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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:31 pm
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Location: North America
Even Aliens agree:
"Flash is Smart!"

Re warmer heater-core, if I relocate to Northern climes a good suggestion. Meanwhile, I'd prefer to route so reduced-temp coolant flows-through turbo.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


Last edited by Gypsy62 on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:10 am 
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Location: Jackson,TN
Quote:
Bonus Question: do the forces of Volume and Pressure exist in the vacuum of Outer Space?


Kinda relative : Even space can't be a perfect vacuum but much closer than anything on earth. Once a little gas is vented out of spacelab etc it goes somewhere but it could eventually get to an object with gravity. Space isn't empty but just so large that the effect of any change man would be likely to make wouldn't be measurable but it does change at least in theory., o If you believe in the big bang theory space is still expanding so it could become less relatively occupied over time even with the addition of some matter. then the argument that matter is being consumed by the stars forming energy, then the argument that light could actually be particles and not just a wave and so on and so on. Its mind boggling isn't it? :5SHOTS:

The short answer still is yes but the determination of the total volume and measuring a pressure change isn't practical at this point.

As Jodie Foster said in the movie Contact "if theres no other life out there it would be an awful waste of space" but don't quote me on that :roll:

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:28 am 
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Here on terra we measure volume and pressure of liquids, solids and gasses... fire... Is Space more picky?

Given that jeep drivers roam a bit remoter than bipedular vehicles, I suspect I ain't the only one here who's commuted with UFOs. Probably thread-worthy...

Contact is a GREAT film!
[I am not affiliated with Hadden Industries]

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:21 pm 
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Pics with hoses installed. I opted to cut-apart the two metal stock heater-core supply/return tubes and only use the one that bolts to the top of the valve-cover for the HC supply before it loops out and through the turbo:
https://i.postimg.cc/fySSYQCn/20200205-170411.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/yNwDBbBL/20200205-170430.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6pFWG4S3/20200205-180245.jpg

And shots from down-under:.
Circled:
- Turbo coolant-out line, straight-down then looping behind motor mount and straight-up to water pump housing.
- Installed custom dual-tap oil drain tube & retainer tab.
- Drain tube connected to oil-outs of both turbo (black hose) and provent (red hose, check-valved).
- Adapter plates from [ceramic-coated] stock exh man to Garrett GT2560R.
- EGT sensor into exh man:

https://i.postimg.cc/vmdRsrkW/20200205-182710.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/wjM5jn8z/20200205-181734.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/R0cWSTF9/20200205-181342.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/7PSKvvDQ/20200205-181937.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/85zN2dfZ/20200205-180852.jpg

Attempting launch shortly... :shock: :frankie:

UPDATE: TURBO IS NOT(!!!) LEAKING!
Factory-recommended procedure for checking turbo blow-by:

https://i.postimg.cc/sf7cZgPK/20200206-103452.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/CLvfR32m/20200206-101728.jpg

The flipped airbox's output is taped directly onto the CAC input, leaving all in/outs @ turbo easily observable for oil blow-by (leakage). How the crew of Apollo 13 made it home without gorilla tape is a complete friggin' mystery... :ROTFL:

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Location: North America
Just took jeep on first non-local road-test post major-mods (and 11-months); 200-miles R/T. Having one odd coolant-related symptom: when cold, the little radiator MIL illuminates (located center-bottom of cluster, yellow). After it reaches op-temps & thermo opens the light goes out.

The re-routing mods included capping one hole on both the pump & thermo housings, reducing the volume of coolant circulating @ cold. Anyway, in spite of the MIL there's no coolant loss and the gauge behaves normally.

UNTIL... I ascended hills. However, the climbing gauge is a product of other known issues:
- I replaced the stock mech fan with an 18" high-output Derale electric fan [puller], as well as 2 9-inch manually-switched aux fans [pushers] front-mounted on the trans cooler and AC condensor. However, the stock (gasser's) electric fan circuit is Not activating @ temps; kinda' curious if others have had that problem. I knew this was a question before and carried a jumper which I installed @ the "Fan High" relay before climbing a 4-mile hill while towing an 1800# box trailer on the return-trip. That kept the gauge steady until the final mile when it climbed to 3/4. I was too preoccupied with the temp gauge to observe my EGT; should have.
- I'm still dealing with a #@%& power issue, which is effectively making this a turbo-less vehicle and greatly elevating stress to coolant (and other) systems.
Getting about 16mpg.

Anybody happen to know the approx. temp values of the 3/4 and "max" gauge markings?
Aloha

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:49 pm 
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WWDiesel has a pic showing them and probably Turbo-Diesel-Freak . It is in many past threads but dont have a reference ready. It is very high though and I would not operate it in this range. I feel sure the pic will be posted by one of them . If not I will try to find it.

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:27 pm 
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There are two different temp gauge calibrations depending on what tune you have loaded.
The only way to know for sure is to stop and point your IR temp gun at the thermostat.

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U.S. Army Retired


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:46 pm 
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Okay, I'll holster the temp-gun & zap the thermo housing next hill-climb. Observe & Report.

The last thing I want to do is stress my head gasket job.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:48 pm 
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Awesome, WW. Thanks.
Zoomed-in and took a screen-shot for quick reference.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:04 pm 
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Now I have the pic in quick reference storage too. Thanks!

_________________
05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:34 pm 
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Weird electric fan behavior:
- Connected fan to the gasser circuit. Although the circuit would NOT kick-on during hill-climb and excessive temps, when I was just turning the ignition on to test the fuel pump circuit, with the vehicle overnight-cold, the fan circuit kicked-on...? :dizzy: :furious: :banghead: :ALONE: :5SHOTS:

[Update] So, if one or both of the Hi/Lo fan relays is removed the respective fan(s) kick(s)-on, regardless of coolant temp. I suppose a safety design in case the relay(s) fail(s). Annoying that I can't rely on the gasser circuit to properly activate the main fan!

It is what it is. Real world, I've confirmed that for low-load local driving @ <80f ambient temps, the CRD doesn't even need a fan. However, I'm prepping to tow a 3500# dual-axle box trailer (w/rear-axle elec. brakes) between 600-3500 miles in mid-April. So I'm going to rewire for manual switching. Three Switches:
A. Main 18" Puller Fan, Normal Speed.
B. Main Fan HIGH, plus 9" pusher mounted in front of AC condensor.
C. 2nd 9" pusher mounted on front of trans cooler.

Hopefully, that'll be 'nuff twister to keep 'er cool.
With all 3 blowing max, it feels like far more air than the mech fan whistled. The road shall tell...

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:44 pm 
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A year later. Hard to believe.
This setup needs correction. A few road-trips revealed unacceptable temps. Using the cabin heater to cool to normal ("high-noon") temps was doable during winter ascents up passes, but now it's AC or death during SWest summers.

Another member warned that resulting turbo-heat may be causing the hill-climbing temps (thanks!). Great point, so I'm installing a 12" aux radiator downstream from the turbo. I already have 2 12" electric pusher-fans; one is mounted on the trans-cooler, so the other can cool the aux rad (tight fit, but doable). Eventually, I'll wire the main 18" puller & two pushers to be sensor-switched (with a manual back-up).

Hoping to route through the existing capped ports on the thermo & pump intake housing, but snorkel mods limiting available space @ pump housing. That plugged EGR port is back in play. Post pics when resolved.

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:05 pm 
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I scanned virtually all HDS thermo-related threads.
[Forever hopeful, maybe I'll finally qualify for a promotion here at the Academy of "Beer Engineering"...]

Given that the HDS' central purpose is to INCREASE temps I fail to see how one would help resolve my desert climbing/towing with A/C too-warm issues.
But clearly a worthy long-term investment for North climes.

Removing my dead-after-150-miles, locally-rebuilt turbo today. Not super eager to disclose how much work, time and money misplaced trust is costing me here...
This is the LAST time I want to labor on all of these freakin' systems! :furious: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I am absolutely convinced that the combination of the three installed electrical fans match or exceed the mech fan's max airflow; there's a virtual hurricane through the grills and bouncing off the serp-zone.
So, in a final-ditch effort to reign-in operating temps all opinions welcome:
A. Gut the newish (<20k miles) mopar thermo and cap the bypass barbs so that ALL flow (except turbo-cooling circuit & gassing lines) goes through rad ALL the time?
B. Replace radiator with new/custom added-row(s) aluminum?
C. Stack a 2nd 12" aftermarket fluid cooler so the turbo's in & out are both enjoying active cooling?
D. Adapt a pellet stove to feed ice cubes onto the engine?

Thx

Pics of recently-installed pre-turbo cooler/routing. All 1/2" hose Thermo-Cooler-Turbo (including brass elbows at cooler), then 1/2-5/8" adapter post-turbo and direct into W.Pump intake cowl:
Image

Brass elbow @ thermo-out to cooler:
Image

Circled: brass elbow Turbo-in from cooler, Heater core out adapter 5/8-3/4" then stock heat-shield split to sheath 3/4" line to "T", combining coolant tank's 3/4" gassing down-hose (arrow) before entering pump cowling:
Image

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:50 pm 
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The thermostat only controls the temperature floor. If you're trying to reduce in motion temps, the only option is a bigger or more efficient radiator. If you're trying to reduce traffic temps, the only option is bigger fans *maybe* coupled with a bigger radiator. The thermostat orifice has minimal-to-negligible effect on cooling - water is a good conductor of heat, and the overall temperature of turbulent water equalizes quickly. Pumping faster doesn't materially impact cooling capacity, which is why a 450hp Corvette shares a thermostat with a 200hp Buick. Fans do little to no work at speed. If the system can't keep itself cool about 15-20mph, there is not enough radiator.

I assume all your forward ducting is in place? There are a number of rubber air guides up front to help funnel air through the radiator. I think I read you've already moved other cooling away... isolated the trans cooler? Have you considered a formal oil cooler to help take heat from the engine? When I pulled my cooling core out I found the edges of both the intercooler and radiator clogged up with old, dried oil. Are your surface clean? Fins straight to allow good airflow through? Is it possible you are running lean?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:11 pm 
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Great info. Thx.
However, "Fans do little to no work at speed"???
That is hard for me to swallow. For one, combined with their cowls they concentrate the cooling airflow in a way that passive vehicle-motion can't match. Put another way, I would guess that the "concentrated" airflow occurring at 3-fan high is similar to a driving-speed of >70mph.
To precisely measure and record, I set my dog on top of the engine, cranked the fans, and measured the angle of her ear-sweep: yup, exactly 73mph.

But everything else makes theoretical sense.
- Yeah, the rad-cowl is tight and the perimeter is sealed between layers; very little cooling loss.
- Re Oil temps: during these coolant spikes I've been wishing I had an oil temp gauge. However, the OEM turbo was also oil-lubed/cooled (obviously) so I don't see how the Garrett 2560, with the addition of antifreeze cooling, would be causing out-of-spec oil temp spikes.
- Re oil-fouling of intercooler and/or Rad... When the CRD's original turbo started blowing (over 2 years ago) I did thoroughly flow-clean all oil-fouled hoses & Intercooler with Mighty Dawn. This time, I cleaned the hoses but haven't yet pulled the icooler for a flow.
- Thermo: I suppose the uppity unit might be "cool" because I could, presumably, just leave the thermo insert out to confirm constant-flow through rad and observe results. If still spiking the Rad would become the standout suspect.
- Running lean? Hmmm... if anything, rich. It wasn't until three weeks ago that my index finger discovered mild compressor rotational resistance, ergo the turbo has not been spinning at max efficiency for 'some time'. That revelation makes me think that my black-smoke Sierra ascents in February-March were an underboost (w/299 Code) rich-mix issue.
Stupidly ironic, given that Mr. Ozone here installed a cat when converting to 3" exhaust :ROTFL:

Anyway, I have been waiting until I successfully stabilize my temp/snorkel-filter-intake/2-battery setup to solicit custom flashes from Los Genios. I did one of the basic flashes to adios the egr code; that flash also seemed to noticeably enhance overall performance (looking forward to others). The chronic 299 came a bit later.

Noteworthy: As the "rebuilt" turbo was dying last week the ECU started throwing a "MAF Circuit High" code. I inspected the cable & connector and cleaned the MAF. During, I realized that I may have had my fabricator orient the MAF 90-off inside the intake. Now, the MAF's plate is parallel, not perp, to airflow through intake tube. Whoops; Beer Engineer demoted (again). Interestingly, I flipped the already-disoriented MAF 180 and adios code.

Today I pulled the turbo, and will ship it out to Dieselsite for proper rebuilding. The Wicked Wheel compressor and Garrett turbine are completely destroyed. Ug-ly!
I'm expecting that the 2560's housing is toast, too; hard to imagine those cartridge components not filing their surrounding surfaces beyond salvage.

The local kid who screwed-up the rebuild said his supplier in Mex City will cough-up a "new genuine Garrett" cartridge at no cost. I will be shipping that to dieselsite next week: it'll be VERY interesting whether Dsite confirms the cartridge's authenticity (same goes for dead one in turbo).

I am going to plead with Garrett and Dsite to cut me some slack on replacement costs. After all, the new turbo (w/wicked mod) started failing in less than 10k miles. Granted, I do drive like a Sicilian Nona (by N. American standards = maniac), while the turbo has also been subject to sporadic coolant spikes.

The kid says he only profited $120 on the rebuild, so that's what I'm expecting him to refund. No way should I be paying for his education. Can't handle the job? Don't take it. Basic.
Money burned? Yeah; neck-deep in ashes.
Aloha

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:24 pm
Posts: 652
IIRC the radiator is like 20" square. If you are going 60mph that's, what, 15000cfm? It's unlikely the radiator fan can compete with that. Fans in series (in this case one fan is "the world") add pressure but do not increase overall airflow... Max airflow is dictated by the biggest fan (15000cfm), and you don't need more pressure than vehicle in motion. ;)

If you need the fans while in motion, the radiator is undersized or compromised. Anything more than 20mph and the airflow is way more than any fan is going to provide. But the guides are essential to ensure air goes through the radiator and not around.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:26 pm 
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Was thinking last night, and figured I'd throw in:

Assuming a 20" square radiator, a fan is equivalent of driving about 4mph for each 1000cfm.... so a 3000cfm fan is like driving 12mph.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 pm 
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Something else...

While I was researching electric fans I (of course) looked at the FFD solution. The problem I ran into is that they they don't have any tests for their solution. Their most powerful fan is "rated" at 3000cfm @ 250w, but the problem with ratings is that they're done in free air. That's not useful when the fan is behind a radiator. Behind an intercooler. Behind an AC condenser. I don't know this but I feel that in these situations one needs to account for horsepower/wattage in these scenarios.... a more powerful motor will be less affected by static pressure created from these barriers.

Most aftermarket fans are sold on specs (CFM, amperage, etc.) that don't translate well to real-world use. I had emailed FFD to ask some questions, but they never responded to any of my emails. That put me off a bit, but sent me down the road of using OE fans. I could look at the OE application to sort of translate to the Jeep. That's what got me to brushless fans, and that eventually ended me with BMW. The BMW fan is speculated to be about 3500cfm, but has a monster 600w motor behind it. In the BMW application, there is also a radiator, intercooler, and condenser. My feeling was that if BMW felt a 600w motor was necessary to sufficiently keep this configuration and a 300hp motor cool, then 250w wasn't going to cut it. (Interestingly, BMW also has an 850w fan available for cars with the sport package). A 600w brushless fan is going to be *far* less affected by cores stacked in front of it than a 250w brushed motor.... more amps on a more efficient motor!

I ran into something similar on my XR4Ti. Originally I built the cooling system around Hayden fans, which were wholly unsuitable. I liked the low amp draw (10a ea IIRC) but they couldn't keep the radiator + intercooler temps down. After talking with a guy at Mishimoto, I ended up with fans that had slightly lower cfm BUT used nearly double the current. Night and day difference. I did try and contact Mishimoto for the Jeep, but they couldn't be arsed to help me this time. (Though they did at least respond!)

Anyway, the points are:

1. The fan can't help on the road
2. Free-air cfm ratings are stupid
3. The truth is out there


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 Post subject: Re: Questions re coolant routing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:41 am 
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Okay; power vs cfm flow. Interesting!
I guess now I can conscionably remove the pooch from the engine compartment.

If >20mph vehicle-speed airflow* trumps fan-generated airflow, then if temps are spiking at highway speeds are fan-specs even a consideration?

I'm schooled to the logic. However, mine idles cool and actually the slower I drive up long grades (say, 50 vs >65) the slower the temp begins to spike.

Today I thought about the H2O pump. Installed new @ major work 4 yrs/20k ago; hard to fathom that it may already be failing, but no stones unturned.

I'm at a crossroads. I need to order a replacement turbo ASAP, and controlling these temps is fundamental to whether I revert to a non water-cooled journal-bearing unit or buy another Garrett GT2560R. If I was certain that the Garrett was causing these coolant-temp spikes then I'd be extremely tempted to revert to an oil-only turbo and cease trying to beergineer how to successfully stabilize coolant temps just for the luxury of running an h2o-cooled, ball-bearing turb.

Related, my recollection is that before the turb upgrade I did the mech-fan elim for a used Ford TBird electro-fan. I'm pretty sure that fan kept the temps stable, but am going senile so maybe no. Anyway, the 16" derale puller + 2 9" pushers combined blow at least 50% more air than the Tbird fan (dog-ear calibrated). Does that necessarily mean that plumbing-in the h20-cooled garrett caused the coolant spikes? Not definitively, but very suspicious.

I have also substantially modified the non radiator-related coolant path. The addition of the pre-turbo cooler definitely helped, but not nearly enough to trust for hot-weather climbing/towing. During my many mods I've kept nearly all of the stock parts, but in order to restore the coolant path to bone-stock I'd have to re-design/route my snorkel setup = nope. If I do opt for a non h2o-cooled replacement turbo but temps don't stabilize, it's back to the bar, pooch and protractor.

If I was confident that the garrett was NOT responsible for the coolant-temp instability I would def replace with same turbo. About $200 more than journal options but worth it for hp-bump and h2o cooling.

Your knowledge, thoughts and time are greatly appreciated!

*what if you have notable tailwinds? Presumably, there goes your headwind passive-cooling, proportionately...

_________________
'15: bought '05 w/138k.
'16: HG/Rockers/ARPs/Thermo/H20pump/TbeltKit/ Seals/ Mounts/Kennedy fuel pump.
'17: bought manual Gas donor for its' ARB F/R Airlockers, OME 2.5" lift (gas-rated), JBA UCAs, ARB bumper.
'19: Trans w/Suncoast/Transgo/HDdiscs, new OME CRD-rated lift, electric tri-fan setup, BlackMagics/Centric Premiums, Airbags.


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