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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:59 pm 
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Thanks WWDiesel,

I had never considered water intrusion through the pinion shaft seal, nor forward / reverse forces. This opens an avenue of awakening for me. Thanks.

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 7:18 pm 
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CaptainDean wrote:
layback40 wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Not sure, looks like a short hose with a check valve on the end of it? :?
Maybe someone else can shed some details on it.



Yes, there is a plastic check valve on it.
I think it is some sort of overflow.
It collects dust and becomes inoperative. Allows flow both ways. It is very dusty around it if you drive on dirt roads.
If you drive through water or even in heavy rain, moisture will contaminate the fuel in the tank.

Thanks for the banter guys. There was a lot of water in my tank when I got the Jeep, and there was other evidence of this vehicle being driven in water. That would be a clue. Now my differential has been getting water in it, although it could only be from rain splash during my ownership.

Dean.


If you have driven for some distance & the diff is warm. Driving through water cools the oil & air in the diff & causes air to be sucked in through the breather. If it is wet, water will be drawn in.
I always get seals that have the dust back seal on them. This tends to keep moisture out.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:47 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
If you have driven for some distance & the diff is warm. Driving through water cools the oil & air in the diff & causes air to be sucked in through the breather. If it is wet, water will be drawn in.
I always get seals that have the dust back seal on them. This tends to keep moisture out.

Thanks layback40,

I just gave this same advice to someone about a waterproof wristwatch that he wore in the shower; he was surprised it got fogged up. I should have applied the same principles to the differential. Duh !!

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:53 pm 
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It does happen, I have serviced and / or rebuilt quite a few 4x4's differentials over the years where the hypoid oil had emulsified water mixed in with it making it a little milky looking.
If you play in deep water or mud with your 4x4 rig long enough, sooner or later you are going to get water intrusion mixed in with the oil in the differentials, transfer case, and sometimes the transmission. It can and does happen! Especially on higher mileage vehicles with worn seals.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 10:50 pm 
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When I drained the pumpkin this time, nearly a gallon of milky coffee-colored gear oil came out. I'm glad to have found this and changed the gear oil.

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:27 pm 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Getting ready to get a safety check, which it failed on Monday. Had to fix the license plate light, the left marker light, and the emergency brake not holding while in drive & reverse. ...the emergency brake was more than just an adjustment.

Replaced the emergency brake shoes, but I didn't expect to have to remove the rear axle shafts to do the job. That turned a 2-hour job into an all-day job. It's done now.

Good thing I had to open up the rear end because the gear oil was milky. Found the air vent from the top of the differential was hanging down and letting water in. Drained a whole gallon of fluid, but only took a half gallon to refill it.

Dean.

Passed the safety check even with the rear parking brakes not quite holding. Changing the shoes only made a small improvement, I'll have to shorten the cables to get it right because they seem to have stretched. Doesn't look like there is any adjustment for those two cables.

I don't want to replace the cables, I'd rather put a tension adjuster on each cable to squeeze a small belly in each cable. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:21 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
CaptainDean wrote:
Passed the safety check even with the rear parking brakes not quite holding. Changing the shoes only made a small improvement, I'll have to shorten the cables to get it right because they seem to have stretched. Doesn't look like there is any adjustment for those two cables.

I don't want to replace the cables, I'd rather put a tension adjuster on each cable to squeeze a small belly in each cable. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Dean.


Just thinking about this & the first thing that comes to mind is can you place a cable outer extender in some place? A bit like the adjuster on bike hand brake adjusters. On an old cable brake motor bike.
In the past on a farm bike I have put new nipples on the inner to shorten it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:38 pm 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Passed the safety check even with the rear parking brakes not quite holding. Changing the shoes only made a small improvement, I'll have to shorten the cables to get it right because they seem to have stretched. Doesn't look like there is any adjustment for those two cables.
I don't want to replace the cables, I'd rather put a tension adjuster on each cable to squeeze a small belly in each cable. Do you guys have any suggestions?
Dean.

See this, it may be the answer. I remembered reading this many years ago. Had to search and dig it up; it was posted back in 2007. :SOMBRERO:
Adjusting the E-Brake


Another thought, if the above don't work, since it is a single cable pulling the two cables, you could make a small steel split bushing spacer that you could slip over the single cable where it attaches to the cross bar, then crimp it to the cable to space it out a little thus make the single cable shorter which should allow for more tension on the parking brake shoes. Just make sure the shoes are not too tight, having too much tension applied all the time could burn them up during normal driving.

modified the picture for illustration purposes only.

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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Week's BatteryTray
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Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:49 am 
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Thank you layback40, WWDiesel,

Both of your input was very helpful. I decided to remove the center console storage bin which gave me access to the area. However, Chrysler provided their own gift of routing a HVAC duct exactly over-top the adjustment site.
Image

Heated up a 2" wide putty knife and seared through the plastic duct work in 2 seconds. That opened up the area nicely. I can use duct tape to put it back together afterward. (I'll finally get to use duct tape for it's intended use!)
Image

The parking brakes are adjusted so close that the handle doesn't come up far enough to use the built-in locking method. Tomorrow or so I'll use some bailing wire to hold the mechanism as needed. I'm sure I can get an aluminum spacer to adjust the length of the front (pulling) cable. I'll cut a slit in the spacer, set it around the cable, then smash it back closed.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:40 am 
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Please post results of your repair, it may help some others. :wink:
:POPCORN:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:33 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Please post results of your repair, it may help some others. :wink:
:POPCORN:

Finally finished adjusting the parking brake mechanism between the front seats. The book says to remove the center console just to insert a punch into the brake handle mechanism -- I wasn't about to go through that nightmare. Instead, I accepted WWDiesel's recollection of doing it through the cubby hole compartment in the back of the console. After a two day process, I did manage to figure out the 5-minute method. See below for a series of pictures...

To access the parking brake mechanism, remove the cubby hole compartment. It's only 4 small screws in the bottom of the compartment. This is the view you get which includes the heater & air conditioning duct work to the back seat. Of course Chrysler put it exactly right in the way.
Image

The easy part is heating a 2" wide putty knife with a propane torch to cut (melt) through the HVAC ducting. After heating the knife for 2 minutes, it only took 10 seconds to cut through the ABS ducting.
Image

My first attempt at making a spacer was to use a ready-made 1/4" long x 1/8" inside diameter aluminum spacer. That failed when I cut the spacer then attempted to spread the opening to fit over the cable. It simply broke in half.
So, Act II. I discovered a malleable cable splice for 1/8" cable. It turned out to be the perfect stock to carve into spacers.
Image

Marked it off by guessing the distances for a 1/16" spacer, 1/8" spacer, 3/16" spacer, and 1/4" spacer. Also marked off the bottom of the splice for the purpose of slipping the correct spacer over the cable.
Image

Using a small bench vice, I gently cut the splice into sections but did not cut all the way though. Then turned it up endwise in the vice and cut the bottom off the splice.
Image

These are the pieces I got out on one cable splice. It provided a roughly 1/16", 1/8", 3/16 and 1/4" spacers. I did find that trimming a taper in the open ends of the larger spacers allowed for getting them into place on the parking brake cable.
Image

My first attempt to release the tension on the brake cables was to jam a chunk of Unistrut behind the (Oxen) yoke to give me space to work. That was a pain the the A... ...Donkey. It kept slipping out and making expletives fly around inside the Jeep interior. There has to be a better way.
Image
Image

Suddenly, the sky opened up and a light shined on this old dog. The answer was to cut the hook-part off the Unistrut out and use them as spacers on the two brake cables.
Image

These 2" sections of the sides of the Unistrut simply dropped over top of the brake cables and stopped the Oxen yoke, providing a lot of room to slip a spacer of the parking brake cable. :BANANA: Sorry, this is a little difficult to see in this picture.
Image

It was easy now to slip any size spacer you need. Although this picture shows the 1/8" spacer, I actually used the 1/4" spacer. If necessary, you could put multiple spacers on the parking brake cable.
Image

These are the tools I used to figure out how to turn a 2-day job into a 5-minute job without using hardly any tools. Ha ha.
Image

Just to close out this posting, here is a picture of the ducting taped back together and a plastic pop rivet to secure the end of it.
Image

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Last edited by CaptainDean on Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 5:52 am 
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Great description Dean!
Lots of lateral thinking going on.
Probably could have just used unistrut for the spacer.
Did the ducting go back ok?
I probably would have just used duct tape to hold the duct back in.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:44 pm 
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Great write up and pictures Dean, thanks for sharing, may help some others down the road. :BANANA: :rockon:

Just an observed thought/suggestion for holding the two individual cables stationary going to each of the rear brakes when you pull the ebrake lever up.
:idea: Is there room to use two of the very small micro 4" needle nose vise grip pliers to clamp and hold the two cables stationary in tension while installing the single cable spacer. :D

On all the old VW's, the individual ebrake cables had threaded ends w/nut like a stud so you could adjust the cables as they stretched with age.

4" Micro Vise Grip Needle Nose Pliers:
Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:12 pm 
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Thanks layback40 & WWDiesel,

I will put the HVAC ducting back together today, and post a picture of the unit reassembled. I'll edit my previous post and stick a picture of the finished product at the end.

The VW brake cables do bring back memories; I've had a couple VWs and I did adjust the brake cables. I didn't, however, think about gripping each brake cable with needle nose vice grips; maybe because I only have one pair. Oh well, 20-20 hindsight. :) I would worry about damaging cables that withdraw into their jackets.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:28 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
Great description Dean!
Lots of lateral thinking going on.
Probably could have just used unistrut for the spacer.
Did the ducting go back ok?
I probably would have just used duct tape to hold the duct back in.

Put the HVAC ducting back together today and secured it with duct tape and a plastic rivet. Edited my main posting and put this picture at the end of it all.
Image
Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:45 am 
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Not quite sure what's going on with my engine, but it's getting noisier. Valve tappet noise, although I know it must be hydraulic lash adjusts that are not pumping up. Oil level is good, but the oil is black as soot. My guess is some grunge is coming loose from hidden places and ending up in the lash adjusters. Started with one valve getting noisy, now there are maybe 3. I've stopped driving it.

I'll start by using some engine cleaner and let it fast idle (1200 RPM) for about an hour, then change the oil. I'll do this 3 times to see if it helps.

Any other suggestions out there?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:32 pm 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Not quite sure what's going on with my engine, but it's getting noisier. Valve tappet noise, although I know it must be hydraulic lash adjusts that are not pumping up. Oil level is good, but the oil is black as soot. My guess is some grunge is coming loose from hidden places and ending up in the lash adjusters. Started with one valve getting noisy, now there are maybe 3. I've stopped driving it.

I'll start by using some engine cleaner and let it fast idle (1200 RPM) for about an hour, then change the oil. I'll do this 3 times to see if it helps.

Any other suggestions out there?

Dean.


I guess living on an island, do dont get to take it for long runs.
Sounds like it needs an "Italian Tune". You can google that.
I have a particular drive I can go on pulling my poptop van. About 20 minutes of up hill at about 50 mph, in places WOT.
After that the engine runs smooth & quiet.
How many miles since your last oil change? Getting the engine up to temperature & change the oil & filter fixes all sorts of noises.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:11 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
I guess living on an island, do don't get to take it for long runs.
Sounds like it needs an "Italian Tune". You can google that.
I have a particular drive I can go on pulling my poptop van. About 20 minutes of up hill at about 50 mph, in places WOT.
After that the engine runs smooth & quiet.
How many miles since your last oil change? Getting the engine up to temperature & change the oil & filter fixes all sorts of noises.

Thanks layback40,

It's running good, just noisy. Maybe it's safe, but I worry about taking it too far from home. I'll do the engine cleaning 3 times and see it it helps. After that I may drive it up a few Italian tuneup hills on the volcano and see what happens. It has a pretty easy life with me; maybe that's the problem.

Not sure how many miles since the last oil change, my odometer is still the same with the engine light on for the last 2 years. Probably around 500 miles.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:29 am 
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On YouTube University I watched a Viscous Heater Delete video. It features the WWDiesel Delete Kit. :BANANA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS5Om1S2ng0
The Boeller Family Fun channel did a good job making his video but he didn't say his name.

Another video I watch included the requirement to "Bleed the hydraulic lifters" on another type engine, but it made me wonder if our CRDs need the hydraulic lash adjusters bled before installation. :?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8sGPrPIDDA

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:37 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
On YouTube University I watched a Viscous Heater Delete video. It features the WWDiesel Delete Kit. :BANANA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS5Om1S2ng0
The Boeller Family Fun channel did a good job making his video but he didn't say his name.

Another video I watch included the requirement to "Bleed the hydraulic lifters" on another type engine, but it made me wonder if our CRDs need the hydraulic lash adjusters bled before installation. :?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8sGPrPIDDA

Dean.


I agree with bleeding the hydraulic lash adjusters when first installing. After a minute of running, one would expect the lifters would be fully bled anyway.
Probably like most of us, you hear a noise & think it's bad.
My XJ with a R425 makes plenty of noises at times. I change the oil every 10,000km. I the warmer weather it gets 20w50 oil. After a change it is so much quieter. It has roller Hydraulic lifters & pushrods. The very last non CRD that was in a jeep (export only).

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