Alternator clutch pulley warning

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:28 am

If the alternator clutch pulley is rattling, replace it.

There have been a few comments from time to time that the alternator clutch pulley is more of an obnoxious sound than a serious problem. Please don't ignore it. It makes noise because it is broken and when it finally completely fails, it can leave you stranded. I actually have the replacement pulley. I bought it when I first heard learned what the noise was....but it was not a priority replacement since I had heard it was no big deal.

-------------------

This evening on my way back from taking my 3 YO out for a drive, the rattling clutch pulley shredded. I was in a very isolated area in below freezing temperatures, foggy and dark.......... and I was running off battery power. I was able to limp into a gas station just in time for it to die.
Ironically, I called my wife to come pick up my son to take him home and HER CRD started choking about 4 miles from home forcing her to return! (Still not sure what is wrong but she has 2 CELs related to the EGR). So, grampa drove out and picked up my son (in his old Hundai with 130K and never a thing wrong with it) while I invented new curse words and waited for the tow truck.

AAA got mine home and my wife made it back in 1st gear, so now both cars sit in my frozen muddy driveway awaiting my attention. I suppose I should have known better. After all, it has been nearly 5 days since one of them stalled or broke down in the middle of the road.

Ironically, I was just reading through some threads regarding this pulley the other day .....and the debate concerning the best way to get the pulley off. Time to dig through those again..... :roll:

- Chris

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:53 am

Which PN did you order for the 05?

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:15 am

RTStabler51 wrote:

Which PN did you order for the 05?

1-53013554AE
As I recall I got it from MoparPartsAmerica

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:47 am

Boy, some bad luck there Chris...

Get the miller tool, it will make your life so much easier. Sorry, don't know any partnumber.

Ow I found it:

Ranger1 wrote:

Mine threaded on, but it needed a Miller Special tool, p/n 8433, unless I was willing to take the alternator apart. Even with the right tool, it was locked down pretty good and took a 24" extension bar to break it loose. Once loose, it comes off very easily.

The only gotcha is that the older decoupler (ends with an AC) is longer on the outer edge - this fits the 8433 tool perfectly. The newer decoupler ends with AE and is shorter on the outer rim - this causes the outer hex part of the 8433 to not fully engage. You have to be careful when tightening as it can slip and round the edges of the outer hex on the pulley.

dgeist · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:11 pm

Mine took a nose dive about 6 months ago and took two of the other pulley with it. Luckily never resulting in a breakdown, just a lot of noise. At the same time, my rear diff ABS sesor died, too. Interstingly, my odometer stopped incrementing and the EVIC mileage dropped to 0... fun, fun. Is your still under warranty?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:25 pm

.....some one could record the noise and post it :idea:

That way every one will know what to listen for.

If mine starts to fail, I will record it and post it so it can be heard.

Unrelated but a point to make: Years ago the company I worked for at the time had complaints about noise coming from electric motors. Some thought the noise to be a mechanical problem inside the motor, the motor got sent to a certified repair shop and sent back with no problem or I got an expense paid trip to go look and listen. The complaints turned out to be normal VFD noise and not a problem.
Now the point: I posted a sound file on the network so the Engineers in the office could learn what the VFD noise sounded like and email the sound file to contractors, other engineers, and operators.

Sorry about the problems and I wish you the best.

Good to hear from you Chris.

Bob V · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:30 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Boy, some bad luck there Chris...

Get the miller tool, it will make your life so much easier. Sorry, don't know any partnumber.

Ow I found it:

Ranger1 wrote:

Mine threaded on, but it needed a Miller Special tool, p/n 8433, unless I was willing to take the alternator apart. Even with the right tool, it was locked down pretty good and took a 24" extension bar to break it loose. Once loose, it comes off very easily.

The only gotcha is that the older decoupler (ends with an AC) is longer on the outer edge - this fits the 8433 tool perfectly. The newer decoupler ends with AE and is shorter on the outer rim - this causes the outer hex part of the 8433 to not fully engage. You have to be careful when tightening as it can slip and round the edges of the outer hex on the pulley.

I dont think that tool would have worked on mine. I have the 10mm external hex on the alternater shaft.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

It wouldn't surprise me if more than one type is used on the CRD. The FSM shows two different types of OAD's(page 8F-27), I happened to have the Litens style. If you're going to use the tool, you have to determine which type you have, the Littens or the INA, which has splines instead of the hex. The p/n listed for INA is Miller 8823.

If there is a third type, God help us all.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:05 pm

Thanks everyone.

Mine has the hex. It appears to simply have a regular right-hand thread and would come off if one could hold the alternator shaft still. How does the miller tool hold the shaft still?
I read in another thread (it was closed due to off-topic arguing) that some people simply put a hex fitting on an impact wrench.

Comments?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The round end (left side) in that picture has a 10mm hex shape inside and is one piece for the entire length of the tool. It mates to the smaller hex alternator shaft deep inside the pulley. The larger hex shape nut in the center of the tool slides along the smaller part and fits inside the hex opening on the alternator decoupler. One wrench on the larger outer hex turns the pulley while another wrench on the end holds the alternator shaft from moving.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:25 pm

Bob, you are looking at the wrong end of the tool

The outer hex is where you put your wrench on, the other side is a socket that will hold the 3/8- (almost 10mm) hex on the axle.

Ranger1, there are only 2 types, the hex or the splines. Most of us seem to have the hex type.

KeighJeigh, yes a big allen socket with an airpowered tool will take it right of.

Or you can take the alternator of your engine and then hammer the thing of. Someone needs to hold the alternator shaft with a 3/8 socket while you do that.

See the locked thread.

EDIT: Ranger1, you planning on making a habbit out of this? You beat me again in replying by ow....2 seconds

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:28 pm

KeighJeigh,

Did you experience any symptoms other than noise? I've had a strange intermittent rattle that I haven't been able to localize. It seems to be related to engine speed and is loudest at low speed...like idle. I also noticed recently that occasionally at night when coasting, right before the transmission downshifts, my headlights dim. This is what made me start thinking about the alternator, and this thread got me thinking about whether the occasional noise might be related. Did you experience any of this?

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:34 pm

Chester if you don't mind I'll jump in on this,

I searched like crazy for the squick I had before I figured out it was the decoupler. I thought it was an alternator bearing.

Here's what you do: with the engine at idle hold on end of a large screwdriver on the alternator body (carefull now!) and then you put your ear on the other end (preferably the handle

).

If you now hear your rattle noise very loud you can be almost sure it's the decoupler.

Note: KeighJeigh, you need to fasten te decoupler too. Before we start another 'torque specs' rant, either get the miller tool or give it a blow with an air tool.

Optional you can use a hex pipe (is that English?) like I did.

Some say you can tighten it by hand and it will be ok but for the obvious reasons we cannot take any responsability if it does fly of after 5 miles.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:48 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

.....some one could record the noise and post it :idea:

That way every one will know what to listen for.

If mine starts to fail, I will record it and post it so it can be heard.

I actually did this when I first heard the problem last summer. I posted it on Youtube and that is why people from the forum were able to immediately identify it as the alternator clutch.
Unfortunately, I removed it and cannot find it in my files....

I'll look further and re-post if I find it.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:52 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Chester if you don't mind I'll jump in on this,
I searched like crazy for the squick I had before I figured out it was the decoupler. I thought it was an alternator bearing.
Here's what you do: with the engine at idle hold on end of a large screwdriver on the alternator body (carefull now!) and then you put your ear on the other end (preferably the handle

).
If you now hear your rattle noise very loud you can be almost sure it's the decoupler.
Note: KeighJeigh, you need to fasten te decoupler too. Before we start another 'torque specs' rant, either get the miller tool or give it a blow with an air tool.
Optional you can use a hex pipe (is that English?) like I did.

Some say you can tighten it by hand and it will be ok but for the obvious reasons we cannot take any responsability if it does fly of after 5 miles.

Thanks Tony.
It may not need it, but whether it needs it or not, I may torque it because it certainly won't hurt anything to do so. But I'm not as worried about getting it back on as I am getting it off in the first place.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Tony,

Good to know there are only 2 types. Funny how this works - I didn't see your post show up for quite a while after mine. You can tell when its freezing cold outside - more people staying inside and online racing for posting times.

To answer the noise questions, especially the one on recording the noise, mine didn't sound like it was making any until a drop to 10*F happened. Then the decoupler starting shrieking, like an old waterpump bearing going out. There was no doubt about where the noise was coming from and it was very loud. Until it did that, I had no idea it was in trouble. When it warmed up to 40*F later that day, the noise disappeared. I changed it anyway and then I noticed the entire front end was quieter. The overall noise level is just lower. There wasn't any particular noise with the old one prior to the squealing episode, just a lot of mechanical sound appearing to come from all of the pulleys. It wasn't I changed the decoupler that I noticed that it was quieter.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:53 pm

KeighJeigh, Don't know if you have a lot of stuff on youtube but if you log in you should be able to see what you uploaded...

Anyway, I suppose it's very cold where you are right now so taking the alternator of the engine and work on it inside may be your best option.
Don't worry about getting it of, if you have a hammer you can.

Ranger1, I am at home now and here I have the slowest internet connection known to all mankind so that might be the delay we are getting

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:59 pm

ChesterCRD wrote:

KeighJeigh,

Did you experience any symptoms other than noise? I've had a strange intermittent rattle that I haven't been able to localize. It seems to be related to engine speed and is loudest at low speed...like idle. I also noticed recently that occasionally at night when coasting, right before the transmission downshifts, my headlights dim. This is what made me start thinking about the alternator, and this thread got me thinking about whether the occasional noise might be related. Did you experience any of this?

I bet it is indeed the alternator pulley. (I guess the correct term is "decoupler"?)
Yes, I did have slight dimming of the headlights - as if the alternator was not quite as strong as it should be. In hindsight I now know it was because the clutch was starting to slip. Once it completely decoupled last night, it no longer spun the alternator and the lights dimmed dramatically until the engine stalled.
The rattle was most evident at idle and was worst when it was hot outside. Sometimes it seemed barely audible and at other times it was quite loud. The sound was nearly impossible for me to pinpoint even using a listening stick.
Another symptom was the idler pulley bouncing around rather violently. As a comparison, my wife's 06 idler pulley is perfectly steady.

I'd change it before you are stranded as I was.

- Chris

Bob V · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:06 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Bob, you are looking at the wrong end of the tool

The outer hex is where you put your wrench on, the other side is a socket that will hold the 3/8- (almost 10mm) hex on the axle.

Ranger1, there are only 2 types, the hex or the splines. Most of us seem to have the hex type.

KeighJeigh, yes a big allen socket with an airpowered tool will take it right of.

Or you can take the alternator of your engine and then hammer the thing of. Someone needs to hold the alternator shaft with a 3/8 socket while you do that.

See the locked thread.

EDIT: Ranger1, you planning on making a habbit out of this? You beat me again in replying by ow....2 seconds

OK got it. It looks like the tool in the FSM that is for the internal spline on the shaft. My FSM shows two types of decouplers, hex and spline, and two types of alternator shafts, hex and spline. I was able to get mine off by holding the shaft with a deep 10mm socket and ratchet and then hit a shollow hole that was drilled off center on the face with a hammer and a punch in a CCW rotation.

From the factory service Manual (was hopeing that it would copy the pictures also)
OPERATION
The generator decoupler is used only with
certain engines. The decoupler (Fig. 5) is a one-way
clutch designed to help reduce belt tension fluctuation,
vibration, reduce fatigue loads, improve belt life,
reduce hubloads on components, and reduce noise.
Dry operation is used (no grease or lubricants). The
decoupler is not temperature sensitive and also has a
low sensitivity to electrical load. The decoupler is a
non-serviceable item and is to be replaced as an
assembly.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - GENERATOR DECOUPLER
CONDITION POSSIBLE CAUSES CORRECTION
Does not drive generator
(generator not charging)
Internal failure Replace decoupler
Noise coming from
decoupler
Internal failure Replace decoupler
REMOVAL
The generator decoupler is used only with
certain engines.
Two different type generator decoupler pulleys are
used. One can be identified by the use of machined
splines (Fig. 6). The other can be identified by a hex
opening (Fig. 7) and will not use splines.
Different special tools are required to service each
different decoupler. Refer to following procedure.
Fig. 6 GENERATOR DECOUPLER PULLEY (INA)
1 - GENERATOR
2 - DECOUPLER (INA)
3 - MACHINED SPLINES
Fig. 7 GENERATOR DECOUPLER PULLEY (LITENS)
1 - DECOUPLER (LITENS)
2 - HEX OPENING
KJ CHARGING SYSTEM 8F - 27
GENERATOR DECOUPLER PULLEY (Continued)
INA Decoupler
(1) Disconnect negative battery cable.
(2) Remove generator and accessory drive belt.
Refer to Generator Removal.
(3) Position Special Tool #8823 (VM.1048) into
decoupler (Fig.

.
(4) Determine if end of generator shaft is hex
shaped (Fig. 9) or is splined (Fig. 10). If hex is used,
insert a 10MM deep socket into tool #8823 (VM.1048)
(Fig. 11). If splined, insert a 5/16” 6-point hex driver,
or a 10MM 12-point triple square driver into tool
#8823 (VM.1048) (Fig. 12).
(5) The generator shaft uses conventional righthand
threads to attach decoupler. To break decoupler
loose from generator threads, rotate end of tool clockwise
(Fig. 11) or, (Fig. 12).
(6) After breaking loose with tool, unthread decoupler
by hand from generator.
Fig. 8 #8823 TOOL AND INA DECOUPLER
1 - INA DECOUPLER
2 - TOOL #8823 (VM.1048)
Fig. 9 END OF GENERATOR SHAFT (HEX)
1 - GENERATOR SHAFT
2 - HEX
Fig. 10 END OF GENERATOR SHAFT (SPLINED)
1 - GENERATOR SHAFT
2 - SPLINES
8F - 28 CHARGING SYSTEM KJ
GENERATOR DECOUPLER PULLEY (Continued)
Litens Decoupler
(1) Disconnect negative battery cable.
(2) Remove generator and accessory drive belt.
Refer to Generator Removal.
(3) Position Special Tool #8433 (Fig. 13) into
decoupler. Align to hex end of generator shaft.
(4) The generator shaft uses conventional righthand
threads to attach decoupler. To break decoupler
loose from generator threads, rotate end of tool clockwise
(Fig. 14).
(5) After breaking loose with tool, unthread decoupler
by hand from generator.
Fig. 11 DECOUPLER REMOVAL (INA-HEX)
1 - DEEP 10 MM SOCKET
2 - TOOL #8823 (VM.1048)
Fig. 12 DECOUPLER REMOVAL (INA-SPLINED)
1 - DRIVER
2 - TOOL #8823 (VM.1048)
3 - 17 MM WRENCH
Fig. 13 # 8433 TOOL AND LITENS DECOUPLER
Fig. 14 DECOUPLER REMOVAL (LITENS)
KJ CHARGING SYSTEM 8F - 29
GENERATOR DECOUPLER PULLEY (Continued)
INSTALLATION
INA Decoupler
(1) Thread decoupler pulley onto generator shaft
by hand (right-hand threads).
(2) Position Special Tool #8823 (VM.1048) into
decoupler (Fig.

.
(3) Determine if end of generator shaft is hex
shaped (Fig. 9) or is splined (Fig. 10). If hex is used,
insert a 10MM deep socket into tool #8823 (VM.1048)
(Fig. 15). If splined, insert a 5/16” 6-point hex driver,
or a 10MM 12-point triple square driver into tool
#8823 (VM.1048) (Fig. 16).
(4) Do not use an adjustable, ratcheting “click
type” torque wrench. Most “click type”
wrenches will only allow torque to be applied
in a clockwise rotation. Use a dial-type or
beam-type wrench. Tighten in counter-clockwise
rotation (Fig. 15) or, (Fig. 16). Refer to torque specifications.
(5) Install accessory drive belt, and generator.
Refer to Generator Installation.
(6) Connect negative battery cable.
Litens Decoupler
(1) Thread decoupler pulley onto generator shaft
by hand (right-hand threads).
(2) Position Special Tool 8433 (Fig. 13) into decoupler.
Align tool to hex end of generator shaft.
(3) Do not use an adjustable, ratcheting “click
type” torque wrench. Most “click type”
wrenches will only allow torque to be applied
in a clockwise rotation. Use a dial-type or
beam-type wrench. Tighten in counter-clockwise
rotation (Fig. 17). Refer to torque specifications.
(4) Install accessory drive belt, and generator.
Refer to Generator Installation.
(5) Connect negative battery cable.
Fig. 15 DECOUPLER INSTALLATION (INA-HEX)
1 - 10MM DEEP SOCKET
2 - TOOL # 8823 (VM.1048)
Fig. 16 DECOUPLER INSTALLATION (INA SPLINED)
1 - DRIVER
2 - TOOL # 8823 (VM.1048)
3 - BACKUP WRENCH
Fig. 17 DECOUPLER INSTALLATION (Litens)

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Once it completely decoupled last night, it no longer spun the alternator and the lights dimmed dramatically until the engine stalled.

Just out of curiosity, about how long did your battery last before the engine stalled? I hope I don't need to use that info some day, but it might come in handy.

Alternator clutch pulley warning

Who is online