LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

P0401 is EGR valve. P0102 is MAF sensor. Both are not related to your engine problem

... #3 has the tip blown off. I thought maybe it was mashed, but looking at it under a jewelers' loupe it seems only blown off, not mashed.

An engine that don't run - Premature component wear due to lack of lubricity - and in some cases the tip of the injector can deform or even discintegrate. When the water hits the injector it produces steam and blows the tip off the injector, If your lucky enough to have it explode and not just blow off and scrape the cylinder wall you can just replace the injector

I sincerely hope it gets no worse than that.

:POPCORN:

I sincerely hope it gets no worse than that. :POPCORN:

I'm planning to yank the engine as soon as I pull the head. #3 piston is way too high in comparison to #2. I should measure equal depth through injector holes 2 & 3.

Welllll, not exactly. In a perfect world, yes, but not this one. The tops of the pistons are not flat. the combustion chamber is recessed in the center of the piston, not the head. When you put the rod through the injector hole of #2, it comes to rest at the floor of the combustion chamber, not the top of the piston. #3 SHOULD be the same, but in this case, there is a valve head in there, making it seem much higher. What damage it's done remains to be seen, but it's possible that the head is more damaged than the piston, since it's considerably softer.
IF you do end up needing to replace pistons, liners, and the like, I would recommend placing a CALL to IDParts, because there are differences between the original pistons, and the currently available OEM ones. They can give you the full scoop.

I haven't used my engine stand for 7 or 8 years. Be good to dust it off and give it some exercise. Anyway, I'll be able to find all the missing bolts and parts that never hit the ground.

How big of pain is it to separate the engine and transmission in the car? Last automatic I did had 32 bolts around the torque converter.

Dean.

Thanks GordnadoCRD,

So, maybe the rod I'm measuring into the cylinder with is really touching a valve? The head of the valve anyway. The part that broke off and allowed the spring to lift the shaft up into the guide, has most likely fallen into the combustion chamber within the piston. If your depth gauge came to rest against the valve head rather than the piston at that point, it would make the illusion of that piston being higher.
Of course there is always the chance that the piston really is higher, but the bottom end of these little monsters is really rather stout. Definitely interested in what you find next!

:POPCORN:

Regardless, the head still has to come off and probably the engine needs to come out too. I may take Tuesday off work to remove the engine.

I've been buying from IDParts, but I will give them a call instead of ordering piston/cylinder sets directly off the web. Thanks for the advise.

Dean.

Author:	CaptainDean [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
flash7210 wrote: P0401 is EGR valve. P0102 is MAF sensor. Both are not related to your engine problem Lately I removed and capped the EGR exhaust path but have not downloaded or installed the Delete EGR patch. Mass Air Flow sensor has triggered the engine light once before but has been good for nearly a thousand miles (2 fill-ups ago).

Author:	CaptainDean [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Saturday morning: Diving in. Drained the coolant (only 1 quart came out) but it looks good. Draining the oil but still waiting for it to drip to a halt. Last guy put some tiny ball valve in-place of the drain plug. I could not turn it (maybe some hidden trick?) so I unscrewed it like an ordinary drain plug. Oil is black as soot but the stream flowing out had a slight red hue through the light that must be the red coolant. Dean.

Author:	CaptainDean [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Finally got the injectors out. Nos 1 & 2 came out easy. #3 was a PITA. #4 was just difficult. I marked each injector with by filing notches on the body. 1 notch for #1, 2 notches for #2,... #1 was black & powdery. #2 was fuel soaked and even leaked up on top of the head. About 1/8 cup pooled atop the head and I noticed it too late. It flowed down into the cylinder soaking the injector and leaving who-knows-what in the cylinder. The head definitely has to come off now. #3 has the tip blown off. I thought maybe it was mashed, but looking at it under a jewelers' loupe it seems only blown off, not mashed. #4 was wet with fuel but clean as brand new, no soot. I will take these injectors to the Jeep dealer and have them tested. It's 3 PM now so I won't get the head off today. So far I have not found anything that explains the missing coolant. The oil is in two white opaque PTFE jugs; hopefully it will stratify into layers overnight and show me a layer of coolant. At this point I have not found anything to justify pulling the engine. However, tomorrow is another day. Dean.

Author:	CaptainDean [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Finished the day at 6 PM by getting as far as exposing the timing belt. Rotated the crank until the cam sprockets are lined up on the marks. The fuel pump also aligned up. So far, so good. See what happens when I put the cam timing pins in tomorrow. Beer-thirty, Dean.

Author:	turblediesel [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Drain valve is a Fumoto. Trick is to lift tiny lever above lock and turn. Take a look at it now that it's out and it'll make sense. Don't really need the pins for disassembly. Do turn the crank to 90° past TDC and the valves can't reach the pistons, cams can be turned safely.

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Author:	CaptainDean [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
CaptainDean wrote: ... #3 has the tip blown off. I thought maybe it was mashed, but looking at it under a jewelers' loupe it seems only blown off, not mashed. Do I recall accurately that the tip blowing off of an injector is [typically] caused by water in the fuel? Please refresh me on this problem... Dean.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Quote: An engine that don't run - Premature component wear due to lack of lubricity - and in some cases the tip of the injector can deform or even discintegrate. When the water hits the injector it produces steam and blows the tip off the injector, If your lucky enough to have it explode and not just blow off and scrape the cylinder wall you can just replace the injector Edit: https://oregonfuelinjection.com/shop/jeep-diesel/2005-2006-2-8-l-jeep-liberty-diesel/rx-cr-inj-05-06-jeep-liberty/

Author:	WWDiesel [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
This really drives home the point of having very good primary & secondary filtration along with a clear water separation bowl like some have installed!

Author:	CaptainDean [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Thanks GordnadoCRD and WWDiesel, I thought I had read that around here. Thanks for the link to an inexpensive injector. I hope to get the head off today. There was no grit in the oil so I am not expecting to take the engine out. Yet. Dean.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
I sincerely hope it gets no worse than that.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
GordnadoCRD wrote: I sincerely hope it gets no worse than that. XX2

Author:	CaptainDean [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
GordnadoCRD wrote: I sincerely hope it gets no worse than that. Thanks for the good wishes, BUT... Took the valve cover assembly off today and found the following... One valve sticking higher than the others And just the valves for cylinder #3, one exhaust valve way too high. I have poked a thin rod down each cylinder. #1 at bottom #2 at top of stroke #3 up against head #4 at bottom Oy vey. Dean.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
That's not good news!!! Signs of a dropped valve.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Yeah. That's definitely sore-thumbish. Ok then. Here's hoping that the engine won't need to come out. Whatever head goes back on, just be sure it's sound, contact surface true, and all the valves are new.

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Author:	CaptainDean [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
I'm planning to yank the engine as soon as I pull the head. #3 piston is way too high in comparison to #2. I should measure equal depth through injector holes 2 & 3. I haven't used my engine stand for 7 or 8 years. Be good to dust it off and give it some exercise. Anyway, I'll be able to find all the missing bolts and parts that never hit the ground. How big of pain is it to separate the engine and transmission in the car? Last automatic I did had 32 bolts around the torque converter. Dean.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
CaptainDean wrote: I'm planning to yank the engine as soon as I pull the head. #3 piston is way too high in comparison to #2. I should measure equal depth through injector holes 2 & 3. Welllll, not exactly. In a perfect world, yes, but not this one. The tops of the pistons are not flat. the combustion chamber is recessed in the center of the piston, not the head. When you put the rod through the injector hole of #2, it comes to rest at the floor of the combustion chamber, not the top of the piston. #3 SHOULD be the same, but in this case, there is a valve head in there, making it seem much higher. What damage it's done remains to be seen, but it's possible that the head is more damaged than the piston, since it's considerably softer. IF you do end up needing to replace pistons, liners, and the like, I would recommend placing a CALL to IDParts, because there are differences between the original pistons, and the currently available OEM ones. They can give you the full scoop. I haven't used my engine stand for 7 or 8 years. Be good to dust it off and give it some exercise. Anyway, I'll be able to find all the missing bolts and parts that never hit the ground. How big of pain is it to separate the engine and transmission in the car? Last automatic I did had 32 bolts around the torque converter. Dean.

Author:	CaptainDean [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Thanks GordnadoCRD, So, maybe the rod I'm measuring into the cylinder with is really touching a valve? Regardless, the head still has to come off and probably the engine needs to come out too. I may take Tuesday off work to remove the engine. I've been buying from IDParts, but I will give them a call instead of ordering piston/cylinder sets directly off the web. Thanks for the advise. Dean.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
CaptainDean wrote: Thanks GordnadoCRD, So, maybe the rod I'm measuring into the cylinder with is really touching a valve? The head of the valve anyway. The part that broke off and allowed the spring to lift the shaft up into the guide, has most likely fallen into the combustion chamber within the piston. If your depth gauge came to rest against the valve head rather than the piston at that point, it would make the illusion of that piston being higher. Of course there is always the chance that the piston really is higher, but the bottom end of these little monsters is really rather stout. Definitely interested in what you find next! Regardless, the head still has to come off and probably the engine needs to come out too. I may take Tuesday off work to remove the engine. I've been buying from IDParts, but I will give them a call instead of ordering piston/cylinder sets directly off the web. Thanks for the advise. Dean.

Author:	CaptainDean [ Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Pulled the head today and hope to get the engine out too. Maybe more like Thursday. In the meantime, here are some pictures... Underside of head Top of piston #3 Walls of cylinder #3 Dean.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
Oh No! [Edit] Well, that definitely explains the injector.. You are now going past my level of personal experience with this particular engine. If you can, Please take lots of pics as you go. A library of reference material could prove helpful to someone in the future. Also there are some in here that have been there, done that. Mountainman comes to mind. There are others, but I can't remember all their names. At least this is a good chance to fix the trans pump problem, and get a good torque converter in there so you can flash up the tune in the future without shredding the original TC as commonly happens.