Wasted money

the1jferg · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:25 pm

Hey folks, That new issue of whatever magazine just verified that the intakes and exhaust are a waste of money. Only getting about 3 HP with both installed. Its on the shelf now.

Boi1ermaker · **Joined:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:44 pm **Posts:** 249

Seems a little odd that you are using a magazine (I'm guessing JP) that you obviously don't respect to back up your statement. Assuming for a moment that what they are printing is true, there is also a gas mileage benefit to installing an intake and exhaust. Example, i spent 200 on the K&N and 500 on the Dual output Borla exhaust. Prior to installation i was averaging 20mpg (~80% highway driving). Post installation, i've averaged 21.5mpg. I travel about 18k miles per year; assuming gas prices of 2.25/gal, the mods will pay for themselves in just under 5 years, and i plan on keeping the KJ longer than that. There are probably less expensive intakes and exhausts that will achieve similar results. So even without a gain in HP, upgrades can have some benefits (besides the fun of modding a jeep).

As for HP gains, i'm sure KYLiberty will see this thread eventually and hopefully comment.

the1jferg · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:22 pm

No, my friend. I have no problem with "JP". You must have miscrakin me for most everyone else here. :lol:

I think the Mag is 4wheel and SUV, and I'm sure some one will chime in with the correct name. (current on newsstand)

The article is on the 3.7L Jeep Liberty and the Dyno study using, I believe the expensive intake and Cat back exhaust.

The torque only increased by about 4 and a meger MPG increase...Not to good.

I have a 4x2 with Auto, synthetics, K &N drop in (Hi-Way),and a noslip. I get 24-27mpg , Why is yours so low????

I get 20mpg with 1000lbs of gear and passengers, pulling a 10 foot trailer????

If you think I need to do a reprint...Read the article for yourself.

I don't know how much you weigh, my friend, some could get an extra MPG by shedding a few pounds.

Oh yeah, It only matters how much fun you are having...Its your money.

Village Idiot Out -Bye !

Boi1ermaker · **Joined:** Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:44 pm **Posts:** 249

I too have a 4x2, use amsoil products and the KJ spends most of its time in Texas. I get 24-27mpg on the highway too, but i don't spend all my driving time on a flat highway during a windless day with the a/c turned off. Yesterday on my 30 mile into town i averaged 26 and change mpg before the cold front rolled in. Filled up before heading back and averaged 18.8 mpg driving into a 30+ mph wind.

Quote:

I don't know how much you weigh, my friend, some could get an extra MPG by shedding a few pounds.

I'm 6' and 180lbs...not sure if you were trying to be funny or just being classless, but now you know. If it makes you feel better about yourself by putting others down, so be it. But I didn't say that the article you referenced (well sort of no magazine name, no details at all) didn't exist or you were wrong about what it said. Nor was i asking for a reprint. There is no doubt manufacturers claims HP claims for most mods are exaggerated. The K&N FIPK claims 5HP at 5400rpm. Even if the claim is true, its rare that i even hit 5K rpms so i'm realistic about any gains. If you are going to throw something out there about a mod being a waste of money and potentially discourage others, it would be nice to back it up somehow. Maybe a few details from the article or a little bit of explanation of personal experience.

streetKJ · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:43 pm

the1jferg wrote:

Hey folks, That new issue of whatever magazine just verified that the intakes and exhaust are a waste of money. Only getting about 3 HP with both installed. Its on the shelf now.

Before you bash on intakes and exhaust, why dont you drive a KJ that has one and tell us if you think the fun factor and drivability is better or worse.

With your logic, you might as well say that lifts, baskets, and bumper guards are a waste of money because they simply add weight and make your KJ less aerodynamic. The utility factor is completely ignored, which is why I must argue that with an intake properly set up, the KJ will make more than 3 additional HP on the dyno, not to mention give you better throttle response, and slightly improve your gas mileage. An exhaust will enhance your top end and will allow for better flow.

Jeger · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:53 pm

AHA! The village idiot strikes again! :shock:

This is funny seems you know just what it takes to put some people on the defensive :lol:

I still havnt figured out the Hummer emblem thing, maybe you were just bored?

wendell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:11 pm

The manufactures get thier numbers by dyno tunning with thier product installed. To really get the best results, is to also get a tune. Adjusting the air, fuel ratio and timming can make a mod come alive, But even without a tune, there's allways benifit to increased air and exhaust flow. The butt dyno likes it if nothing else.

wendell · **Posted:** Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:22 pm

"O", by the way, I'm new here and all, but you come across kinda rude, maybe you don't mean to and your probobly a nice guy. But you could work a little on your people skills. The liberty is the thing that unites us, not divids us. Also it would be 3 more hp that you didn't have before. It is a free country, if you don't feel the mods are worth money, you don't have to buy them. I'm not sure you convinved me yet, but keep trying, maybe you'll say something that isn't offenesive and worth listening to.

Jeepnut · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:46 am

before everyone jumps down each others throat about this think, when you upgrade to the cold air intake you get to hear the sound that it makes up in the front pass side corner like a big suction, and with exhaust you get the noise and sound of power, usually when you add these types of mods and I am guilty of it too you like to hear that suction and rumble out the tail pipes, so even though it is more freely flowing you are getting the peddle up there just to hear some of these sounds and to feel the power gain and also trying to see if you can notice an improvement in performance, just like with a sports car as soon as you add that exhaust like I did with my camaro I was catching myself more and more pushing that peddle to hear the rumble and you know you want others to hear it to or you wouldnt rev at the little hondas at the intersection

wendell · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:25 am

Jeepnut, you are totally correct, the sound is the biggest factor on alot of these mods. Truth be known, the factory is starting to make less restrictive airboxes and exhaust as they fight to improve hp and mpg. The factory has to strike a balance betweem quietness and flow, where as we sacerfice the quietness for full flow. The poster could be right, that may translate to only 3 hp. I believe a little adjusting of the a&f could improve that a tad. As has been stated, there is alot to be said for the fun factor.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:12 pm

Got to add my 2 cents-----want more HP you need to dump alot of $ to do it,HP isn't free.So 3 HP for about $600 isn't doing to bad,some poeple spent way more for less.

raceinfan · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:27 pm

every little bit helps I say

especialy with the gas prices jumping up & down,money saved down the road

to each his own if you want to spend the $$ go ahead if you don't then don't, simple logic, but the KJ wasn't meant to be a speed demon either

Jeepnut · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:49 am

another trick guys I know used to gain better performance and power was that every 100 punds you dropped is like adding 10 hp, roughly 1 tenth at the track I know mustang and camaro guys who had all the sound deading material removed underhood insulation, spare tires, rear seats and even there sway bars and A/C systems in the pursuit of better performance, In my camaro I had removed the spare tire and jack and also ported out the upper intake and runners along with many other mods, and one of the best things to do is bringing in cold air to the intake and keeping the intake cool, as many had done a throttle body bypass to remove the coolant that was running through the throttle body

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

Just changing your intake and exhaust isn't going to make very much peak dyno difference at all. Think about it. You're not moving, and the fan they place in front of your vehicle doesn't move anywhere near as much air as actually moving does. The stock exhaust actually isn't too bad considering the amount of fuel and air you can get through the rest of the system. You also have the factory programming with torque management. The torque management is going to limit the peak horsepower and torque you can get through the transmission. It will also limit the power during shifts, and when taking off. If you're only doing minor performance mods, I would recommend not running it on the dyno. Most of the minor mods can make it feel more powerful, or in some way better to drive, but they're dissappointing on the dyno. You also need to reset the adaptives in the ecu after doing a mod, and then drive it a few weeks to let it reprogram itself. 2 sets of dyno runs will probably run you around $200.

If you really want to make it run like a sport truck, it can be done. It's just expensive. Just do the mods in my signature. The next round is to get JBA headers, and then do the ported heads, 206 cams, fms bluetop injectors, and a custom flash from B&G.

djformi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:54 pm

Quote:

fms bluetop injectors

What size?

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

I'm thinking around 24# @ 43.5 psi. I think that will give me around 27# instead of the stock 24# @ 49 psi. That, combined with a ported set of heads with 206 cams, and my current intake system should be a pretty good match. I'll definately have B&G run the numbers on the computer first though. Not going to bother them with it until I'm ready to do it though. I'll dyno it the way it is now, and again after the installation and resetting all the adaptives in the ecu. If anything needs to be adjusted, I'll just send the ecu to B&G with the dyno info.

the1jferg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:02 pm

Jeger said: "AHA! The village idiot strikes again! "

I love you man :lol:

I already said its yalls money. Everyone has their "thing". Mine is useless firearms and Bigfoot hunting.

YES, I do get LESS MPG in other than optimal conditions.

No, I ain't trying to hurt anyones feelings. I'm 5'9, 170 lbs, retired, and 42 years old. I've been thru Combat and Cancer. I stay in shape because I never know when the next surgery is coming. You heal faster without the fat. Health don't matter...stress levels do. You die when the Master calls your name.

Merry Christmas Folks.