Need help with Head gasket, arp studs or moving on.

JDaPP · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:27 pm

I have been dealing with grey sludge in my coolant for about a month and a half. I thought it was mixed coolant but now that has turned into grey sludge with oil and the oil appears to have coolant in it. I am suspecting head gasket, there is a lot of information about the issue but I have not been able to find a good write up about the procedure for changing it out (I may have missed it). I looked through the service manual but it was not as clear to me as a lot of the write ups on here. I am not a mechanic but I have done some items (cvs, thermostat, glow plugs, alternator, etc.) but certainly not an expert.
Along those lines can I just change out the bolts with arp studs to see if it fixes the problem? How hard is the arp stud job/is there a good write up with pictures?

JDaPP · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:27 pm

I have talked with several folks here about traveling for repairs as well as talking to mechanics in the area (San Diego). Unfortunately timeline + travel limits some options for me right now. I am also concerned if it turns into a larger issue and need follow up. Locally I have talked to one mechanic who has experience with the crd and also to a mechanic in Phoenix. All options with others doing work will be at least $2000.
According to Kelly blue book my Jeep would be worth $4500-$6500 (limited, loaded, 117k miles). If it were running I would probably ask somewhere around $6k as it is great shape and has been well taken care of. In its current state what would most say is a realistic price tag if I just moved on and sold it? No known other problems, one owner, transgo shift kit last summer, cv axles just replaced, AT tires less then 3k, front brakes just replaced, gde eco tune, etc.
$2k, $1k, less? I am mostly just concerned about putting in more than vehicle is worth.

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:00 pm

I'm in San Diego. I can help you out.

Mike

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:02 pm

Could be the engine oil cooler, symptoms can be very similar....oil in coolant, and coolant in oil.... :idea:

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:21 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Could be the engine oil cooler, symptoms can be very similar....oil in coolant, and coolant in oil.... :idea:

It's worth checking for sure.

Mike

JDaPP · **Posted:** Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:41 pm

Would there be pressure in the coolant system with engine oil cooler issue? It failed the cold engine test is why I ask. Would the whole cooler need to be changed out or just the gasket?

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:13 am

I don't think there would be any pressure if it was just the oil cooler leaking.

Mike

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:28 pm

If you have a oil cooler leak:
While the motor is running; oil pressure is much greater than coolant pressure and therefor would force hot oil into the cooling system...

When motor is stopped; oil system pressure goes to 0 psig since the oil pump has stopped rotating, but the cooling system is still under several pounds of pressure due to coolant temperatures and could force coolant (antifreeze) via a leak into the oil cooler and / or oil system...

And that is the phenomenon as to why with a oil cooler leak you can get oil in the cooling system, and coolant in the oil lubricating system! :banghead:

Unfortunately: A head gasket leak or a cracked head between an oil passage and a coolant passage could create and allow the same results. :roll:

JDaPP · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:44 pm

Copy and thanks for the explanation. I assume that replacing oil cooler gasket fixes the oil cooler problem?

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

WWDiesel wrote:

If you have a oil cooler leak:
While the motor is running; oil pressure is much greater than coolant pressure and therefor would force hot oil into the cooling system...

When motor is stopped; oil system pressure goes to 0 psig since the oil pump has stopped rotating, but the cooling system is still under several pounds of pressure due to coolant temperatures and could force coolant (antifreeze) via a leak into the oil cooler and / or oil system...

And that is the phenomenon as to why with a oil cooler leak you can get oil in the cooling system, and coolant in the oil lubricating system! :banghead:

Unfortunately: A head gasket leak or a cracked head between an oil passage and a coolant passage could create and allow the same results. :roll:

This is a very good explanation of this problem. I agree, this can be the reason for JDaPP's oil-in-coolant and coolant-in-oil problem. I would start by checking out if the oil cooler and/or oil cooler gasket is at fault. It may not simply be the oil cooler gasket, as oil coolers have been known to leak, (VW diesels can have this problem).

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:58 am

If it was the head gasket, and you did arp's without changing the gasket and it did not fix the problem, would that not be a waste of arp's? Arnt they TTY?

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flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:31 am

mass-hole wrote:

If it was the head gasket, and you did arp's without changing the gasket and it did not fix the problem, would that not be a waste of arp's? Arnt they TTY?

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ARP studs are not torque to yield.
ARP studs are reusable.

JDaPP · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:11 pm

Machine shop says head had a "low spot" on one of the corners and it was clear that was where leak was coming from.
While I have the head off getting ready to put it together I notice that the holes right next to where the studs will go (4 around each cylinder) are starting to show signs of rust. Do I need to treat that or once head is back on is it a non issue?

JDaPP · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:12 pm

Also what do folks recommend to clean the block with?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:49 pm

If you are talking about the top of the block where the head sets? A can of brake cleaner, a good scraper knife, a wire brush, and a piece of 400 grit sandpaper wrapped about a small block of wood are all good cleaning aids that will really clean it good... You can also put some wadded up paper towels down in the cylinder bores while cleaning top of block to protect the cylinder liners, just be sure and remove them before installing head!!!! :roll:

Be sure and use either some Copper Coat Gasket Compound or some Permatex High Tack Gasket Sealant Compound on the head gasket before re-installing... :wink:

Either of these products will fill any small voids and help bond the gasket to the block and head...Good Stuff!!!!

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:07 pm

Coat all 4 sides evenly with Copper-Kote before assembly. It is like a copper spray paint, and works GREAT.

Try to avoid using any bladed scrapers that are metal, you don't want to gouge the top of the block. Steel wool is a great option, as are scrubby pads to remove any old coating or light scaling. The surface just needs to be smooth, it doesn't need to be shiny. The rust is actually a protectant, and the copper kote will cover / fill / seal it up and it won't degrade any further.

JDaPP · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:11 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

If you are talking about the top of the block where the head sets? A can of brake cleaner, a good scraper knife, a wire brush, and a piece of 400 grit sandpaper wrapped about a small block of wood are all good cleaning aids that will really clean it good... You can also put some wadded up paper towels down in the cylinder bores while cleaning top of block to protect the cylinder liners, just be sure and remove them before installing head!!!! :roll:

Be sure and use either some Copper Coat Gasket Compound or some Permatex High Tack Gasket Sealant Compound on the head gasket before re-installing... :wink:

Either of these products will fill any small voids and help bond the gasket to the block and head...Good Stuff!!!!

Yep that's the spot. Thanks.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:44 pm

Burgundy scotch brite pads and elbow grease will remove most of that corrosion.

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geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:58 pm

WolverineFW wrote:

Burgundy scotch brite pads and elbow grease will remove most of that corrosion.

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I don't know... I feel like the burgundy will be too rough for the deck, you don't want to scratch it b/c then the copper kote has more things to seal up. Are the green scotchbrite pads (those were the ones I was thinking of anyway) lighter or stronger than the burgundy? Whichever is less-rough... That is the one you want to use on the top surface. Yes, you might have to scrub a little longer, but there is far less chance of doing damage than with something too strong.

400 grit sandpaper (wet) is definitely a good finish though. For the bottom of the head, remember it is soft aluminum, so you can use the same stuff, but don't grind too much elbow grease into it, eh?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:17 pm

The green Scotch Brite Pads are less abrasive than the dark red ones... :!:

Need help with Head gasket, arp studs or moving on.

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