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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Science and Energy wrote:
I just got it to set but it did this weird pivot thing like a cam action to be in the proper spot. When I torqued it, it stayed. Is this normal?
The bolt is what holds the tensioner in position. Basically you want to install the bolt loosely, get the tensioner set, and then torque the bolt down with one hand while holding the tensioner in position with the other.

Science and Energy wrote:
Too bad, it looks like its in good condition and turns very smooth.
I'd replace it anyway. I made that assumption on another vehicle a few years ago - tensioner seemed to be in good condition and turned smoothly. About 48,000 miles later, the tensioner pulley's bearings blew up and the belt was just riding across the locked up pulley. When I pulled the timing cover, there were ball bearings everywhere. Luckily the belt held up and the valvetrain never lost time (was an interference engine), so all I had to do was throw in a new belt and tensioner and it was good to go. But not something I'd risk again.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Looking at that picture.... Wow, someone really leveled up on their bonehead skill. How the heck did they do that without modifying things?

There is a barrier cast into the aluminum backing plate that the "tower" of the tensioner is pointing toward. It is at the 11:30 position above the tensioner. The spring is supposed to use that barrier as a backstop, so that the end of the spring is pointed toward the 10 o'clock position. Then you use the handle tool to grab the two small holes around the center of the tensioner and rotate it clockwise to add tension. As you will see, the "tower" will rotate and the correct place to stop for initial tension is with the spring rod behind the left tower, and the gap between them just to the right of the rod.

After you rotate the engine two revolutions, the spring should have taken up the slack and the tower will end up with the rod right below that gap in the end of the tower (the "window") and that is correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Does that water pump look new to you? It would have been replaced 15k miles ago. I don't think that pulley is OEM style but I need you guys to tell me if it looks aftermarket. Both idlers have a little play in them and the tensioner is going to be replaced. darn I wish I would have simply bought the whole kit now and just replaced the pump with everything else. I already bought the belt. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:53 pm 
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That pump does not look new.
The pulley looks like a normal factory pulley.

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Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
Cheap 1 inch lift, 245-75R-16 tires.
Still love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:03 pm 
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I would do very bad things to the seller if he was here with me now.

HE LIED ABOUT THE TIMING BELT BEING CHANGED!

I will piece a whole kit now. Do you guys not buy crown anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Yeah, the amount of corrosion on that and on the tensioner... That is an original belt, 80+% certainty. Not the first time someone has been lied to by a seller.

This is why we tell everyone that unless they have *proof* that the work has been done... Do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Well, I will need to wait for parts but ordering piece by piece I can get OEM tensioner and idlers, gates belt, and graf pump shipped for 75 less than if I would have just bought the kit from ID parts. I don't really mind reusing the cover gasket. It looks fine and is not critical. At least that helps...... slightly.

Next, Lets get a look at those valves. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:19 pm 
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when i took my engine apart to inspect rockers at 100.000 miles , only one rocker was loose (roller bearing) , but i removed the cylinder head and sent it to the machine shop so they cleaned valves and seats and new guide seals , cylinder liners where in good shape . 2 injectors needed to be replaced , turbo had some in and out play but steel normal , for some reason i didn't have head gasket problems , but i replaced anyway, so it is your call i just want it to removed and inspect it .


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:33 pm 
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I believe the tensioner bearing fails, causing the weirdness and tracking problems with the belt. When it gets bad enough, it plays heck with the rockers due to the resulting effect on the cam sprockets and an improperly tensioned belt.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 145Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

So here are the pictures. They speak volumes. Two rockers are toast. Many of the others are worn out. The exhaust cam has marring. I found most of the rocker pieces with a magnetic tool. Part of the rocker needle bearing housing is gone. I'm guessing the pieces are in the passages or in the pan.

There are two pics to show others how the cam lock pins work.

This is the filth in the intake manifold. Any recommendation of how to clean it?
I'm guessing the exhaust cam needs replaced?

:(

IF YOU HAVE 100K AND HAVE NOT REPLACED YOUR ROCKERS, YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT!

The EGR is now gone (Weeks kit and GDE Eco tune) and I think I will be installing a bypass oil filter, the improved rockers, an oil catch can, timing belt kit, water pump, thermostat, lower radiator hose, aux transmission cooler, oil change, and ARP head studs. I will possibly install a Webasto heater in the future.

The rearend was making noise so it will need rebuild and I will be putting in a Detroit trutrac clutchless posi and possibly a new cover to accommodate easier fluid changes/more fluid.

This sucks right now. It is expensive. I am trying to focus on the end result. :dizzy:
These engines are a mess from the factory. Not bad after you fix their mistakes but this is a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:22 pm 
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ANYONE HAVE A GOOD USED EXHAUST CAM FOR CHEAP?


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:26 am 
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I bought a whole new head on mine, and put new cams in as well. it started and idled fine but all the oil going through the engine did not allow revving at all. (motor oil was flowing out the end of the exhaust pipe.)

Anyhoo yah I have some used cams that had no broken rollers and as far as I can tell no discernible wear.

[edit] Just to be clear, the cams I removed are the OLD design that use the thrust washer / spacer. I have the spacers with both cams. You should get new front and rear seals though. (the rear is more of a plug than a seal really)

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 145Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:56 am 
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Science and Energy wrote:
ANYONE HAVE A GOOD USED EXHAUST CAM FOR CHEAP?


I have a couple - Send me an email with an offer and we can talk. I'm about to fly out on Saturday for a conference (be back Wednesday but leaving again) so if you want it, it would be best to do it tomorrow (Friday) or it will be delayed. The valve covers are already pulled so I just need to remove the cam or send the whole thing if you wanted that.

_________________
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Provider of high quality CRD service in your driveway.
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email (button below) is preferred to PM
Over 70 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:30 am 
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Yay, a sense of progress.... the ARP studs are in.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:58 am 
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A heads up to anyone having to order parts for the CRD motor. European parts are often cheaper. They take about 7 days to arrive in my experience (standard shipping).


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:44 pm 
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I have ordered the camshaft from Germany. So..... how do these things come out? Is there a hidden snap ring or something? :?:

I have ordered a new seal kit and will also be sure to compare the old cam to the replacement. Newer version don't use a spacer which was common on many if not all of the originals in our CRDs.


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:44 pm 
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I've never removed them, but the service manual says the snap rings are behind the oil seals, which are located at the front of the valve cover. If you don't have a copy of the service manual, it's available here: http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/2005JeepKJServiceManual.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:54 pm 
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At the front of the cam you first remove the seal. It can be a bit of trouble.
Behind the seal you will find a snap ring
remove the snap ring and you will find a spacer / thrust washer. DON'T LOSE THIS! You probably don't know for sure which cam version you are getting. To have and not need is WAY better than to need and not have.
At this point you can look at the seal / plug at the rear of the cam. If you are careful removing, they can be re-used, but they are not expensive, and IDParts has them.

Once that is out, the cam goes out the back of the valve cover.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 145Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am
Posts: 84
Thanks for that info. That back plug makes sense now. I just figured it was part of machining it and that it would slide out the front. I have already ordered new plugs and seals from IDparts. I just have to wait for the new camshaft. I might paint the valve cover while it is off so that it is fancy like. Any tips on removing the front seals?


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 Post subject: Re: Just bought Jeep, I think the rockers just failed!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Posts: 916
Location: N. Muddle Oregon Coast
Patience
Lots and lots of patience.
Get too carried away and you'll be looking for a way to repair a gouged aluminum seal seat.

Same with the snap ring. It's an OD snap ring in a very small outside opening, and a really awkward access, so I had to try several combinations of snap ring pliers, and pics before I got them off

Would be so much easier if they had more room to spread the snap rings open.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 145Kmi

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING

IDParts New
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GPs

Flowmaster 942550
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15017911
2010 Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
AHS 45T TC
Cooper 51770

Future plans: GDE Trans&Hot-tune


Top
 Profile  
 
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