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 Post subject: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Starting V8 SFA KJ project. Wondering if anyone knows of anyone who has done anything like this before?


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:26 pm 
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KJWildman’s Project Thunderstruck:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=53462

There is probably a reason he calls it the “never ending V8 swap” but I’m sure there is a lot of helpful info in these 29 pages! Not sure if it’s done yet.

There are a few successful SFA builds in the SFA section, notably by TJKJ2002 and USAFcop. A couple of others as well. Most begin but do not finish their projects because it is a lot more complicated and expensive than they expect at the front end. There’s at least one SFA KK that was built with long arms that was built by an off-road company in MI. I don’t remember the name of the thread author.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=73

I am not aware of any V8 SFA builds. If you succeed you may be the first.

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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:44 pm 
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3 confirmed V8 swapped KJ's,2 posted and bailed to never be heard from again with no actual proof of running.

The 3rd was done in complete secrecy,I know who built it,what was used,but the builder will not say much past that but it was hinted it's in one of the uber rich countries ijn the middle east.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:39 am 
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I’m a metal fabricator so I will be making a lot of parts my self. I’m going to start with the engine / trans swap then go from there. I will also be posting pics and updates every so often.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:05 pm 
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TheBigE wrote:
I’m a metal fabricator so I will be making a lot of parts my self. I’m going to start with the engine / trans swap then go from there. I will also be posting pics and updates every so often.

Do the SFA 1st,if you can handle that the V8 will be much easier.

Last quote I got for a V8 in the KJ was $36,000 which would have been $80,000 if it was not SFA already.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:46 pm 
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TheBigE wrote:
I’m a metal fabricator so I will be making a lot of parts my self. I’m going to start with the engine / trans swap then go from there. I will also be posting pics and updates every so often.



Lots more to it than being a great fabricator
lots of wiring issues etc

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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:28 pm 
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+1 on doing the SFA swap first. It will help clear up room that the steering rack and IFS currently occupy.

As for the engine swap itself.... get your donor engine with as much extra stuff as it takes to make it run happily on your shop floor.

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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:48 pm 
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My plan is to start the SFA first. The wiring is going to be the hardest part for me. I’m putting in a carbureted 350 to make the wiring easier.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:01 pm 
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TheBigE wrote:
My plan is to start the SFA first. The wiring is going to be the hardest part for me. I’m putting in a "carbureted 350" to make the wiring easier.

100% illegal and will actually make the wiring harder if you want anything to work without the PCM/TCM/BCM/SRS controller/ABS module(if equipped).


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:25 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
TheBigE wrote:
My plan is to start the SFA first. The wiring is going to be the hardest part for me. I’m putting in a "carbureted 350" to make the wiring easier.

100% illegal and will actually make the wiring harder if you want anything to work without the PCM/TCM/BCM/SRS controller/ABS module(if equipped).


Illegal on the Federal or state level?


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm 
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snoopydance wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
TheBigE wrote:
My plan is to start the SFA first. The wiring is going to be the hardest part for me. I’m putting in a "carbureted 350" to make the wiring easier.

100% illegal and will actually make the wiring harder if you want anything to work without the PCM/TCM/BCM/SRS controller/ABS module(if equipped).


Illegal on the Federal or state level?

Both.

Just because your area does not have emission testing or inspections does not mean it's not legal to do anything you want.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:43 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
snoopydance wrote:

Illegal on the Federal or state level?

Both.

Just because your area does not have emission testing or inspections does not mean it's not legal to do anything you want.


While I agree with this:

Quote:
Just because your area does not have emission testing or inspections does not mean it's not legal to do anything you want.


Actually, what he is considering may or may not be legal. Directly from the EPA ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET:

"EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is
removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine
switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA
(Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test
Procedure would be necessary to make this determination. "

While it would be cost prohibitive and the burden of testing would be on the OP (and they would not be able to sell it in that configuration without EPA certification), it is not illegal unless the end result is higher emissions than the OEM configuration is certified for. The testing for this would be at the owner's expense, and probably quite extensive.

As for the state level:

"B. State Laws Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. "

This would depend on your state. I live in Maine which does not have laws governing engine swaps. Those living in Cumberland County are required to complete emissions testing, all other counties are exempt for emission testing and visual verification. Therefore, while an uncertified federal swap could very well violate federal law, since no law exists in my state, one cannot be guilty of violating a state statute that doesn't exist.

The burden of proof is on the individual to prove they are within legal limits, but if they are, it is not illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:20 pm 
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If you live in an area where there are NO emissions testing required, how would anyone know what engine you have installed?
Where I live, I could put any engine in any vehicle I choose and no one would ever know.
Registration is done simply by VIN number alone; they don't give a rats behind what engine its got in it...

But I do realize some states have much tougher laws when emission testing is involved. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:25 pm 
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snoopydance wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
snoopydance wrote:

Illegal on the Federal or state level?

Both.

Just because your area does not have emission testing or inspections does not mean it's not legal to do anything you want.


While I agree with this:

Quote:
Just because your area does not have emission testing or inspections does not mean it's not legal to do anything you want.


Actually, what he is considering may or may not be legal. Directly from the EPA ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET:

"EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is
removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine
switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA
(Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test
Procedure would be necessary to make this determination. "

While it would be cost prohibitive and the burden of testing would be on the OP (and they would not be able to sell it in that configuration without EPA certification), it is not illegal unless the end result is higher emissions than the OEM configuration is certified for. The testing for this would be at the owner's expense, and probably quite extensive.

As for the state level:

"B. State Laws Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. "

This would depend on your state. I live in Maine which does not have laws governing engine swaps. Those living in Cumberland County are required to complete emissions testing, all other counties are exempt for emission testing and visual verification. Therefore, while an uncertified federal swap could very well violate federal law, since no law exists in my state, one cannot be guilty of violating a state statute that doesn't exist.

The burden of proof is on the individual to prove they are within legal limits, but if they are, it is not illegal.

Yeah you might want to copy and paste everything since you can only do a engine swap(legally) with a engine from the same year or newer and you must retain all the emission stuff.So if you swap in a '12 engine into a '05 vehicle it must pass '12 emissions.You also can not swap in a diesel into a vehicle that did not have a diesel option,exports don't count.That is what the EPA has stated in "simple" terms since a carb'd 350 will never pass emissions for any model year KJ,won't even pass emissions for any model year for the XJ either.

Your also on the hook if you sell it and the new owner does live in a emission testing area for 2 years after the sale to get it to pass emissions that is what makes 99% of all swaps illegal,again "simpler" terms for what the EPA states.

Been around the business professionally for over 22 years with multiple advance diagnostic(IE emissions qualified) certifications from GM,Chrysler,and ASE.

It's coming where testing will be everywhere to force older vehicles off the road,it's happening in Europe and will not take long to make it's way over here.Straight up bans are coming also.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Where is the OP located? Canada has little to say about emissions, its left up to each province.

Vancouver BC used to have annual/bi-annual emissions testing but that was scrapped in 2014. Between exemptions for 'new' cars, and having forced so many older vehicles off the road, they were losing money. :5SHOTS:

Its been replaced by language in the vehicle inspection book (have to buy, not public domain) to the effect of "reject if missing emissions equip after certain model year." Thankfully, there's no mandatory routine inspections on personal vehicles - only for import, or get written up by a cop.

What you want to do, and what you want to try and get away with... its ultimately up to you. :wink:

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Mine: 1993 W250, Cummins/5spd/NP205/3.54, Lockright, ~3" lift, 315/75R16 Duratracs, extra smoke, more noise, 368,000km


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Who cares what he swaps in? Let him deal with the legality of it if he needs to.

Aslong as OP actually follows through and posts pics.

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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:27 pm 
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I don’t care about legal issues. If I have to I’ll just trailer it. I have no emissions where I live and am friends with a few inspection stations so I’ll talk to them and see where I stand on the legal stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:37 am 
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TheBigE wrote:
I don’t care about legal issues. If I have to I’ll just trailer it. I have no emissions where I live...


:rockon:

That kind of talk makes me want to put a spare 400ci mopar in the parts KJ. :mrgreen:

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Hers: 2005 KJ, V6/6spd/NP241/3.55, 2" Teraflex, ¾" cradle drop, KK forks, 22" hub-to-flare, RRO arms, No-Slip (front), 245/75R16s, 248,000km
Mine: 1993 W250, Cummins/5spd/NP205/3.54, Lockright, ~3" lift, 315/75R16 Duratracs, extra smoke, more noise, 368,000km


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 Post subject: Re: KJ V8 SFA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:04 am 
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In areas of the country where there are no emissions testing, inspections, certifications, etc.., and there are many, you can swap in any kind of engine into any vehicle and no one but the owner will ever be the wiser or even care.
In my area, I have seen all kinds of home grown swaps! :lol:

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