It happened!! The Gap as we knew it, is no more!! A good part of it has been graded over. You can read the details on AZVJC and some other forums.

Okay... I'll start out by saying, I don't like to see trails disappear, and I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm only asking questions and trying to understand why the outrage coming from the 4x4 community that a great trail is no more. Please enlighten me as to what I may be missing.

Charouleau Gap (Wells #69) is designated as FSR 736, and as such, it's there to afford access to the area for fire crews etc., is it not? Granted, over many years it has been neglected by the Forest Service. It has been allowed to deteriorate and has evolved into an outstanding 4x4 trail, that many in the community have enjoyed.

So, I'm asking... are the Forest Service people wrong for going in there and making the area once again accessible to their equipment even though we lost a good trail? Does the 4x4 community have a right to be outraged?

I'll be interested in reading your reply's.

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Edit:

There's more to it than I realized. I think I may have found some answers to my own questions....

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/science/e ... mode=story

And some pro and con comments some people have made on the subject.....

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/science/e ... e=comments

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'06 Jeep KJ Sport... w/some stuff
'08 Jeep JK X... w/more stuff

It's an AZ LOST JEEPS thing....
other folks don't understand!!

I have never been on this trail, and my KJ couldn't handle it anyway, BUT this is garbage. The forest service does a lot of double talk to get them out of any prediciment they seem to find themselves in. First, they want to close several roads in the Tonto National Forest due to to much use, but want to make this road accesible to any "high clearance" vehicle and greatly increase the use of this area. They also say it is their responsibility to maintain forest roads for a variety of different reasons, but they also state that the majority of FS roads are unmaintained to keep the numbers down on people visting and to preserve the quiet of nature and so on. They seem to be hypocritical group.

This also looks like it will be the fate of the backway to Crown King trail. They want to grade all of the road on FS land; they are already about 1/3 or more of the way done.

I kind of went off on a tangent there, but to answer your question:

I don't think all FS roads are to provide access for fire crews, it's to provide public access for recreactional activities. I think the outrage for the OHV community stems from the fact the Forest Service likes to pick popular areas to "flatten" and close off entirely. They coincidentally like to "maintain" these areas to expand access. Why wasn't this a priority before, but all of a sudden becomes one? The FS is in a weird spot becasue they want to give the public access to public lands, but at the same time want to preserve said land. If you give access, it WILL get damaged, and a good example of this is the Tonto National forest. I also believe the history of some of these areas also comes in to play. Some of these roads were built as mining roads and stage coach roads and have a lot of history behind them, it's not really the same when you can drive a Buick down them.

That's just my opinion

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Get Out. Eject. Escape from the prison planet.

Good points and well said....

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'06 Jeep KJ Sport... w/some stuff
'08 Jeep JK X... w/more stuff

It's an AZ LOST JEEPS thing....
other folks don't understand!!

AJ, without fully reading into the articles (only because I've read similar ones before), I'm sure that it'll all be ok in the coming years. I've been on the Gap at least a handful of times. These trips have ranged from VERY VERY difficult to mildly difficult. This isn't the first time the forest service has gone through and done some major road improvements. I remember Roachman telling me about it a couple years back, then running it last year at FITS. It was still entertaining. He even commented that certain spots already were changed back.

Nature will make it all right again. The monsoons that come down the wash are immense. We got stranded out there one year (actually it's probably 6 years to this weekend) and there was a winter rain storm. For over an hour it rained as we sat on a hill in the bend of the wash. It took at least another hour after the rains before the water slowed enough for us to drive across. There were arm span width boulders being hurled down the wash like tiny pebbles. There are so many spots along the trail that could be quickly repaired by the Forest Service, but will erode with time. (already seen the erosion on the border road that was built by Corp of Engineers and private contractors both)

So while the road might not be the 5+ trail that he super buggie yahoos would like it to be so that it'll be another exclusive area for only "real jeepers", I think that it will still be a scenic and enjoyable drive. The area has far more worries from the Catalina side home owners trying to shut it down. All the traffic from the atvs, dirt bikes, and jeeps going up to mini Moab.

I do agree with your point about it being a FOREST SERVICE road that they are allowing the public to use to experience the great out doors. These roads were made for more than people to go four wheeling on. These roads are a vital part in fighting the wild land fires. They serve to get resources to areas and as fire breaks.


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Went back and read article and comments. Many valid points brought up. Wow wheelers and ecos fighting together who wouldve thought? I do like their erosion stance and the fact that "simple" access will bring even more "vandals" to the area. Look at all the rural state and federal parks that destroyed by litter and graffiti.

Still stand by original comments. After reading it, I've also noticed that they're talking about 5 miles of trail. The trail is about 19 miles long, if i remember. It looks like it will encompass "mini moab" on the Catalina side. That's were all the granite rocks are. The Oracle side repairs appear to cover the first set of rocks as you get to the wash. That area has been repaired before. The most popular obstacle "The Step" should be fine. YAY!!!!!

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I remember that. July 2004. I have those huge boulders rolling down the wash on film somewhere. I'll have to find it. About 20 of us hanging on a small hill surrounded by water. Great memories mike. The Gap was just graded about 3 or 4 years ago wasn't it? I agree that the water will beat it up over time again. Crown King was graded a few years back and now it is washed out again. Can't stop nature.

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2011 JKUR

You are both correct that nature will reclaim the area "if" it's not maintained. However, there was a part in the story where they said the granite rocks/boulders that made up one of the obstacles was actually destroyed when they graded the trail. I never ran the Gap, so exactly where that area is, I can't say....

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'06 Jeep KJ Sport... w/some stuff
'08 Jeep JK X... w/more stuff

It's an AZ LOST JEEPS thing....
other folks don't understand!!

HE'S ALLLLLIIIIIIIIVVVVEEEEEE!!!!!!!! Hey Travis how have you been man? How's the family? Sure have missed you around here. You should come out and meet all great new guys that have contributed to the club.

Hey Mike. Doing good here. Only about 3 weeks away from kid #3 son #2. While i do wheel on a consistant basis it is all just hunting and fishing. Haven't been in the rocks in a loooooong time. I always do lurk here though. It is great to see LOST get so big.
How is all with you and your family? I hope great!!!! We will have to get together sometime. It'd be great to see all the ol and new guys. You ever hear from Robert? Cya

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2011 JKUR

Trav:
Congrats on kid 3, hope all is well with everyone

do you still go to roosevelt lake? ilene and I go there a lot. Maybe we'll see you there sometime

Robert is actually back in AZ now but he hasn't posted here yet. I don't know if he owns a jeep now, thought he sold it

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2011 Nissan XTerra