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Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
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Author:  CaptainDean [ Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Got this Liberty Oct 1 and have fixed a lot, but still have a clinking and clanking noise. Today I took it to a professional mechanic -- a reputable shop where we take the company vehicles.

This noise clinks and clanks at idle and may continue through the gears but there are so many other noises I can't tell. It seems to come from the front-right side of the vehicle. Tire noise, turbo noise, 3rd member spindle or transfer case howl, leaky exhaust noise all add into the mix. I'm driving a concert. This vehicle must have been abused in the past and I'm bringing it back into shape.

After the test drive, the mechanic said, "...possibly a failed bearing in the front 3rd member. It also seems to drive like it's in All Wheel Drive all the time..."

I've heard of All Wheel Drive and I know it's not the same as 4WD, but I don't know how the two differ.

Turbo noise: Boot from air cleaner to turbo intake is open on the bottom at the turbo. It allows turbo whine to escape as well as some blow-by smell. I can fix that.

Leaky exhaust noise: It may be a large leak, but also an exhaust manifold leak. I can hear the putt-putt-putt of the exhaust under the hood, but also the 'tappet-style noise' only on acceleration. I can fix that too.

The 3rd member whine: I first thought "rear end 'set up' will take care of that", but now maybe it's the spindle bearings.

Clinking and clanking: I thought probably the front CV shaft. I felt the parts throughout the axle assembly and they rattle some, but there is no 'clunk-clunk' that is typically associated with a failing CV joint. Mechanic is thinking it might be inside the 3rd member.

I'll leave the Liberty with him on Thursday and see what he finds on the rack.

Dean.

Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

The front end clinking sound is most likely a worn out front driveshaft joint. Not CV axle.

Rear end gear whine is fairly common.
Remove the rear diff cover and inspect all the gears and bearings. If there is no abnormal wear, put the cover back on and fill it up with fresh gear oil.

All wheel drive is just like 4wd except you can use it on pavement.
If you think it’s stuck in AWD (a.k.a. “full-time” 4wd), check the transfer case shift linkage.
An easy test is to get all four wheels off the ground, start up the engine, make sure the transfer case lever is in 2wd, then put the transmission in D. If the front wheels are spinning along with the rear, it’s stuck in one of the 4wd positions.

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Thanks flash7210,

I've looked at the front axle assemblies and there is a 6" collar about an inch away from the 3rd member. Is this the axle joint? ...or is it inside the front pumpkin? The clinking & clanking sounds like two nuts bouncing around in a vibrating piece of tailpipe material.

I can live with rear end noise. Thanks.

AWD must have a clutch(s) engaged instead of actual gears? Adjusting the linkage is what I am hoping for.

Dean.

Author:  flash7210 [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Look at the whole front driveshaft. There is a joint where it connects to the transfer case and a joint where it connects to the front diff.

In this case, the transfer case is all gears. No clutches.
Some transfer cases do use clutches.

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Broke down on the way to work this morning with catastrophic and sudden failure. Big dark gray smoke and huge clanking/banging from inside the engine. Only runs on two cylinders. Nothing leaking on the ground.

Checked the coolant yesterday and it was normal, as usual -- suddenly the coolant tank is empty. Oil is real full but not milky. Probably hasn't run long enough to get mixed up. Evidence of water through the turbo - intercooler - intake.

I'm thinking a blown head gasket at best, a hole in a piston or a thrown rod at worst. Had only driven 4 miles on surface streets when it happened.

I'll have to do a compression test: How do I crank this engine without pumping fuel?

Dean.

Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

There is a fuse specific to the injectors. IIRC it is a 25A. Pull that and you can crank it all you want with no fuel injected.

I can't picture how you have water in the turbo. You have intake air, motor oil, and exhaust flowing through it. Should not be possible for water to get in there.

/////////////You mentioned before that you had a hole in the rubber intake hose between the filter box and turbo. PLEASE tell me you waited for the new one to be installed before driving it around....\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

CaptainDean wrote:
Broke down on the way to work this morning with catastrophic and sudden failure. Big dark gray smoke and huge clanking/banging from inside the engine. Only runs on two cylinders. Nothing leaking on the ground.
Checked the coolant yesterday and it was normal, as usual -- suddenly the coolant tank is empty. Oil is real full but not milky. Probably hasn't run long enough to get mixed up. Evidence of water through the turbo - intercooler - intake.
I'm thinking a blown head gasket at best, a hole in a piston or a thrown rod at worst. Had only driven 4 miles on surface streets when it happened.
I'll have to do a compression test: How do I crank this engine without pumping fuel?
Dean.

Sorry to hear that man!!!!

to spin engine over, jumper pins #30 to #87 at starter relay plugin to energize starter motor; key off!

Image

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

I see there are a lot of diesel compression testers, which one is right for the 2.8l CRD?

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

GordnadoCRD wrote:
I can't picture how you have water in the turbo. You have intake air, motor oil, and exhaust flowing through it. Should not be possible for water to get in there.

Something is suddenly and catastrophically wrong, so all the rules of a normal engine theory are out the window.

Coolant is missing from the radiator tank and there are beads of water at the intake of the engine. There is also an abundance of liquid in the crankcase. Water (coolant) must have gotten there via the blow-by path.

Therefore, to get coolant into the oil, a path through (the head gasket, a crack/break in the cooling jacket or head, or ...) would allow passage.

Dean.

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

I'm going to bypass the compression test. I already know something terrible has gone wrong -- the compression tester would merely tell me the same and cost me an extra $100.

So, it's just time to tear into the beast and find the failure(s).

Dean.

Author:  WWDiesel [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Bummer! :cry:
Keep us posted as to what you find!

Author:  CaptainDean [ Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

WWDiesel wrote:
Bummer! :cry: Keep us posted as to what you find!

Will do, I'll post milestones here.

Dean.

Author:  CaptainDean [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Beginning of questions...

Can the oil pan be removed with the engine in the vehicle? I suspect the answer is 'no'.

If I have to replace a cylinder sleeve, does that have to be done by a machinist, or can it be replaced with mechanic tools? I see it has shims to align it with the surface of the block.

Dean.

Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

CaptainDean wrote:
GordnadoCRD wrote:
I can't picture how you have water in the turbo. You have intake air, motor oil, and exhaust flowing through it. Should not be possible for water to get in there.

Something is suddenly and catastrophically wrong, so all the rules of a normal engine theory are out the window.

Coolant is missing from the radiator tank and there are beads of water at the intake of the engine. There is also an abundance of liquid in the crankcase. Water (coolant) must have gotten there via the blow-by path.

Therefore, to get coolant into the oil, a path through (the head gasket, a crack/break in the cooling jacket or head, or ...) would allow passage.

Dean.

To get that much fluid into the engine oil that fast, it has to be head gasket and/or head and/or cylinder liner.
Whatever it ends up being, that's a heck of a gut-punch.
Hang in there and keep us posted.

Author:  WWDiesel [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

CaptainDean wrote:
Beginning of questions...
Can the oil pan be removed with the engine in the vehicle? I suspect the answer is 'no'.
If I have to replace a cylinder sleeve, does that have to be done by a machinist, or can it be replaced with mechanic tools? I see it has shims to align it with the surface of the block.
Dean.

You are right, the answer is "NO" unless you drop the front cradle assembly! Most just pull engine! :roll:
I believe the FSM online covers the changing of a cylinder liner, but you are correct, there are shims that set the height of the liner in the block. Very important for head gasket seal!
There are several on LOST who have done complete rebuilds of these engines, hopefully they can answer your questions when the time comes once you know what you are up against.... :wink:

Author:  CaptainDean [ Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

Thanks GordnadoCRD and WWDiesel,

I will start digging into the beast this weekend.

Dean.

Author:  CaptainDean [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

I've been following the Big Island Jeep Club on Facebook since purchasing my Liberty, but their ads always display CJ type Jeeps. Today I send a message to them and used a onomatopoeia word that describes the sound in the engine better than my previous "clanging/banging" description. The better word is "kabang kabang kabang kabang kabang kabang..."

I got that from the character "Sheldon" in the new TV series "Young Sheldon" who used that word in the last episode. He is a way-too-young scientist engaging the minister in spirited conversation whom said "...in the beginning was the word...". Young Sheldon believes in the Big Bang and said, "...was the word Kabang?"

Dean.

Author:  GordnadoCRD [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

What was the progression? Did it make this sound when you first started it up? How did it progress? was it the same all during the miles you drove it, or did it start light and get worse? I'm assuming the running on 2 cylinders part wasn't present when you started driving it. Did they quit immediately after a single instant event, or what?

Author:  CaptainDean [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

GordnadoCRD wrote:
Did it make this sound when you first started it up? How did it progress? was it the same all during the miles you drove it, or did it start light and get worse? I'm assuming the running on 2 cylinders part wasn't present when you started driving it. Did they quit immediately after a single instant event, or what?

If it sounded like that upon startup, I would not have driven it; the Jeep drove normally for the first 3 miles. While slowing from 35 MPH for a stoplight, suddenly started hearing a bad noise (kabang kabang kabang...) and thick smoke behind the vehicle. Made it around the corner but could not get to the first driveway. Called a tow truck to get back home. Engine codes are P0401 and P0102.

Tomorrow I'll start pulling it apart. I should get the head off. I am expecting to find too many piston tops at TDC. Probably get the engine & trans out by end of Sunday.

Dean.

Author:  flash7210 [ Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

P0401 is EGR valve
P0102 is MAF sensor

Both are not related to your engine problem

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