It is currently Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:06 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:44 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself, long time follower and recent member.

I am trying to get a few ideas on what can be causing excessive black smoke under acceleration. My KJ is 2006 with about 134k miles on it. EGR is removed and it has a GDE Eco tune. I understand that what is excessive to one person might not be to someone else.

The turbo was checked for play and I did not notice movement, map sensor is clean, hoses are in good condition. The 2.5 that I had in Europe smoked considerably less.

Ideas and suggestions are greatly appreciated, I am also fully aware that it might be time for a new turbo.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:02 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:13 am
Posts: 423
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Which generation of fuel filter head do you have installed? Black plugs = Gen1, Blue plug = Gen2. The Gen1's are known to leak air into the fuel system and cause problems with combustion. When is the last time the fuel filter was changed? Have you had the injectors tested for return flow? There are quite a few possibilities here, and you will have to narrow it down one by one unfortunately. Check those things first and report back with answers. We'll go from there!

_________________
2006 Limited CRD: Frankenlift II, Fumoto Drain Plug, DIY Stage 1 Tune, In-Tank Lift Pump


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:45 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
I recently did a fuel filter change, say 200 miles ago. The plugs are black, making them a gen1. Upon closer inspection I noticed a leak on injector one, that could be a part of my issue. Prior to today I did not notice any leaks but jeep still smoked. I will begin with replacing the injector seals on all four injectors and see what happens. Thanks for the help APC.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:58 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:05 am
Posts: 109
Location: Kennewick, wa
Does it lack power or make a popping / knocking noise when running? That would be work rockers. Black smoke is from excessive fuel or not enough air. Fuel head or filter problems would be lack of power and no smoke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:15 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
The funny thing is it runs just fine, maybe a bit slow at quarter throttle but its a diesel. If you step on it, it goes.... No popping or knocking.

I ordered the O-rings and new crush washers from Id Parts. Once they come it I will pull the injectors and get the new seals in.

Do you guys think that changing the fuel filter head makes any sense?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:25 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:13 am
Posts: 423
Location: Prescott, Arizona
My66dodge wrote:
Does it lack power or make a popping / knocking noise when running? That would be work rockers. Black smoke is from excessive fuel or not enough air. Fuel head or filter problems would be lack of power and no smoke


Sometimes it is best to defer to the people who have been driving these things for a decade rather than assuming based on your past experiences. I don't doubt for one second that you are a well seasoned mechanic and have WAY more time under the hood than me on way more engines than I have ever worked on...but I, and many others here, are VERY experienced with this motor. The Gen1 fuel filter head has been proven to be the problem in DOZENS (if not more) of low power/black smoke/hesitation situations. It may not solve the problem in every situation involving those symptoms but it is free to check and relatively cheap to replace, versus the alternatives which can take a lot of time and money just to inspect. Also, the OP did not mention any other problems in their original post which would have suggested rockers, which is a much more complicated thing to check any way you look at it.

To the OP, definitely get that injector seal replaced. When you get it up and running again, do one more test on the filter head. Pump the primer on it until it is hard and open the bleeder to let any air out. Do this until there is nothing but solid fuel with no air. Start and run the vehicle for a few minutes (go to the grocery store or something). Stop the vehicle and check to see if the bleeder is soft again, and if so, check it for air. If you have air again, then you have an air ingress leak in the system that needs to be eliminated.

_________________
2006 Limited CRD: Frankenlift II, Fumoto Drain Plug, DIY Stage 1 Tune, In-Tank Lift Pump


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:48 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
Got an update, replaced all the injector seals and crush washers. Cylinder 4 was in pretty bad shape, looked like it was leaking for a while. Checked the primer per the instructions and it did not show symptoms associated with unsealed fuel system. Will try again this weekend any other ideas ? Still get a significant amount of smoke under acceleration....

Thanks !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:19 am 
Online
LOST Junkie

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:33 pm
Posts: 665
Location: Jackson,TN
It would have been prudent to have the injectors checked by a bosch shop while you had them out so as to not have to get another set of copper washers and or seals or at least check the fuel return before changing the seals then injector problems would have been the known cause or eliminated.
You should be able to check the OBDII data to get an idea of turbo boost and Air flow. You might also check for vacuum leaks .
Its also possible there could be a leak in intercooler.

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:24 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 4835
Location: Central GA
Excessive black smoke when accelerating is usually always a sign of low boost or overfueling. Air / fuel ratio issue.
Easiest one to troubleshoot first is MAP sensor bad. (Sending incorrect signal to ECM causing low boost or overfueling)
First thing I would do is replace the MAP sensor with the GM part number Bosch unit. GM PN: 55206797
ID Parts and many others sell this MAP sensor for a little over 20 bucks. https://www.idparts.com/map-sensor-libe ... -2859.html

Next:
Starting at turbo checking it and variable vane operation (full stroke), boost hoses & intercooler (CAC) for leaks, , etc...
Boost pressure gauge or a way of reading boost pressure using the OBD port would be a most helpful diagnostic tool.

Overfueling:
As others stated, injectors would have to be checked by an Injector Service with the proper equipment for testing them.

:SOMBRERO:

_________________
Proud Supporting Vendor of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:52 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for all for the input, so I changed the MAP sensor, replaced the intercooler hoses, put on a new intake elbow, installed good low mileage injectors. The shaft does operate normally when the vacuum line is disconnected.

At this point everything points to the turbo. Jeep idles fine, no smoke on startup and moderate driving. Once you attempt to accelerate black smoke appears.
Other than checking shaft play on the turbo is there anything else that can be done before I rip the turbo apart????
Thanks again!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:18 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 4835
Location: Central GA
Romo wrote:
Thanks for all for the input, so I changed the MAP sensor, replaced the intercooler hoses, put on a new intake elbow, installed good low mileage injectors. The shaft does operate normally when the vacuum line is disconnected.

At this point everything points to the turbo. Jeep idles fine, no smoke on startup and moderate driving. Once you attempt to accelerate black smoke appears.
Other than checking shaft play on the turbo is there anything else that can be done before I rip the turbo apart????
Thanks again!

Read the actual boost with either a gauge or using an ELM Bluetooth in the OBD port and Torque Pro APP.
Numbers can tell you a lot! :D

_________________
Proud Supporting Vendor of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:14 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
So it ends up smoking if there is any type of boost present. At 15 pounds and full throttle I create a block wide smoke screen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:07 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 7
Did a few more runs and I keep getting the P0234 code (overboost). The max turbo boost pressure reaches 22.5 psi.

I did some reading on this and it looks like a few folks had the same issues and narrowed it down to the improper vane operation.

Will taking the turbo off and cleaning the internals help? or should I just go with a new turbo...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Turbo question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:02 am 
Online
LOST Junkie

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:33 pm
Posts: 665
Location: Jackson,TN
It may help. One person found that even though theirs passes the actuator vacuum test that the control arm was broken and thus vanes were not opening as they should even though arm was moving but I would think that underboost rather than overboost should be the result unless the vanes stick open. I guess its always possible that the new map sensor was defective.
Question: Is it still running alright? Is there a significant decrease in fuel mileage?
seems like if the turbo is able to create that much boost that its ok and more of a control issue.
Hopefully others will help.

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TKB4 and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com