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Has anyone tried the JBA headers for the 3.7L V6?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7953
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Author:  Growler [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Has anyone tried the JBA headers for the 3.7L V6?

I was looking through some of the posting here, and can't seem to find anything but questions. Does anyone have any real engine modification experience?

I see that JBA makes headers for the 3.7L V6. I have been looking for ways to increase my performance, since I put 31" tires on my 03 liberty, but knew that an air intake system and cat-back exhaust would be a waste of money without headers.

Logic would state that if you increase air flow into the engine, and improve horsepower, you're going to increase flow throughout the entire system. I.E. exhaust. And if you put the bigger 3" cat-back exhuast on, your not doing anything, till the exhaust has bottle necked in the headers and converter.

It's just that before I spend the $1K that it'll probably cost to do the intake, headers, and cat-back 3" exhuast, I'd like to know if anyone else has tried it. If anyone has tried, it, I'd love to see the dyno results... Honestly, I need another 20 hp, to keep my liberty in Overdrive with the 31" tires. I'm getting 250 miles on 17 gallons of gas if I'm lucky.....

Author:  streetKJ [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

I think intake, headers, and exhaust will only free up horsepower, but not really give it.

Our KJs make 210hp, and if you factor in power loss through the 4WD drivetrain, its about 25% power loss rather than the standard 10-15% loss in 2WD drivetrains (4x2 KJs are excluded from this), which would mean we put out roughly 157.5hp at the wheels.

Say you add a cold air intake (13hp for AEM i think), JBA headers (roughly 10hp), and exhaust (19hp for the Magnaflow bolt on [or was it 22hp]), lets recalculate with 25% drivetrain loss. You're looking at about 210+13+10+19= 252. About 189hp at the wheels.

Lets say you're supercharged with the Kenne Bell kit, start with 252+100hp forced induction. 352x.75= 264 wheel hp.

I'm dreaming, but that would be nice, haha. We still need forged pistons and connecting rods.

Author:  KY Liberty [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

streetKJ wrote:
I think intake, headers, and exhaust will only free up horsepower, but not really give it.

Our KJs make 210hp, and if you factor in power loss through the 4WD drivetrain, its about 25% power loss rather than the standard 10-15% loss in 2WD drivetrains (4x2 KJs are excluded from this), which would mean we put out roughly 157.5hp at the wheels.

Say you add a cold air intake (13hp for AEM i think), JBA headers (roughly 10hp), and exhaust (19hp for the Magnaflow bolt on [or was it 22hp]), lets recalculate with 25% drivetrain loss. You're looking at about 210+13+10+19= 252. About 189hp at the wheels.

Lets say you're supercharged with the Kenne Bell kit, start with 252+100hp forced induction. 352x.75= 264 wheel hp.

I'm dreaming, but that would be nice, haha. We still need forged pistons and connecting rods.


You're right about the automatic with 4x4 losing around 25% to the ground. Around 20% at the transmission, and 5% at the transfer case. The 3.7 V6 4x4 auto makes around 155 hp on a Dynojet dyno, which is the most popular brand here in the US, probably because it reads about 10% higher than the Superflows, Dyno Dynamics, and Mustangs.

Your calculated 252 horse power is too high. With those modifications, you might be at 225 -230 hp at the motor, or around 170 hp at the ground on a Dynojet. Around a 10% increase for under $1500 isn't bad at all.

The supercharger kit from Kenne Bell isn't made. The 3.7 cannot withstand a supercharger for very long unless it is built with different pistons, rings, and rods. Also, the KB supercharged Libby only ran the quarter in 16.1 seconds. Mine outruns it without N2O and the spare stock motor in it. With the N2O it was over 2 seconds faster. After a year with the N2O, the race motor finally blew the headgasket at cylinder 5. It still ran a 15.7 even though the motor was only running for the first 3/4 of the run. Getting ready to have the race motor rebuilt with ceramic coated pistons, forged rods, higher compression ratio, and a direct ported N2O, etc. Should be really surprising to the Japanese vehicles at the track.

Author:  streetKJ [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:40 am ]
Post subject: 

KY Liberty wrote:
streetKJ wrote:
I think intake, headers, and exhaust will only free up horsepower, but not really give it.

Our KJs make 210hp, and if you factor in power loss through the 4WD drivetrain, its about 25% power loss rather than the standard 10-15% loss in 2WD drivetrains (4x2 KJs are excluded from this), which would mean we put out roughly 157.5hp at the wheels.

Say you add a cold air intake (13hp for AEM i think), JBA headers (roughly 10hp), and exhaust (19hp for the Magnaflow bolt on [or was it 22hp]), lets recalculate with 25% drivetrain loss. You're looking at about 210+13+10+19= 252. About 189hp at the wheels.

Lets say you're supercharged with the Kenne Bell kit, start with 252+100hp forced induction. 352x.75= 264 wheel hp.

I'm dreaming, but that would be nice, haha. We still need forged pistons and connecting rods.


You're right about the automatic with 4x4 losing around 25% to the ground. Around 20% at the transmission, and 5% at the transfer case. The 3.7 V6 4x4 auto makes around 155 hp on a Dynojet dyno, which is the most popular brand here in the US, probably because it reads about 10% higher than the Superflows, Dyno Dynamics, and Mustangs.

Your calculated 252 horse power is too high. With those modifications, you might be at 225 -230 hp at the motor, or around 170 hp at the ground on a Dynojet. Around a 10% increase for under $1500 isn't bad at all.

The supercharger kit from Kenne Bell isn't made. The 3.7 cannot withstand a supercharger for very long unless it is built with different pistons, rings, and rods. Also, the KB supercharged Libby only ran the quarter in 16.1 seconds. Mine outruns it without N2O and the spare stock motor in it. With the N2O it was over 2 seconds faster. After a year with the N2O, the race motor finally blew the headgasket at cylinder 5. It still ran a 15.7 even though the motor was only running for the first 3/4 of the run. Getting ready to have the race motor rebuilt with ceramic coated pistons, forged rods, higher compression ratio, and a direct ported N2O, etc. Should be really surprising to the Japanese vehicles at the track.


Interesting.

I've been reading some of your older posts for a while, and always wondered about some of the mods you had on.

I was wondering about your TransGo shift kit. What does it do exactly? The website wasnt much help at all. Could you also please tell what the APS stall converter does, and how are 4.10 gears beneficial?

I thought Kenne Bell did in fact make a supercharger for the KJ for a short period, but then discontinued it from a lack of demand? Do you by any chance know what PSI the Kenne Bell libby was running when it did that 16.1sec pass?

I'm interested in eventually supercharging the KJ, but of course after much research on getting forged internals for it. It's going to be very expensive regardless. Would you mind posting about your experience in getting your new pistons, rods, and tuning? I'd love to hear about it. I was also looking into possibly using a custom Squires turbo kit (external turbo setup, no intercooler) which will cost about $4k for the turbo kit and custom piping, and doesnt include prepping the motor for forced induction.

I'm hoping they release a stroker kit sometime in the future. If forced induction tuning proves to be too much strain on the wallet, I'll probably just end up tuning it for NA. A friend of mine recommended getting an APEX-i SAFC computer to help control the air/fuel map along the powerband. Couple this with dyno tuning for the SAFC (super air/fuel controller), and the motor's efficiency can be maxed out for a particular scenario.

Since you seem to be into drag racing, I wonder why you didnt instead pick up a set of Koni Yellow (3 way adjustable) shocks and Eibach Pro Kit springs for the libby? Do the Monroes lower the KJ, or are they just the right price. Rather than lifting my ride in the typical Jeep fashion, I think I'm going to get the Eibach pro kit eventually.

Author:  KY Liberty [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
Interesting.

I've been reading some of your older posts for a while, and always wondered about some of the mods you had on.

I was wondering about your TransGo shift kit. What does it do exactly? The website wasnt much help at all. Could you also please tell what the APS stall converter does, and how are 4.10 gears beneficial?

I thought Kenne Bell did in fact make a supercharger for the KJ for a short period, but then discontinued it from a lack of demand? Do you by any chance know what PSI the Kenne Bell libby was running when it did that 16.1sec pass?

I'm interested in eventually supercharging the KJ, but of course after much research on getting forged internals for it. It's going to be very expensive regardless. Would you mind posting about your experience in getting your new pistons, rods, and tuning? I'd love to hear about it. I was also looking into possibly using a custom Squires turbo kit (external turbo setup, no intercooler) which will cost about $4k for the turbo kit and custom piping, and doesnt include prepping the motor for forced induction.

I'm hoping they release a stroker kit sometime in the future. If forced induction tuning proves to be too much strain on the wallet, I'll probably just end up tuning it for NA. A friend of mine recommended getting an APEX-i SAFC computer to help control the air/fuel map along the powerband. Couple this with dyno tuning for the SAFC (super air/fuel controller), and the motor's efficiency can be maxed out for a particular scenario.

Since you seem to be into drag racing, I wonder why you didnt instead pick up a set of Koni Yellow (3 way adjustable) shocks and Eibach Pro Kit springs for the libby? Do the Monroes lower the KJ, or are they just the right price. Rather than lifting my ride in the typical Jeep fashion, I think I'm going to get the Eibach pro kit eventually.


The TransGo reprogramming kit causes the transmission to shift much quicker, with less slip. It is actually better for your transmission. It makes it shift more like a sport truck. The downshifts for passing are much quicker too. Very nice for a little over $100 if you can take apart your own valve body. It's even a very nice mod if you have to pay a mechanic $300 to install it.

The APS torque converter is custom built with a 2500 rpm stall and a 2.53:1 torque multiplier. It allows me to hold the brake, and rev the engine up above 2000 rpm before I release the brake and launch. It is also more effecient than stock. It only looses around 12% of the power compared to 20% for the stock converter. That means that you get 8% more power to the ground. You will also want a B&G flash with the torque management deleted. Otherwise, the stock computer will not allow you to launch well, and it won't shift as good as it can.

The 4.10 gears are slightly larger than the stock 3.73 gears. This allows you to gain low rpm torque, at the expense of some high rpm horsepower. The increases your acceleration ability. It will cost you a few mpg at interstate speeds though. The 4.10's for the front are only available from a dealership. The cheapest and easiest way to get them is pull a front diff from a 4 cylinder KJ. I've got US Gears from Randy's Ring and Pinion in the rear of mine.

KB put a supercharger on the Liberty Patriot from Performance West Group for SEMA shows back in 2002. Unfortunately, the pistons and rings on the stock 3.7 can't handle forced induction. The motor will have to be built. You'll need to have custom parts made for a 4.7 rebuild to build the 3.7.

I went with the Monroes because they handle and ride much better than the stock shocks and struts. This Jeep is a daily driver for me, and I would never lower a Jeep. Just can't do it. Plus, going skiing every weekend in the winter is much more important to me than racing. That's one of the reasons my choice in boost was N2O. Over 300 lbs of torque to the ground in a Liberty could be a little dangerous after an ice storm.

I think the APEX-i is a good idea. The tricky thing about air/fuel ratio control on a Liberty is that it tends to run cylinder 5 the leanest, and 2 the richest. I would think combining the APEX-i with a set of Lincoln Navigator fuel injectors could provide some interesting results. I've being playing around with the idea myself because of the ram-air. It actually makes a big difference. There is a small opening in the underside of the hood, right above the K&N cone. All the air from the big scoop is blown right into it. I actually have to clean the air filter every 1000-1500 miles because the top half of it is almost black.
Image

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 

Do you have a link to the TransGo shiftkit that you used, and the stall converter that you had installed??? I'm very interested in doing the same things. Also, how do i go about getting a B&G flash, or a link to the kit or whatever...

Author:  KY Liberty [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:28 pm ]
Post subject: 

The shift kit and torque converter are from APS Precision
http://www.apsprecision.com

The flash is from B&G Chrysler
http://www.bgchrysler.com

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

Do you mind me asking which Kits you used, especially from B&G, kinda confused, never done any of this before, and is it ok to do the shift kit before the flash, or should i do them at the same time?

Author:  KY Liberty [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

The shift kit is the TRNS-0045P APS 45/545RFE Performance Shift Kit - Fits 1999+ 45/545RFE Transmissions.

The link to the reprogramming for the ECU is here.
http://www.bgchrysler.com/Service/High_Performance_B_G_Flash/high_performance_b_g_flash.html

You can call them and then send them your ECU. Or you can do what I did, and get a spare ECU from Autocraft, and have your VIN number written to it. Send the new one to B&G. Then take it to a dealership and have them program the keys to it or it will only run for 2 seconds if you have the grey keys, or the keys with buttons built in. This way you have the original ECU as a spare if you ever want the performance ECU reprogrammed.

You can do these upgrades in just about any order. They work best together though. The combination of them is pretty impressive. My Libby is a completely different vehicle to drive. Hard to believe all this started out from it feeling sluggish compared to my Cherokee 4.0. I can't wait for JBA to get back to me on if the 03 headers will fit my 02. May go ahead and buy a set of the ceramics and take care of the cats at the same time.

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

what do you mean "take care of the cats"?

Author:  KY Liberty [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Replace the 3 catalytic converters with 1 high flowing catalytic converter.

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

is that inspections legal???

Author:  KY Liberty [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:45 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'm going to check before it's done. I'll just ask my mechanics. If the best they can do is install the headers, I'll still be happy. However, I don't understand why a can't have a custom exhaust from manifold to tips as long as there is a catalytic converter, or 2 of them like some Liberties have. Why would it require 3? Also, there is no emissions testing here.

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

lucky dog, why even bother with a cat then?

Author:  MikeD0106 [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

hey guys... I just looked under my Libby recently after reading this thread and I can only see 1 cat and a REALLY long muffler. Am I missing something?

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

yup, if you look just downstrem of the exhaust manifold, you'll see two smaller cats, one on each manifold downtube.

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

One more question for you KY, you mentioned that i should get the flash that deletes the torque management, and that got me to thinking....it seems like the Jeep has a lot more punch than the ECU seems to let out. I almost thought that there was traction control :?: would that be due to the torque management, if not, than what does it do exactly???

Author:  SavageSS27 [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 

Any thoughts on this?

Author:  KY Liberty [ Sat May 13, 2006 10:54 am ]
Post subject: 

Removing the torque management helps your transmission to shift quicker, and lock up quicker. It's also necessary if you're going to run more than 50 hp of boost.

Author:  ND4SPD [ Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  back to the original question

so did anyone actually tried the JBA headers??? :?

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