Whistle and black smoke under load

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:48 am

Cheapest and best is to install a plug or build a simple blockoff plate. There are tons of posts in here giving details for that.

BSG · **Posted:** Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:53 pm

Well had it towed to another shop that does a lot of diesel work. Heck, one dealer never bothered to call me back after asking him about mechanics' experience with this engine. Guess they didn't want to bother with it. It'll be two weeks before this shop can even look at it.

BSG · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:46 am

Well the shop got to looking at it. Found the timing off and a stretched belt. Belt was replaced 40K ago too. Said he'd be happy to do an egr delete while he's in there. That's been 5 months now the Jeep has been laid up.

BSG · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:19 am

Well, the mechanic says the engine is "toast". He'd prefer to throw in a different engine rather than rebuilding mine. On to the search for a long block. FCA took the long block out of their inventory last March. Found an Italian site offering blocks but they emailed saying they were out of stock. Anybody have any leads for a rebuilt engine? Thanks.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:18 pm

BSG wrote:

Well, the mechanic says the engine is "toast". He'd prefer to throw in a different engine rather than rebuilding mine. On to the search for a long block. FCA took the long block out of their inventory last March. Found an Italian site offering blocks but they emailed saying they were out of stock. Anybody have any leads for a rebuilt engine? Thanks.

whoa whoa whoa, back up. How did you go from "stretched belt" to "engine is toast"? The only way the engine is toast is if the valves contacted the pistons and caused serious damage, or if contaminants got in the oil and ruined the bottom end. You would likely know if either of these were the case, because both result in very identifiable noises. Valve contact is sudden and catastrophic and usually results in you pulling over and shutting the vehicle off immediately, followed by a change of shorts. Lower end failure sounds like someone hitting the bottom side of the engine with a large brass hammer and can come on slowly over time as the bearings get worse and worse. I apologize if either of these have been identified, I don't have the time right now to re-read this entire thread (on my break at work). In all likelihood, the head and gasket need to be replaced with a known good unit which is WAY cheaper and easier than installing a new block.

What is your mechanic basing this determination on?

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:17 pm

Sounds like you may need to re-think your latest choice of shop...

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:22 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Sounds like you may need to re-think your latest choice of shop...

X2! Facts don't add up.... :shock:

BSG · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:42 pm

Thanks for the replies. I kinda got to the "crux of the biscuit". I should've given more background info in the latest post.
Mechanic threw the new belt on and got it started. It was thumping along and coughing exhaust through the intake. He said he opened it up and found the inside just full of sludge (my mind's eye was giving me the impression of peanut butter). He also mentioned that the lifters and rockers were coated (with a glaze?) that the oil got contaminated. He said that with his experience when he found this on TDI engines that after rebuilding, they came back after about 10K miles with crankshaft problems. That is why he would rather swap than rebuild.
Now this is after a shop in the Front Range did the turbo, belt, EGR, rockers, etc., 40K miles ago. Oh, and he also found when the glow plugs were replaced, they did three out of four. I had one original glow plug. Side note: I had loud knocking after the previous shop replaced the latest turbo.
There isn't a lot of mechanics around here willing to even look at the Jeep. The dealer just down the block from this shop would'nt even look at it. One of the local auto parts stores gave their recommendation of this shop. My alternative was to tow it over 90 minutes away to another diesel shop who never worked on one. Other diesel shops I called wouldn't look at it or even return my calls. Customer Service ain't big around here.
So now I'm on a quest for a long block that FCA removed from their inventory in March though I can get a complete engine for $10,000.00 plus a core charge. Even if I was rolling in dough, it doesn't make sense to throw in a 10K engine into a Jeep even if it's pristine that with my luck an elk will walk in front of me and I'll get blue book from the insurance company. If I don't find anything, I'll probably have it towed home and learn a new hobby rebuilding my engine in my leisure time. That will be a feat since the last thing I really worked on had plugs, points, and a condenser.
Thanks again for the comments and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:10 pm

There is a lot going on here. I honestly think you need to dust off your wrenches. As stated before, if you rely on a mechanic to keep a CRD running you'll end up minus one CRD and a significantly lighter wallet. Regardless of the condition of the bottom end, if it was expelling exhaust through the intake tract, it was timed wrong. Your mechanic can say "but, but, but" all day long and it will never change that fact. It was likely done wrong by someone who is used to timing more conventional diesel motors and thought they could just slap it together and go. I would be willing to bet this is the majority of your problem. I would not be the least bit surprised if your intake was, in fact, full of sludge. Not so much peanut butter, but more like creosote in a chimney if you've ever had the experience. This is common in vehicles that have had the EGR enabled for extended periods. It can be fixed with a simple bath in a tub full of diesel and a little elbow grease. Being a diesel, everything in the motor is ALWAYS going to have a "glaze" of soot-laden oil. Par for the course.

Regarding the knock. You said it has had it since the previous shop replaced the turbo over 40k ago? Explain this knock a little better if you can. If your turbo blew all the oil out the exhaust and left you with a spun bearing(s) on the crank, then yes, you're S.O.L. with your current block. This is something you may or may not be able to confirm if you decide to tear it down to the cylinders at some point but that is for later discussion. The knock could be a noise caused by poor timing and mistaken for a typical lower end knock. Right now it is worth getting it timed correctly and seeing if it runs. I would suggest taking the intake off completely and making sure the rockers are still in good shape and seated correctly with assembly grease before re-assembling. You can inspect the valve stems at this point to make sure they are all in-line with each other. This is also a good time to borrow/buy a bore-scope and take a peek at the top of the pistons thru the injector holes. Make sure there are no signs of valve-contact (dents, dings, scrapes etc). Follow the procedure for timing the CRD with a new belt and see what happens when you fire it up!

Start with this video and follow the next ones all the way up until part 4...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=5o_FJpBEKjk

BSG · **Posted:** Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:50 am

Thanks everybody for the replies. Have spent the last month pretty much dedicated to finding a new vehicle to replace the Jeep until its running again. I've had the luck of 3 family cars all breaking down in the same week. Can't do that out here.
This is the recent history of mechanics working on it. Sorry if it seems like a novella.
Mechanic #1. This shop, the first one I found while living up in that area, advertised as being the big diesel/4x4 shop in the area, had it for about a month. The turbo blew at 101K. Had the shop do Timing belt, EGR, Turbo, replaced fan with a Hayden unit. This is where something mysterious happened with the rockers, supposedly rockers were replaced, a glow plug was stripped (later discovered 3 of 4 plugs were replaced).
Mechanic #2. Brakes, front driveshaft, etc. This when the whistling and smoke started at 140K. Replaced intercooler hoses (again),hose from air box. Starts giving readings for low turbo boost.Shop owner says let's start throwing parts at it starting with injectors. If you don't want to do that, take it to someone who knows more about it. I don't want to do that and take it home.
Mechanic #3. Works on a lot of Cummings. Replaced turbo. Old Turbo shaft wiggling around pretty good. Bring it home. Just before home is a long uphill grade that gets steeper just before the summit. Now the banging starts. Loud enough that the wife following behind me heard it clearly. Mechanic says it's clearing crap out of cylinders, give it a good run. Banging goes away but comes back one more time before going away again. Get some knocking at certain rpms. Before I get it back to his shop I'm throwing #3 injector code. Jeep dies on road and it's towed to his shop. He says #3 injector shot. Dig deep and order four new injectors. Injectors put in now starts coughing out of intake. He says it's timed correctly, take it to someone who knows more.
Mechanic #4. Diesel shop. Think it's his first CRD but works on big stuff and TDIs. Only guy who would even look at it. This is the shop that found belt stretched. Installed new belt, coughing out of intake. Says I need new engine.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:17 pm

Seems to me that a botched timing belt job has led to some broken rockers.
As mentioned several times before, if you aren’t able to repair this vehicle yourself, then you need to find something else as your daily driver.
Your engine is fixable.
How much time and money are you willing to spend on it?

I hear Toyota’s are pretty reliable.

BSG · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:50 am

Got a replacement for the Jeep. Probably going to tow it home this week if the weather holds. I've dropped a lot of money into the Jeep, heck haven't even rotated the new tires yet. It's clean, no rust, it's something I can take on the at least the modest trails and stands up to the dirt and gravel roads around here. I really don't want to throw it away. The dirt and gravel roads have just been beating the slats out of my Subaru.
Anybody know if you can swap the 2.8 out of a Colorado? Any parts interchangeable?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:13 pm

BSG wrote:

Got a replacement for the Jeep. Probably going to tow it home this week if the weather holds. I've dropped a lot of money into the Jeep, heck haven't even rotated the new tires yet. It's clean, no rust, it's something I can take on the at least the modest trails and stands up to the dirt and gravel roads around here. I really don't want to throw it away. The dirt and gravel roads have just been beating the slats out of my Subaru.
Anybody know if you can swap the 2.8 out of a Colorado? Any parts interchangeable?

Colorado 2.8 is a different engine with a GM designed head and totally different electronics.
Really just not feasible....
Best to fix what you have.

BSG · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Yeah, I was just thinking after I saw the story on the IDParts blog. If I could've gotten a long block....
Been looking on Craigslist too.
Just hoping that I could've found something to make its resurrection a little easier. Once had a Chevy Beretta that a friend did an engine swap from one that was rear ended. Literally drove it ten years to the day. Only issue during that whole time was a couple of alternators and a loose ground wire.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:02 pm

Sounds to me like a timing kit and rockers will fix this issue. You probably have no recourse with the shop that screwed the timing in the first place as none of them will ever own up to their wrong doings. For roughly $800 you should be able to get this thing driving again if everything has been reported accurately here. You can do this yourself in the driveway with mostly normal tools that you probably already have. You'll just need the timing pins and sprocket holder. $800 is cheaper than a new vehicle. I don't know where you're located, but many members on here would be willing to travel a bit to help you complete the job as well. Add your location to your avatar so we know.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:00 pm

APC9199 wrote:

Sounds to me like a timing kit and rockers will fix this issue. You probably have no recourse with the shop that screwed the timing in the first place as none of them will ever own up to their wrong doings. For roughly $800 you should be able to get this thing driving again if everything has been reported accurately here. You can do this yourself in the driveway with mostly normal tools that you probably already have. You'll just need the timing pins and sprocket holder. $800 is cheaper than a new vehicle. I don't know where you're located, but many members on here would be willing to travel a bit to help you complete the job as well. Add your location to your avatar so we know.

Stated earlier he is located in south central Colorado.

BSG · **Posted:** Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:18 pm

Outside of Cotopaxi, CO. About 90 minutes (southwest) from Colorado Springs and (west from) Pueblo. Yeah, I'm figuring that's what I'll have to do. Chances are I'll be towing it home soon.

Whistle and black smoke under load

Who is online