MB Dealers Have Morons Too!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:41 am

It may be cold comfort, but at least CJD dealers don't have a monopoly on idiots in the service department.

Took the '87 up to the MB dealer in Hickory back on Tuesday for a major maintenance appointment. Knew that it would be expensive, but figured as a one-time deal to make sure that engine was healthy and get a good overall evaluation of the rest of the vehicle, find any areas I hadn't spotted and needed to be corrected down the road, might be worth it.

I had 8 quarts of Mobil 1 5W40 in the trunk, and from changing the oil myself, expected at least 1 full quart back, more like 1 1/2 quarts.

When I picked it up this morning, I checked the trunk, and nothing there. I was slightly peeved, figured some tech had scored himself a free quart of oil. But needing to get back home, I wrote off the quart of oil to lessons learned.

I pulled out of the dealership and went down 2 blocks to a gas station to get 3 gallons of dino to get back home (they'd drained and flushed the fuel tank and changed the strainer, putting the minimum amount of fuel back in).

I popped the hood to check the work they'd done on the engine before leaving the immediate area (new timing chain and #6 injector). I pulled out the engine oil dipstick, wiped it off, and checked the level.....

1 1/2 INCHES ABOVE THE FULL MARK!!!!! I checked it 3 times, not believing that the tech had been that f#####g stupid. They had put the entire 8 quarts in the engine, and apparently never bothered to check the dipstick! After the money I had just spent having them go over the beast, and then to find this, "pissed off" would have been the understatement of the century describing my mood.

I went back the 2 blocks to the dealer, found the service advisor, and told him calmly "WE have a PROBLEM". I described what I'd found. To his credit, he came out to the car, popped the hood, and checked the oil himself. Twice. He could hardly believe it either. His face took on a look that said "I'm gonna chew somebody's butt!". Without saying a word, he replaced the dipstick, closed the hood, and made a beeline for the service bay. About 2 minutes later, he came back, got in the car, and drove it into the service bay. A minute or two later he came back and told me not to worry, everything was being taken care of.

Apparently the tech had checked the service manual which said that total oil capacity was 8 quarts, not realizing that on an '87 300D the remote mounted engine oil cooler and lines retained 1 to 1 1/2 quarts with everything else drained down, and simply dumped in the stated quantity as he was used to doing on newer models.

The nasty thought did cross my mind to walk back in the service bay with the dipstick, find the young gent, and politely ask him "Have you ever seen one of THESE before?". :twisted:

About an hour later, the SA pulled the car back out front, now with the oil at the proper level, no additional charge (d##n well better not have been!). Being literally within minutes of being late for work, there wasn't time to quibble over getting a quart of oil back out of them, just to hop in and start the 45 mile trek back home, change clothes, and rush to work.

So for those of us that have experienced just how infinitely obtuse the service dept at a CJD dealership can be, take heart - looks as though DC has decided to share the wealth across the board.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:35 am

Stupidity abounds eh!
I really could understand the tech not nowing about the oil cooler thing, but to not check the dipstick, thats just unreal.

Torque Monster · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:18 pm

Mitchell,

I went and checked my W124 service manual and the correct fill amount for an oil & filter change on your ’87 300D-T is 7.5L or 7.9 qts. The fill amount was lowered from the 8L/8.45 qts. listed in the owner’s manual by a TSB in '91. 8 quarts should have put the level under the max point on the dipstick, which is 8.45 qts.

Because the oil cooler does not drain, it is not included in the above fill amount(s).

When you changed the oil previously, 6 1/2 quarts registered full on the dipstick?

Are you SURE you have the correct dipstick for your engine? The handle should be black.
It would perhaps be interesting to see how a new one read.

Chris

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:58 pm

Torque Monster wrote:

Mitchell,

I went and checked my W124 service manual and the correct fill amount for an oil & filter change on your ’87 300D-T is 7.5L or 7.9 qts. The fill amount was lowered from the 8L/8.45 qts. listed in the owner’s manual by a TSB in '91. 8 quarts should have put the level under the max point on the dipstick, which is 8.45 qts.

Because the oil cooler does not drain, it is not included in the above fill amount(s).

When you changed the oil previously, 6 1/2 quarts registered full on the dipstick?

Are you SURE you have the correct dipstick for your engine? The handle should be black.
It would perhaps be interesting to see how a new one read.

Chris

Yep, black handle on the dipstick, matter of fact it's the original dipstick that came with the car.

I know, I have both the electronic version of the W124 service library on hard drive and the Bentley Owners Bible, which agree with what you're saying.

But, when I changed it myself, somewhere between 6 1/2 to 7 quarts put it at the max mark. And, it was at the max mark when I drained it hot, and was surprised when a 7 quart drain container just held everything that drained out.

There was a receipt from the previous owner still in the glovebox, from February of this year. He had it serviced at a Texaco quick lube, and it listed the same, 6 1/2 quarts for refill.

I checked it this morning, after it had sat all night and drained back down. Even with what they drained out, it was still over the top of the upper orange plastic marker, the max mark being at the bottom of the marker.

With the oil at this level and the 45 mile drive on the interstate home, it showed signs that this level was still too high - enough pressure to start forcing oil out past the fill cap gasket and the breather hose grommet, never had a problem with that in the last 3000 miles.

Think I'll pop over to the MB forum and ask some of the other 603 owners if they've ran into this same problem.

jinstall · **Posted:** Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:52 am

Nice to see some MB owners that know what they drive.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:52 am

Well, it looks like both of us, the tech and myself, are right and wrong.

The engine does take 8 quarts with a normal oil and filter change. However I'm also right in that 6 to 7 quarts puts it at the fill mark, and 8 quarts puts the level well over the fill mark on the dipstick.

WTF?

My explanation, waiting on confirmation from mbusa.com - this engine has a canister type oil filter mounted on the top rear of the engine, such that the pump has to send oil all the way to the rear and top of the engine to fill the associated piping and filter. the oil pressure gauge sender is also mounted on the oil filter housing.

It uses a 2 section filter, with a full flow and bypass section. there is a tube that screws into the center of the cover, with a small drilled passage at the top and o-ring seals at the bottom, that allows a small amount of oil to travel thru the bypass section and back to the sump. If the o-rings at the bottom of this tube are not sealing to the housing correctly, it would allow most of the oil in the filter housing to drain back to the sump when shutdown ( and probably significantly reduce oil pressure to the engine when running, evidenced by noisy lifters, and mine clatter like the devil).

Also, in the base of the filter housing, are both an inlet and outlet reverse flow check valve. If these are not sealing, it would allow the entire oil filter housing and the supply piping from the pump to drain back down to the sump when shut down.

I've also noticed that after the engine cranks, it's often on the order of 2 to 3 seconds before the oil pressure gauge responds, then a gradual swing to full pressure taking about 2 seconds. That sounds to me like the oil pump is having to refill an empty filter and supply piping, given that the oil pressure sender is located on the filter housing.

If the filter and supply piping are supposed to remain full when shut down, but is instead draining back down to the sump, that would explain why my engine appears to be grossly overfilled with the nominal 8 quarts.

I've asked on one of the MB forums, and all the owners there with the same 603 engine gave the same answer - 8 quarts put them right at the max mark after refilling and running the engine.

I did my own test to verify this. I started and ran the engine until up to temp, then shut it down, waited 10 minutes, and checked the level. I then pulled the bypass tube out of the filter housing. If the filter was full of oil, pulling this tube should have allowed a significant amount of oil (probably close to a quart) to drain back to the sump and produce a significant change in level. If it was already drained down, there would be no change.

After 10 minutes, I checked the level again. No change whatsoever. The oil filter was already drained down before I pulled the tube.

Looks like I've got some troubleshooting to do on this beast.

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:18 pm

I think I am going to need pictures for this one! I dont completely understand the setup but --IF-- <(see the big if?) the check valves you mentioned are in the filter or supposed to be in the filter, could it be that the filters no longer meet specs?

What kind of a filter does this thing have?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:00 pm

I think the proper term is a cartridge type filter. It has a metal housing that is permanently bolted to the engine, with a 2 bolt cover on top. You're really only changing the filter ELEMENT when you change the filter, just the media itself. You undo the two bolt cover and pull it off, pull out the old cartridge, slide in a new one, then bolt the cover back on.

The check valves I mentioned are built into the base of the metal housing. You'd have to unbolt the housing from the engine to access them. In other words, this isn't a normal maintenance item - they should be good for the life of the engine under normal circumstances.

But apparently, mine have seen something other than normal circumstances. When I changed oil the first time, the two bolt cover was sealed with a hefty amount of RTV, in addition to the normal o-ring, that had been mashed down along the inside of the cover. :shock:

Could be there's some chunks of that crap lodged in the check valves.

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:05 pm

Ahh, I see. Sounds like its time for an exploratory surgery :lol:

Good luck, and hopefully you can find the valves/seals you need.

MB Dealers Have Morons Too!

Who is online