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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:55 pm 
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[quote="AZKJ"]The suggestion is for this to be the harder trail for the event, so I presumed we would be going up the wash??quote]

I'm not positive, but I think Ajax might be way beyond the capability of even a modified KJ. I'm going to check with Randy (djui5). He'd probably knowfor sure.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:49 am 
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Yes, the Ajax trail is not for KJ's. Neatus maybe if he doesn't mind body damage, but not for us "normal" Liberties. FJ is a great area with a lot of fun places to play for KJ's. Most of the trails are kinda hard, but the nice thing about the washes out there is they offer obstacles on the sides, so if you wanna play, you can play. If you don't, you don't have to.

Box canyon is almost boring, though it's a nice view. Martinez Cabin is fun with some light challenges near the cabin itself. Last time I went there I wheeled all the way to the mine, and although it was difficult it could be done by good drivers. The loop is out of the question. Upper Woodpecker can be done in a KJ because it runs through the wash and you can skip what you don't wanna drive through. Lower Woodpecker is not gonna happen in a KJ.

Hackberry might be a good option. Also on the North side is the Sunflower trail. My fav trail to run in the KJ. It's long, scenic, and has plenty of challenges that a KJ with a lift is more than capable of. I wouldn't wanna run a stock KJ through there though.

If you want a stock friendly trail on the East side I'd highly recommend Montana Mountain. It's #1 on my list for "light" trails.

Lastly everyone wheeling anywhere around here needs to get a STL permit. They are not that expensive, and are required for even crossing STL land anymore. The rule used to be if you stopped on STL land, well that has changed. We all need to do our part to keep these trails open.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:10 pm 
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^^^^ So... with your advice and trail expertise, when are you going to join in on one of our runs/events?? Or better yet, lead one?? You've been around the forum for awhile now, but I don't think too many people have met you. BTW... we can almost guarantee you won't flop your Liberty on a straight section of trail!! :P

There's nothing wrong with Box Canyon. It's a fun, scenic family trail, with just enough of a challenge for stock and lifted KJ's alike. There is also the big hill at the NE end of the canyon for the more adventurous folks to play on if they so choose. It's also a good way to get to other trails in the area if you go in off Price Road.

Montana Mountain... yeah, it's a good stock trail, but a tad boring by now. I think everyone here has been on it at least once, if not several times. We're looking for trails some people haven't been on yet for FITS. Maybe one like Walnut Canyon?? It's very scenic with just enough sand and softball sized rocks to make it fun and slow going. On the last half of the trail, where you turn north, away from the river, there is a long rocky wash to travel through. Near the end of the wash, there's a hard left turn to climb up to get out of the wash that poses a moderate challenge for stock and lifted KJ's. I think Walnut Canyon would be way more interesting than Montana Mountain.

State Land Permits... I said just about the the same thing above. One thing you might want to read up on... I don't believe the fee we pay to use our land which is controlled by the state, has anything to do with keeping trails open. If I'm not mistaken, from what I've read, state land is supposed to make money for the state. If you want to help fight to keep trails open, join an organization like the ASA4WDC which AZLJ is a member of (all of our dues, this year and last, went directly to them).

See ya on one of our runs....

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Last edited by AZKJ on Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Last years camp site made me want to stick a fork in my eye, or the little golf cart dudes tires. Please no more disneyland camping areas.

FJ would be great there are plenty of little trails easy to impossible there. They are all a stones throw from the main line in (box canyon drive). there is something for everyone.

And btw the waterfall (or ledge) at the north end of box canyon is nothing to joke about. So saying box canyon is all easy does not match my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Hey there stranger!! Didn't like the Camp Police at last years CG, eh?? Not many people did!! Well, maybe except for Vern. I heard they all became real good buds before the event ended!!

Looking back at some of my old pictures, I came up with these taken on the big hill at the NE end of Box Canyon we're talking about (sorry about the quality, looking almost straight into the sun). They only show the top portion of the hill, in reality, it's a lot longer and a little steeper than the pics show.

Some of us took a trip through Box Canyon, Martinez Cabin, back out and down to the Gila River, then exiting on part of Battle Axe Road on the SE side of Superior a few years ago. I think this would make a good trail for FITS, but skids and good A/T tires would be a must. Some scraping on a non lifted KJ is to be expected. It was a fun trail that both a stock and lifted KJ would have fun on. If anyone wants to see them, I could post up a few more pics showing more of the interesting parts of that run.

Me in the old TJ (no lift with 31" M/T's) going down the optional play hill at the end of Box Canyon....

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Here's Corwyyn in his red KJ going down, and as usual, there were a few built Wranglers watching on that were amazed at what the KJ could do.... got groceries?? !!!

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:44 am 
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AZKJ wrote:
^^^^ So... with your advice and trail expertise, when are you going to join in on one of our runs/events?? Or better yet, lead one??


Well I'd like to but am not a big fan of the form people are required to sign :) We're all adults here right?

Quote:
BTW... we can almost guarantee you won't flop your Liberty on a straight section of trail!! :P


I wouldn't be so sure about that :ROTFL:

Quote:
Maybe one like Walnut Canyon??


I don't think I've ever ran Walnut Canyon, so that could be nice. The big question here in picking a trail to run for FITS is "are there going to be any stock height KJ's going??". If the answer is YES, then things will change. If the answer is NO, then it opens the door to a lot more trails. Either way I really think FJ would be the best place to hold it this year. It's not that far away from AJ/Gold Canyon and there is a LOT to do out there. Going in Cottonwood Canyon and running the trails in the washes is a good idea too. Those in stock KJ's could stay on the road, while others could play in the washes/obstacles.

Quote:
If you want to help fight to keep trails open, join an organization like the ASA4WDC which AZLJ is a member of (all of our dues, this year and last, went directly to them).


I agree. What I meant by the STL comment is people in off "highway" vehicles NOT obeying the current rules is more "ammunition" for shutting down the trails :) Hope that makes sense.

In regards to Box Canyon being not so easy, when I ran it in the Liberty it seemed really easy, but I'm lifted with a rear locker too. I don't think I ran the whole thing like you guys do either. The hill in the pictures above I did not run in the KJ, but was riding in a well built TJ, so I've yet to experience that hill in my KJ. Hope that clears up my thoughts on that.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:09 pm 
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We're getting OT, which is to select trails etc for FITS V, but maybe I could clear a few things up so you would feel comfortable about joining in on the fun....

djui5 wrote:
Well I'd like to but am not a big fan of the form people are required to sign :) We're all adults here right?

Yes we are all adults, and that's why we understand signing a piece of paper releasing the club and other members from liability is no big deal.

It's a shame that a piece of paper is holding you back from joining in. I'm also trying to say... all of the advice and comments you give, would be more meaningful if more people knew you. It's kind of hard to listen to someone who is always talking, but doesn't want to actually join in and meet us. It's not like we're hundreds of miles away.

To try and clarify things for you... it's not about "we're all adults", it's just a piece of paper holding AZLJ and AZA4WDC harmless for whatever damage you may cause to yourself, and that you acknowledge no one has forced you into something you didn't want to participate in. It's a fact of life that in today's world, where many people sue because of their own mistakes and/or stupidity, that clubs and organizations have to CYA. FYI... the majority of "organized" clubs, and other official events covering many areas of recreation, require a hold harmless form to protect them self. The only time we ask people to sign the form is for a club sponsored event, of which there are only two... FITS and Trick or Jeep. The other runs people post up here are not official sanction AZLJ runs and don't require the form.

One other thing... the AZA4WDC, which AZLJ is a member of, provides an insurance policy for all clubs that come under their umbrella. They and their insurance people require the forms to relieve them of liability you may cause to yourself or others, making you responsible for your own actions. The "informal" club you run with, doesn't require the form because it is not a sanctioned body, with by-laws and everything else that goes with it. Check around with other sanctioned clubs, most require one.

I'd like to answer some of your other comments above... but we need to get back to regularly scheduled programing. So once again, thanks for your comments and hope to see you at one of our posted runs or events.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Makes sense, thanks :)

Like I was saying, are there going to be any stock height KJ's on this run? I know you have one, are you bringing it or the JK (you got a JK didn't you?)

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:23 pm 
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djui5 wrote:
Makes sense, thanks :)

Like I was saying, are there going to be any stock height KJ's on this run? I know you have one, are you bringing it or the JK (you got a JK didn't you?)

There usually are... don't know about this year, everyone hasn't signed up yet. Yes, I also have a JK. I sold the TJ awhile back and got a new JK that I'll be driving. Retired the KJ from the trails more or less seeing how it Beth's DD. No use tearing up two Jeeps. The last trail I ran in it was Backway to CK....

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:39 pm 
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I'm still interested in leading any stockers to Ajax mine (via Ajax Mine Road - not the trail) then over Telegraph Pass...

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Never been on that road, looks interesting. Seems like we've got a few good ideas going for the trails!! I guess Ernie and company will let us know what trails we'll be doing soon.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:40 pm 
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phxtoad wrote:
I'm still interested in leading any stockers to Ajax mine (via Ajax Mine Road - not the trail) then over Telegraph Pass...



I'm really thinking that would be the best trail to run considering stockers are probably going. If things change you can pick a different trail, but personally I'd go with that one. HTH.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:31 am 
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Okay lots of good suggestions....we had tossed around the idea of two trails...one easy and one a little more challenging.
I will be prerunning a trail this week....I will take Box Canyon through to the Coke Ovens...
I am suggesting the we go with Todds trail for the stockers or who ever would like to hit that trail and the Coke Ovens for anyone else. The Coke Ovens trail really isn't that bad but it has a lot of rocks and a few "interesting sections...this area can be really fun and I love just walking up to the Coke Ovens.

Anyone want to hit the trail with me on Thursday of Friday?

As for Campgrounds....last years quiet time was pretty annoying...Mike and Tammy are looking for a group camp area for us and we are going to find a place with some kind of facilities due to the large number of people.

Any adimin...can you please move this thread to the FITS section on the national board?

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:32 am 
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Neatus wrote:
Anyone want to hit the trail with me on Thursday of Friday?

I'd be up for Friday. Let me know when and where. It should be interesting with all the recent rain we've had. Are you going in on Price Road, on the north side of Florence?

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Last edited by AZKJ on Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:11 pm 
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I'm down for either Thursday or Friday. :JEEPIN:

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Okay, Thursday meet at the Florence McDonalds at 9am

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Neatus wrote:
Okay, Thursday meet at the Florence McDonalds at 9am

Oh well, I can't do it on Thursday. Friday would have been good..... my loss.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:46 pm 
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Wish I could go, gotta work Thur at 11AM.

Be careful please. The washes will still be running and there should still be lots of mud out there. Some guy in a Chevy truck dropped one wheel into a run with water running through it on Cottonwood road about a mile and a half in. His rear was in the air.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Neatus wrote:
Okay, Thursday meet at the Florence McDonalds at 9am


This still on? If so I need some directions. I have never been to Florence and thusly do not no where the McDonalds is.

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 Post subject: Re: FITS V 2010
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:09 pm 
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eyehatetofu wrote:
Neatus wrote:
Okay, Thursday meet at the Florence McDonalds at 9am


This still on? If so I need some directions. I have never been to Florence and thusly do not no where the McDonalds is.

I'm pretty sure it's still on, just got a PM from Neatus and he said it was. You guys have fun... sorry I can't make it.

From El Mirage to Florence it's roughly 91 miles/1:45 hour drive give or take, most likely a little longer if you consider rush hour traffic.

Directions:

- 60 East to Florence Junction
- South on Hwy 79 to Florence
- cross RR tracks on north side of town
- McD's is on the left side a mile or so down the road

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