Lifting a lifted lib

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

My lib has what I believe might be a 1.5” OME lift with new struts, and replacement upper A arms. Back is new longer springs and shocks. I need a little more lift, would like maybe 1” or so. Is it possible to shim up a tad more? Hate to ruin a nice lift but it doesn’t look quite right at such small lift and 265/75-16 on it.

jeeptorino68 · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2020 3:40 pm

Add an extra spring isolator to the rear springs and do a clevis spacer for the front. Very cheap for an extra bit of lift

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

jeeptorino68 wrote:

Add an extra spring isolator to the rear springs and do a clevis spacer for the front. Very cheap for an extra bit of lift

Awesome thanks. So I can go 2.5” total lift without worries on the CV joints?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 4:12 pm

Jett wrote:

jeeptorino68 wrote:

Add an extra spring isolator to the rear springs and do a clevis spacer for the front. Very cheap for an extra bit of lift

Awesome thanks. So I can go 2.5” total lift without worries on the CV joints?

2.5" lift is about max without getting into CV joint binding issues according to most posters on LOST. :wink:

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

WWDiesel wrote:

Jett wrote:

jeeptorino68 wrote:

Add an extra spring isolator to the rear springs and do a clevis spacer for the front. Very cheap for an extra bit of lift

Awesome thanks. So I can go 2.5” total lift without worries on the CV joints?

2.5" lift is about max without getting into CV joint binding issues according to most posters on LOST. :wink:

That’s all I’m after. If it’s 2.25 I’m okay with that too.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

That’s all I’m after. If it’s 2.25 I’m okay with that too.

Our KJ is at around 2.5" with a combination OME / clevis lift, and we're not experiencing any CV bind problems. YMMV, but that's generally a safe bet. FWIW, I used four conduit nuts on the clevis to get to that height; some folks have reported only needing three.

One footnote: that height is without an extra rear isolator, and it levelled out the Jeep. Frankly, after having towed with it like that a couple of times, I'm not as thrilled with it sitting level as I thought I might be. There are a pair of extra rear isolators sitting here waiting to go in as a result.

iakj11 · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2020 10:36 am

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

That’s all I’m after. If it’s 2.25 I’m okay with that too.

Our KJ is at around 2.5" with a combination OME / clevis lift, and we're not experiencing any CV bind problems. YMMV, but that's generally a safe bet. FWIW, I used four conduit nuts on the clevis to get to that height; some folks have reported only needing three.

One footnote: that height is without an extra rear isolator, and it levelled out the Jeep. Frankly, after having towed with it like that a couple of times, I'm not as thrilled with it sitting level as I thought I might be. There are a pair of extra rear isolators sitting here waiting to go in as a result.

I ran a set of extra upper isos in the rear for a few weeks with my ome springs and got a little too much growl out of my u joints. Tried the jba ylink to adjust my pinion angle, but that made it worse. That ylink was meant for more lift than I had. Others have done the extra isos with no issues though so YMMV.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

iakj11 wrote:

I ran a set of extra upper isos in the rear for a few weeks with my ome springs and got a little too much growl out of my u joints. Tried the jba ylink to adjust my pinion angle, but that made it worse. That ylink was meant for more lift than I had. Others have done the extra isos with no issues though so YMMV.

Good point. I've got the IRO Y-link with WWDiesel's diff mount, so have some degree of adjustability as regards pinion angle; the stock one won't. Going to start debating whether adjustable LCAs are needed or not after the extra isolator goes in, but I'm already leaning towards 'probably'.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

casm wrote:

iakj11 wrote:

I ran a set of extra upper isos in the rear for a few weeks with my ome springs and got a little too much growl out of my u joints. Tried the jba ylink to adjust my pinion angle, but that made it worse. That ylink was meant for more lift than I had. Others have done the extra isos with no issues though so YMMV.

Good point. I've got the IRO Y-link with WWDiesel's diff mount, so have some degree of adjustability as regards pinion angle; the stock one won't. Going to start debating whether adjustable LCAs are needed or not after the extra isolator goes in, but I'm already leaning towards 'probably'.

Why would you need adjustable y link and LCA’s? Not enough adjustment range with just the Y?

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

Why would you need adjustable y link and LCA’s? Not enough adjustment range with just the Y?

Sort of. There's a few reasons for doing both, at least where the Y-link is concerned.

The factory Y-link is, to put it mildly, junk. When the bushings fail (and they will), the entire unit has to be replaced. There's also no adjustability in it, meaning that even mild amounts of lift can potentially experience driveline vibes due to pinion angles being out of spec. Add to that the waning future availability of OEM parts for these vehicles, and going to the IRO WJ Y-Link makes sense since it's rebuildable - basically, replace it once and repair as necessary.

Re: the LCAs: at some point, the fixed-length factory LCAs are going to become a can't-ignore-them factor. The higher the rear end goes, the more they'll pull the axle towards the front end of the vehicle; this will become an issue for both pinion angle as well as tyre clearance relative to the wheelarches. By going to the adjustable LCAs, the axle can be re-centred in the wheelarches, giving it proper range of motion. Couple that with the ability to adjust the Y-link and pinion angle is now effectively a non-issue.

In other words: yep, you called it - at some point, there won't be enough adjustment available in the Y-link alone to properly set up pinion angle, wheel travel, etc.

What I don't yet know is if the OEM LCAs will become a significant issue or not until I get around to installing the extra spring isolator; it's going to basically be a case of wait-and-see. I'm hoping that they won't be necessary, but at some point I may just have to bite the bullet and install a set. That'll also mean extending brake lines, and not having a DRB-III handy to properly bleed them with makes things interesting.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

Why would you need adjustable y link and LCA’s? Not enough adjustment range with just the Y?

Sort of. There's a few reasons for doing both, at least where the Y-link is concerned.

The factory Y-link is, to put it mildly, junk. When the bushings fail (and they will), the entire unit has to be replaced. There's also no adjustability in it, meaning that even mild amounts of lift can potentially experience driveline vibes due to pinion angles being out of spec. Add to that the waning future availability of OEM parts for these vehicles, and going to the IRO WJ Y-Link makes sense since it's rebuildable - basically, replace it once and repair as necessary.

Re: the LCAs: at some point, the fixed-length factory LCAs are going to become a can't-ignore-them factor. The higher the rear end goes, the more they'll pull the axle towards the front end of the vehicle; this will become an issue for both pinion angle as well as tyre clearance relative to the wheelarches. By going to the adjustable LCAs, the axle can be re-centred in the wheelarches, giving it proper range of motion. Couple that with the ability to adjust the Y-link and pinion angle is now effectively a non-issue.

In other words: yep, you called it - at some point, there won't be enough adjustment available in the Y-link alone to properly set up pinion angle, wheel travel, etc.

What I don't yet know is if the OEM LCAs will become a significant issue or not until I get around to installing the extra spring isolator; it's going to basically be a case of wait-and-see. I'm hoping that they won't be necessary, but at some point I may just have to bite the bullet and install a set. That'll also mean extending brake lines, and not having a DRB-III handy to properly bleed them with makes things interesting.

interesting. Well it’s not surprising that the solution is an expensive custom part lol. My rig came with new LCA due to rust issues in back (strange since it’s rust free car) and they are aftermarket but I’m not sure if they are stock length or some added.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

It is a little goofy system for me coming from a 5 link on my Suzuki that this car replaced. But it seems to work well enough.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

interesting. Well it’s not surprising that the solution is an expensive custom part lol. My rig came with new LCA due to rust issues in back (strange since it’s rust free car) and they are aftermarket but I’m not sure if they are stock length or some added.

Yeah, there were a couple of recalls for the LCAs rusting out. It's possible that your KJ was one of the ones covered under those recalls, even if there was no rust in other places. Chances are they're stock length. Also, I Forgot to mention that the OEM (and aftermarket stock replacement) LCAs aren't rebuildable either. When the bushings go bad, you junk and replace the entire part.

The question to ask is how long you intend to keep the KJ for, and what kind of use you want out of it. That should help to figure out where it is and isn't worth investing the money in upgrading. Agreed that it gets pricey fast, though - the aftermarket for these was never as large as for other Jeeps, and now that the newest KJs are 13 years old it's only going to dwindle further.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2020 11:52 am

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

Why would you need adjustable y link and LCA’s? Not enough adjustment range with just the Y?

Sort of. There's a few reasons for doing both, at least where the Y-link is concerned.
The factory Y-link is, to put it mildly, junk. When the bushings fail (and they will), the entire unit has to be replaced. There's also no adjustability in it, meaning that even mild amounts of lift can potentially experience driveline vibes due to pinion angles being out of spec. Add to that the waning future availability of OEM parts for these vehicles, and going to the IRO WJ Y-Link makes sense since it's rebuildable - basically, replace it once and repair as necessary.
Re: the LCAs: at some point, the fixed-length factory LCAs are going to become a can't-ignore-them factor. The higher the rear end goes, the more they'll pull the axle towards the front end of the vehicle; this will become an issue for both pinion angle as well as tyre clearance relative to the wheelarches. By going to the adjustable LCAs, the axle can be re-centred in the wheelarches, giving it proper range of motion. Couple that with the ability to adjust the Y-link and pinion angle is now effectively a non-issue.
In other words: yep, you called it - at some point, there won't be enough adjustment available in the Y-link alone to properly set up pinion angle, wheel travel, etc.
What I don't yet know is if the OEM LCAs will become a significant issue or not until I get around to installing the extra spring isolator; it's going to basically be a case of wait-and-see. I'm hoping that they won't be necessary, but at some point I may just have to bite the bullet and install a set. That'll also mean extending brake lines, and not having a DRB-III handy to properly bleed them with makes things interesting.

Just curious; why do you want to raise your rear end even higher by adding the extra spring isolators?

With the 2.5" lift, mine already sets a good bit higher than the front end even with the 1/2" clevis spacers.
I do have IronMan Springs and Bilstein Shocks, not sure that makes a difference versus OME springs or some other brand.
Raising the rear end does raise the center of gravity of the vehicle even more thus possibly making it a little less stable (top heavy) in some driving situations.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

WWDiesel wrote:

Just curious; why do you want to raise your rear end even higher by adding the extra spring isolators?

It's all down to towing. The last couple of times I've hooked a trailer up to it, there's been more rear-end squat than I'd like - not colossal, but more than I'd like. More:

Quote:

With the 2.5" lift, mine already sets a good bit higher than the front end even with the 1/2" clevis spacers.

After I did the clevis lift, that pretty much levelled it out - hence the rear-end squat when towing.

Quote:

I do have IronMan Springs and Bilstein Shocks, not sure that makes a difference versus OME springs or some other brand.

No idea. In my experience, OMEs generally sit a little higher than advertised, then settle down to around (but typically slightly over) their nominal height. That's definitely what happened here; I'm not blaming the springs, but rather that I inadvertently levelled the KJ when I did the clevis lift.

Quote:

Raising the rear end does raise the center of gravity of the vehicle even more thus possibly making it a little less stable (top heavy) in some driving situations.

Which is true. Then again, that's already the case since it's lifted. Either way, I'm willing to see where it sits with the extra isolator in the rear and make a call from there; if that's the point where extended brake lines and adjustable LCAs become must-haves (which I suspect they would), there's a bit more thinking to do.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

interesting. Well it’s not surprising that the solution is an expensive custom part lol. My rig came with new LCA due to rust issues in back (strange since it’s rust free car) and they are aftermarket but I’m not sure if they are stock length or some added.

Yeah, there were a couple of recalls for the LCAs rusting out. It's possible that your KJ was one of the ones covered under those recalls, even if there was no rust in other places. Chances are they're stock length. Also, I Forgot to mention that the OEM (and aftermarket stock replacement) LCAs aren't rebuildable either. When the bushings go bad, you junk and replace the entire part.

The question to ask is how long you intend to keep the KJ for, and what kind of use you want out of it. That should help to figure out where it is and isn't worth investing the money in upgrading. Agreed that it gets pricey fast, though - the aftermarket for these was never as large as for other Jeeps, and now that the newest KJs are 13 years old it's only going to dwindle further.

Lol I’m new to jeeps but coming from a Suzuki I’m LOVING the aftermarket support on the liberty! So it’s all relative. Compared to a wrangler, anything would seem poorly supported. It is after all the most supported platform on earth I’d guess.
Yeah my LCA were replaced because of rust, but with moog parts because of availability. So yeah they probably are stock size.
As far as keeping it, time will tell. I either keep vehicles a long time or not very long if I find something I can’t jibe with but so far I’m liking it. The only question is if I can stay with automatic trans. They bug the doo doo out of me.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/energy-su ... tid=17452#

Would these work on the back?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2020 12:45 pm

Jett wrote:

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/energy-suspension-rear-coil-spring-isolator-set-9-6119r/_/R-BDVQ-9.6119R?_requestid=17452#
Would these work on the back?

I don't believe they would fit the springs. The springs are tapered on both ends to a reduced size. (see picture)
The universal spacers pictured in the link are for non tapered springs.
Most just add an extra OEM isolator/seat to add some spacing. (see second picture)

2005 Jeep Liberty Rear Springs

Stock Jeep Liberty Rear Spring Isolator

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

Lol I’m new to jeeps but coming from a Suzuki I’m LOVING the aftermarket support on the liberty! So it’s all relative.

I guess things have changed since I last spent time in the Suzuki world, 15-plus years ago :mrgreen:

Quote:

Compared to a wrangler, anything would seem poorly supported. It is after all the most supported platform on earth I’d guess.

Put it this way: I also do things with French cars. It's been easier to get Citroën and Peugeot parts than it has for the KJ at times, and both of those companies left North America in 1974 and 1991, respectively.

Quote:

Yeah my LCA were replaced because of rust, but with moog parts because of availability. So yeah they probably are stock size.

Yep, the Moog units will be the stock length.

Quote:

As far as keeping it, time will tell. I either keep vehicles a long time or not very long if I find something I can’t jibe with but so far I’m liking it. The only question is if I can stay with automatic trans. They bug the doo doo out of me.

If it's a diesel, don't be tempted by the 6-speed manual the export models got. It's weaker than the 545RFE by all reports, but I'll let someone with direct experience speak to that.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2020 11:20 pm

I didn't think there were any lca options? I guess swing by the welder and have him fab something up, sounds expensive. Copy a wj version for most dimensions?

Lifting a lifted lib

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