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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:53 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
In this picture, I had to build up the gravel under the wheels while digging a hole for the rock to fall into as I backed up.
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Give a whole new meaning to "Rock Krawler"! :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Location: Alaska
CaptainDean wrote:
Payday. Just ordered a complete set of hydraulic lash adjusters. $345 qualifies for free shipping but only on contiguous 48 states. It amazes me how many companies don't recognize Alaska and Hawaii as US states, even when we select United States Postal Service for shipping method -- which is the same price to the 48 states and Alaska & Hawaii.

Dean.

I'm amazed at how many people think Alaska is an island or foreign country.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:18 pm 
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turblediesel wrote:
I'm amazed at how many people think Alaska is an island or foreign country.

I hear your disgust of the American public education system. We could go on and on about this but we'd have to change the name of the forum.

Today I put the head and overhead cam assembly on the block. Connected my mighty transfer pump to a bucket of water and OxyClean and pumped it through the lubrication system. The block is already pretty clean but the head and overhead valve assembly have not been cleaned as much. The soapy water is coming our light gray. I'll let it sit overnight and pump it through again tomorrow afternoon.

To finish, I'll pump clean water then diesel through the system and finish with some surplus, new transmission fluid. Finally, I will disassemble the engine and remove the crankshaft and rinse everything completely. It should be entirely clean by then. Since the oil galley plugs were so easy to remove and reinstall, I'll get a new set and blow out all the galleys as well.

This is all quite unorthodox, but I think the final outcome will be successful. It will be interesting to see everything all disassembled again.

I have new bearings for the crankshaft mains, crankshaft rods, wrist pin bushings and cam bearings. Also a new set of hydraulic lash adjusters. (I've had the old set in during the flushing.)

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Location: Australia
Have you considered a soak with biodiesel? Its a common way to clean out crud from inlet manifolds.
I get very uncomfortable using caustic based aqueous cleaning solutions on anything alloy.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:15 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
Have you considered a soak with biodiesel? Its a common way to clean out crud from inlet manifolds.
I get very uncomfortable using caustic based aqueous cleaning solutions on anything alloy.

It's done now. I called in well today and stayed home to finish the cleaning job. The engine is apart with the exception of the crankshaft. This weekend I'll yank the crank and get started on the reassembly.

[Edit] After thinking about biodiesel, I may clean the *other 2006 CRD* engine with biodiesel. It would be good to have a new experience. Thanks layback40 !

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:13 am 
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Attempted to remove the crankshaft this weekend. Pulled off the front gears and rear seal & bearing support. Made a puller to extract the crankshaft but to no avail. The weather was cool today so the crank did not budge - the block is cool and retracted around the remaining crankshaft bearing supports.

Puller installed on back end of engine.
Image

Close up of inside of puller
Image

Taking Tuesday and Wednesday off to hopefully extract the crankshaft, replace the bearings and reinstall it. I'm planning to get a sheet of shiny insulation to make a another condensing solar reflector. Take another stab at heating the block from the outside while extracting the crankshaft on the inside.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:50 am 
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I was not looking forward to doing this job again, but I finally got started and finished. The new crankshaft bearings are installed and the crankshaft re-installed. Whew. I'm glad a took a couple days off work to get ahead. It took me all day Tuesday to get the crankshaft out, and all day Wednesday to get the crankshaft back in. Double whew. A smart choice to make is to have a large puller available to pull the crankshaft out. It will pull it out regardless of all the kicking and screaming from the crankshaft.

The hardest part of re-installing the crankshaft is the last 1/8". The crankshaft protrudes through the front of block by 1/8" so it's tough to find or make a puller to do the final draw down. I had to resort to using a 10-lb sledge (no handle) and a brass drift to drive the crankshaft the final 1/8".

The front-most bearing support was misaligned by about 1/64th inch in rotation but that did not matter. The bores in the bearing supports are slightly bigger to allow for such a misalignment.

Here are some things that I noticed along the way...

This drawing was a little confusing to me because they labeled the upper and lower halves of the bearing differently. That made me wonder if they were actually different. ...they are not different. Making top and bottom alike just makes manufacturing easier and assembly fault-free.
Image

This is a very helpful drawing in the manual as it helps the mechanic decide which side is UP on the bearing support halves. The bore for the alignment pin (#4) is a little too big up to the shoulder. This allows for some slight misalignment, which is helpful. Perfect alignment is a PITA. The smaller bore beyond the shoulder is smaller so it stops the alignment pin at the correct depth.
Image

This is a precautionary note about installing new crankshaft supports.
Image

This is a picture of the bearing support assembly in totale. Notice that the oil passages (the two angled fat parts in the casting) are not aligned 180° from each other. If you get the bearing support in backwards, the oil passage will not deliver oil to the bearing and cause engine failure. Also, if you assemble the bearing support with the oil passages actually 180° the oil passages will not align to the engine, nor within the bearing support.
Image

Take notice in the manual that this image is WRONG. The image shows a square casting void next to a round casting void. If assembled this way, the bearings will not get oil, nor will the balance shaft assembly below the crankshaft.
Image

This is the CORRECT way to mate the bearing support halves. Notice that the square voids are on one side and the round voids are on the other side.
Image

With the bearing support assemblies mated correctly the oil passages are aligned behind the bearing. This is the key to delivering oil to the bearing, and also to the balance assembly below the crankshaft.
Image

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Last edited by CaptainDean on Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:34 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Interesting info, Dean. Thank You!
Happy Independence Day, by the way.
:POPCORN:

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Great post and pictures!
Thanks for posting, hope I never have to go into a bottom end.
But if I do
Happy 4th to all my Jeep friends

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
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2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
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GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:28 pm 
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The crankshaft is installed and the front and back of the block assembled.

Rear main seal went together good and crankshaft end play is in tolerance (0.003"-0.011") but on the tight side at 0.004". (Yay) Found that I had placed one of the thrust bushing in backward on the last assembly. That is turned around now.

Front seal also went together good and did not find any improperly installed parts from last time.

When I took the engine apart this time, one of the reasons was I heard a knock. The main and rod bearings were in excellent shape and showed no signs of wearing through the gray (Babbitt?) surface. Now I have found the wrist pin bushings are severely worn down to the brass interior. I could feel the slop and could rock the piston slightly on the longitudinal axis of the wrist pin. Still practicing with the internal micrometer measurements and not getting repeatable readings yet. There should only be a few ten-thousandths difference between wrist pin and bushing. I'll post accurate measurements later when I gain better expertise.

The wrist pins will not go through the new bushings so I have something to figure out first. I'll take the all the parts to the machinist on Monday to get the old ones pressed out. May not install the new ones yet.

Image

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:25 pm 
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I remember doing up a motor bike years ago & had to have the wrist pin bushings reamed to fit. It looks like there is some sort of expansion joint in the old bush.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:04 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
I remember doing up a motor bike years ago & had to have the wrist pin bushings reamed to fit. It looks like there is some sort of expansion joint in the old bush.

Thanks layback40,

I'll consider this option when I see the machinist. The new bushings have the same joint. It seems to be a connection of both ends of flat stock to make the bushing.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:57 am 
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layback40 wrote:
I remember doing up a motor bike years ago & had to have the wrist pin bushings reamed to fit. It looks like there is some sort of expansion joint in the old bush.

Took all four pistons, wrist pins and rods, plus new bushings to the machinist today. He says the normal process is to hone the interior of the bushing to fit the pin.

I asked if he can knurl the bore in the piston for the wrist pin just to tighten-up the fit by a few ten thousandths but he doesn't have the tool. After a day of thought, I discovered 1" pipe diameter is only 1-tenth larger than the wrist pin. I should be able to grind that much off a 1" pipe nipple thread OD and maul the surface with the threads. It only needs 2 or 3 ten-thousandths to tighten up. Slightly more than a mark from the threads should do the trick.

Wrist pin OD is 1.2590" to 1.260". 1" pipe OD is 1.37".

I can experiment on the wrecked piston from the original breakdown to see if it works. Pictures tomorrow...

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:50 am 
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It's been 3 weeks since I took the pistons, rods, wrist pins & new bushings to the machinist with no word from him. I called and he said he had to make a tool to press the new wrist pin bushings into the rods. Since they are tapered at the top (thinner) they tend to twist a little while going in. His tooling supplier said he doesn't carry that tool, so most machinist have to make their own installing jig that holds the bushing from turning while pressing them in. His tool uses a set screw to prevent the bushing from rotating.

He has finished making his jig and hopes to finish the job today. (I've heard that before from him) "Today" usually means a week.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:54 pm 
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It's been 6 weeks now since I took the pistons, wrist pins, rods and new rod bushings to the machinist. Today he says he had to order a new bit for his milling machine and it came in Wednesday.

He is a grossly obese man with obesity related health problems, but his machine work is excellent. I always wonder whether he will pass away before he finishes each job.

I am hoping to get these parts back next week. ....hmmmm.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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