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Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about thi
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Author:  GLHS117 [ Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about thi
Ok, so I have a 2003 Liberty with a 3.7. Its a Limited, with the heated seats, sunroof and so on, and its in pretty nice shape. It bent a valve when it kicked a rocker arm, and I'm not really a fan of that early 3.7, but I got a garage FULL of Chrysler 2.2 and 2.5 turbos, so I'm thinking about a 2.2 turbo swap into that truck. The early turbos were easier to deal with as far as electronics go, and the torque and power curves are not all that different. Plus, it would give a TON of engine space back! How do you make the transmission work with a swapped engine, does anyone know? I want to use the stock trans, which is the automatic for that year, and. How do I tell which one is in there? I can get an adapter plate made to mate the engine and trans and making cross members for engine mounts are easy for the application. Just wondering about the trans issues so far. Any ideas? Has this been done before?
Author:  u2slow [ Thu May 10, 2018 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
Here's the engine pattern from a 6speed that came off the Liberty 3.7L.
Image
I believe its a variation of the smallblock mopar, using a different starter. It may be the same as the 4.7L V8 and possibly the 5.7 hemi (not verified).

I fear to say the smaller turbo engine will be a dog with the auto. The stock 3.7L (auto) already feels weak compared to the manual. 4.10 (stock 4 cyl gears) is as deep as the Dana 30 IFS will go.

EDIT: The 45RFE (thru early 03) has an aluminum brainbox on the passenger fender. The 42RLE (late 03 onward) does not.
Author:  GLHS117 [ Thu May 10, 2018 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
Thanks for the info and quick reply! I'm thinking the turbo 2.2 would not be as sluggish as a normally aspirated 4 banger, as it pushed the LeBaron GTC around pretty well for the most part. The extra axle up front may prove me wrong, but who knows? So tell me- will the trans operate stand alone, or will it need feedback from the engine computer to function?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu May 10, 2018 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
GLHS117 wrote:
Thanks for the info and quick reply! I'm thinking the turbo 2.2 would not be as sluggish as a normally aspirated 4 banger, as it pushed the LeBaron GTC around pretty well for the most part. The extra axle up front may prove me wrong, but who knows? So tell me- will the trans operate stand alone, or will it need feedback from the engine computer to function?

The TCM needs inputs from the PCM to operate the trans correctly and vice versa.

Remember the KJ is a 4000lbs brick,not a 3000lbs car.If your doing it for mpg's you will never get anymore than you got with the 3.7 V6.
Author:  u2slow [ Thu May 10, 2018 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
No idea, I'm a manual trans guy. I know my parts Liberty has the 42RLE, and Liberty I sold was a 45RFE. My wild guess is the older trans (own controller) may be more adaptable?

There's also non-electronic transmissions you could adapt from older Jeeps (XJ, YJ) and Dodge trucks that bolt to the Liberty tcase.

I would compare the final drive ratio vs tire size of the stock 2.2 turbo car, to the 3.73 and 28-29"ish tires the Liberty uses. Plus the curb weight difference. That's going to be the math that decides how well it moves.

Engines I'd pick for a fantasy Liberty engine swap... none would use the Liberty auto trans.
- 3.8L Buick SC or turbo
- mercedes OM617 turbodiesel
- GM vortec or LS
- dodge 5.2/5.9 magnum
- dodge hemi (5.7L, etc)
Author:  GLHS117 [ Thu May 10, 2018 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
Thanks everyone for the input. I was just thinking, you know, 'cause I have so many of those engines lying around...... I don't have a manual trans for the Jeep and was not looking to buy anything else, so I'm not sure what to do with the rest of the truck. ......maybe a CRD swap, from a wreck......
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu May 10, 2018 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
GLHS117 wrote:
......maybe a CRD swap, from a wreck......
You want a upgrade not a downgrade.
Author:  u2slow [ Fri May 11, 2018 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
GLHS117 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the input. I was just thinking, you know, 'cause I have so many of those engines lying around...... I don't have a manual trans for the Jeep and was not looking to buy anything else, so I'm not sure what to do with the rest of the truck. ......maybe a CRD swap, from a wreck......


I feel your pain. My spare engines include cummins 6BTs, an old 4.0L Mitsubishi non-turbo diesel, Mopar 318(carb), 360(tbi), 400(carb). None really make any sense in a slightly modified grocery-getter. I also don't want to go buying more project powertrain.

The parts KJ I have has a popped head gasket (or worse) on the 3.7. I'll probably just sit on it till the one she drives expires. Then I'll have 2 cores to build a good one from. I'm happy these Jeeps are on the simple side despite being a 21st century product. I think if I'm diligent about rust control it should comfortably last thru two 3.7L lifespans.

EDIT: I'm a not Liberty CRD fan either.... the V6 manual trans model saved us ~$1k on purchase price, whereas the diesel was ~$5k premium - and sounds like it has more problems.
Author:  casm [ Sat May 26, 2018 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
u2slow wrote:
There's also non-electronic transmissions you could adapt from older Jeeps (XJ, YJ) and Dodge trucks that bolt to the Liberty tcase.


Neither of those would be a particularly good choice for a transmission donor if you want to avoid electronics.

The AW4 behind the 4.0 in the XJ was electronically-shifted. However, you can remove the TCM and still have first through third gears (IIRC), but you will not have any lockup of the torque converter.

In 2.8 V6 XJs, the Chrysler A904 TorqueFlite was used. That one was hydraulically-operated, but only had 3 speeds. They were also never used in conjunction with the NP231/242 transfer cases in an XJ, so you could end up having to do more adaptation than you might want to in order to make one work.

4-cylinder XJs... I'm somewhat hazy on those. My recollection is that they always had only 3 speeds regardless of year, but I don't recall which models were used.

I believe that all 6-cylinder TJ automatics were electronically-shifted regardless of year. The TJ also never used the AW4 from the XJ. Don't recall what they used behind the 4-cylinder models, but something is telling me that, depending on year, there may have been some commonality with the XJ in that regard.

My recommendation would be for an AW4, which is a very bulletproof gearbox if looked after. That said, the 2.2 (as others have mentioned) probably wouldn't do the greatest job of shoving a KJ through the air. You might want to consider a CRD, but only if you're fine with seeing exactly how much engine bay space can be consumed by a 4-cylinder engine ;)

Oh, and on the CRD note: just buy one with it already in it. There's a lot on a CRD that isn't plug & play with the V6 / 4-cylinder models.
Author:  u2slow [ Mon May 28, 2018 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
casm wrote:
u2slow wrote:
There's also non-electronic transmissions you could adapt from older Jeeps (XJ, YJ) and Dodge trucks that bolt to the Liberty tcase.


Neither of those would be a particularly good choice for a transmission donor if you want to avoid electronics.


I was thinking of the Dodge A518/46rh. (Does not need a pcm, and takes a 23-spline tcase).... assumed jeep was similar for the time period.

Any manual trans, of course, would not be electronic. :wink:
Author:  dennyb [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kicking around an unusual swap. What do you think about
I vote for buying a CRD. I've had mine for 3 years. Bought another as a project car. Have tune from greendieselengineering.com it's tuned for 188hp and 335lb/ft. Very peppy and tows as much as v6 with factory cooling already in place. Only added hitch receiver and trailer light plug.
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