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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:04 am 
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Location: Green Cove Springs FL
With all the heat you've applied to the flexplate you will probably need to replace the rear main seal.
Just be careful when doing so as there are a couple of thrust washers in there also that have to be put back in exactly the way they came out.
Once you get the flexplate off you will find a adapter plate that will need to be removed. Then you can remove the rear main bearing support which holds the seal and thrust washers.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:52 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
With all the heat you've applied to the flexplate you will probably need to replace the rear main seal. Just be careful when doing so as there are a couple of thrust washers in there also that have to be put back in exactly the way they came out. Once you get the flexplate off you will find a adapter plate that will need to be removed. Then you can remove the rear main bearing support which holds the seal and thrust washers.

I am now planning to replace nearly all the bearings and seals in the engine. It spins very nicely on the main bearings. Balancing that against the extreme effort to change the main bearings, I will not change them.

However, I will change the individual rod crank bearings, the piston wrist pin bearings, and the rings on 1, 2, x, 4. #3 I will replace the injector, sleeve, piston, rings, rod and bearings since it was the traumatized cylinder. The head will get rebuilt by the automotive machine shop.

Certainly, the rear main and front main seals will also get changed. While I'm at it, I'll change the oil pump. It's practically new at 96000, but the oil has had a lot of black carbon blow by which has probably chewed away at it.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:15 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
OUCH
Nothing like buying a brand new engine and getting the experience and knowledge of the complete internal intricacies as a bonus :frankie:

You realize this means whenever I have to address such issues with mine :ALONE: You will be explaining all those things to me... :goink:

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35 am 
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Is there a model number to the engines we have? I 'googled' VM Motori 2.8L and got a few responses. One is D704TE2 which looks similar.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4605
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
R425

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:15 am 
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Is there a model number to the engines we have?
flash7210 wrote:
R425

Thanks flash7210,

That is probably news to about half of us.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
flash7210 wrote:
R425

Actually it's R428

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4605
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
GordnadoCRD wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
R425

Actually it's R428

Oops, typo :oops:

Yes R428

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Yeah, no worries. That's usually why I have so many edits in my posts. I don't catch my errors until it gets submitted so I go back and edit the errors.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am
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Got the damaged sleeve out today. It was far easier than suspected. When a task has a $450 tool required, I expect the job to be only easy with the expensive tool. Ha ha, not so! :P I removed it with an $8 brass punch. :goink:

Image

Image

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:28 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Got the damaged sleeve out today. It was far easier than suspected. When a task has a $450 tool required, I expect the job to be only easy with the expensive tool. Ha ha, not so! :P I removed it with an $8 brass punch. :goink:
Dean.

Great! Hard to beat good old brass punches and hammers! :BANANA:
Did it incur any block damage?

_________________
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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:49 pm 
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I cannot see or feel any block damage. I'll take it to the local machinist on Monday and get his opinion.

Today I'll attack the flex plate bolts with an oxyacetylene torch heating the heads red hot and quenching. Also cleaning up the removed parts and dissembling the one bad piston/rod.

Question:
Where can I buy a single connecting rod? IDParts only sells in sets; that's an extra $150 that I don't need to spend.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 4916
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CaptainDean wrote:
I cannot see or feel any block damage. I'll take it to the local machinist on Monday and get his opinion.
Today I'll attack the flex plate bolts with an oxyacetylene torch heating the heads red hot and quenching. Also cleaning up the removed parts and dissembling the one bad piston/rod.
Question:
Where can I buy a single connecting rod? IDParts only sells in sets; that's an extra $150 that I don't need to spend.

Go here:> http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/
VM DIESEL SPECIALIST LTD in England
make sure you have the full engine number. VIN is of no use to them!

Be sure and review this LOST thread! There are different pistons/weights and they are NOT interchangeable!
There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor.

> viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83326

_________________
Proud Supporting Vendor of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:39 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
If you have an oxyacetylene set, try centering the flame (slightly carburizing) on the center of the bolt head, and when it begins to glow, quickly quench the head of the bolt. When heated the bolt expansion cannot push out against the metal it's threaded into, so it expands lengthwise.

Thanks GordnadoCRD,

I love it when a suggested process works. I heated the bolt heads with an oxyacetylene torch until the head lightly glowed red, then quenched with about a couple cups of water. It worked perfectly. This is a new arrow in my quiver.

I had a 3' section of 1" pipe and added a PVC elbow, close nipple, and cap. It held about 2 cups. I dribbled the water until empty to quench the bolt heads. It worked perfectly. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Image

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am
Posts: 384
flash7210 wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
R425

Actually it's R428

Oops, typo :oops:
Yes R428

Visited the VM Diesel Specialist website. The first thing I noticed was the list of engines in Jeeps.
Image

I thought the Liberty was in the Cherokee class?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:19 am 
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Posts: 384
WWDiesel wrote:
Go here: http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/
VM DIESEL SPECIALIST LTD in England. Make sure you have the full engine number. VIN is of no use to them!

Be sure and review this LOST thread! There are different pistons/weights and they are NOT interchangeable! There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor.
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83326

Thanks WWDiesel,

Rats, ignorance was bliss for a while. Now I'm concerned. It sounded like nothingbutchrysler ended up buying another engine just to get his original early model 2.8L running again.

Did I understand correctly that the Sleeve/Piston/Ring set will fit both the old and new style engines? Although it is more expensive, it may be the only way to go.

How much difference in weight is there between the old style piston & new style piston? Can an engine have one new style with 3 old style pistons? Does the engine run unbalanced? Can they be changed in opposing pairs?

I did send a query into VM Diesel Specialists. Find out what sort of response I get.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4605
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Check eBay for a used piston.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 5 volt bosch glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, JBA upper arms, 235-85-16 tires.
Still love it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 4916
Location: Central GA
CaptainDean wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Go here: http://www.vmdieselspecialist.com/
VM DIESEL SPECIALIST LTD in England. Make sure you have the full engine number. VIN is of no use to them!
Be sure and review this LOST thread! There are different pistons/weights and they are NOT interchangeable! There are 2 different types of piston/rings used on this motor.
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83326

Thanks WWDiesel,
Rats, ignorance was bliss for a while. Now I'm concerned. It sounded like nothingbutchrysler ended up buying another engine just to get his original early model 2.8L running again.
Did I understand correctly that the Sleeve/Piston/Ring set will fit both the old and new style engines? Although it is more expensive, it may be the only way to go.
How much difference in weight is there between the old style piston & new style piston? Can an engine have one new style with 3 old style pistons? Does the engine run unbalanced? Can they be changed in opposing pairs?
I did send a query into VM Diesel Specialists. Find out what sort of response I get.
Dean.

My understanding either size piston/sleeve will fit, but the pistons are different weights and cannot be mixed. According to the thread, the weight is stamped on the underside of the piston? And some pistons can have different piston rings and / or groove sizes so it gets complicated when trying to replace just one piston & sleeve assembly! :roll: Mountainman I believe has the most experience in this area and would be a good one to ask for advice.

Did you read through the whole thread, it may answer some of your questions? viewtopic.php?f=98&t=83326

:SOMBRERO:

_________________
Proud Supporting Vendor of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:26 am 
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Loaded up the engine (block, head, cams assembly, removed sleeve and piston) to take to the machinist tomorrow.

I queried IDParts and they responded asking about the ring gap (0.095" or 0.125"). Queried VM Diesel Specialist and they responded with a series of prices, plus a graph of the exchange rate between American $ and British £. (I inserted the $ amounts) Shipping by weight is extra.

  • 1 Injector- for this we will need the 10 digit number from the black plastic cap.
  • 1 connecting rod- good used connecting rod- £30.00 ($40.21)
  • 1 piston with rings- £173.00 ($231.89) / cylinder sleeve- £44.20 ($59.25) / seal and shims kit for cylinder sleeve- £13.33 ($17.87).
  • 1 complete engine gasket set- £156.00 ($219.10). This does not include the crankshaft oil seals. Front oil seal is £7.70 ($10.32) and the rear oil seal is £31.99 ($42.88).
  • 1 complete crankshaft bearing set (main and rod journal, piston rod bearings)- Front main bearing- £12.22 x1 ($16.36), centre main bearings- £9.80 ($13.14) each
  • x3, Rear main bearing- £29.55 ($39.61), con rod bearing are £9.72 ($13.03) each, little end bushes are £7.33 ($9.83) each. The crankshaft main bearing are available separately. We can also supply the gaskets individually as sometimes a complete engine gasket kit is never always required.
  • 1 complete set of piston pins- we have as good as new ones for £10 ($13.40) each.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:07 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Loaded up the engine (block, head, cams assembly, removed sleeve and piston) to take to the machinist tomorrow.

Dropped of the head and cam assembly at the machinist. He did not seem apprehensive about the head damage. I may not be out of the woods yet, but certainly nearing the edge of the woods. He will let me know how many valves and guides I need to order.

This is a big relief knowing I should not have to buy a new head. He did not find any damage to the block casting. Clearly the sleeve took the brunt of the bi-hydrogen mono-oxide explosion.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Last edited by CaptainDean on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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