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 Post subject: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:53 am 
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Maybe more of a rant but id like to know how long glow plugs last other owners here? My CRD seems to eat them up.

We bought the car at 70k and previous owner had just replaced them. We got p1261-1267 codes at around 100k, had dealer change them with 7V ceramics again. At around 140k again codes popped up and I put in 5V etechnos myself. Those only lasted 20k so next I put in 5V Bosch plugs at 160k. Now at 187k the p1261 and 1267 just came on again. So that's 5 sets going on 6 over the life of the car.

Google tells me glow plugs should last up to 100k but I don't know what's realistic. All I know if I am so sick of changing these things its such a pain to remove all the oily parts around the egr.
Not sure it matters but I am in sunny southern ca and have no issues with startup, they just seem to love to throw the codes right before my smog is due every other year.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:49 pm 
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GP life is very dependant on how you use your jeep. If it gets a lot of short runs or you are in the habit of turning it on and leaving it for 20 seconds before you crank it over, they wont last long, much less than 100k. In CA you should hardly need GP's. Especially through summer. Just turn the key straight to crank. Unless its a frosty morning it should start on the first couple of compression strokes.
I have just replaced my #4 GP, not an easy job but doable.
My question to you is ; From your previous experience, can you change #3 GP without removing the camifold? As soon as i replaced #4 GP, the #3 GP code came up. Testing the resistance of the GP's at the plug near the oil dipstick shows #3 has failed.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 pm 
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Certainly not a benchmark, I bought my Jeep CRD in 2013 used with 138k on the odometer.
It had the original factory ceramic glow plugs in it. I verified this by getting all the service records from the dealer who sold it new (one owner) and performed any and all service work on it. The first owner only used the selling dealer for all service work including oil changes.
I actually ended up working for this dealer as a Service Advisor back in 2015-2016 so I was able to pull up and research all the service records history thoroughly for this vehicle.

All that being said, in 2016 I removed the original ceramic GP's and replaced them with the 7v Etecno metal tipped GP's and they are still in service to this day and so far have never received an DTCs for GP's or had a starting issue.
Never had any problems with 7v Etecno plugs as some have reported, but I do live in a location where it rarely gets below 32 deg.F. for over a day or two.

IDParts.com no longer stocks or sales the 7v metal Etecno GP's. All they list now on their web site is the 5V Bosch Steel Glow Plugs which has become the standard go to GP replacement for all GP's including the OEM ceramic GP's.

https://www.idparts.com/glow-plug-bosch ... -2858.html

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:17 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Certainly not a benchmark, I bought my Jeep CRD in 2013 used with 138k on the odometer.
It had the original factory ceramic glow plugs in it. I verified this by getting all the service records from the dealer who sold it new (one owner) and performed any and all service work on it. The first owner only used the selling dealer for all service work including oil changes.
I actually ended up working for this dealer as a Service Advisor back in 2015-2016 so I was able to pull up and research all the service records history thoroughly for this vehicle.

All that being said, in 2016 I removed the original ceramic GP's and replaced them with the 7v Etecno metal tipped GP's and they are still in service to this day and so far have never received an DTCs for GP's or had a starting issue.
Never had any problems with 7v Etecno plugs as some have reported, but I do live in a location where it rarely gets below 32 deg.F. for over a day or two.

IDParts.com no longer stocks or sales the 7v metal Etecno GP's. All they list now on their web site is the 5V Bosch Steel Glow Plugs which has become the standard go to GP replacement for all GP's including the OEM ceramic GP's.

https://www.idparts.com/glow-plug-bosch ... -2858.html

Image

WW, did you change the GP's without removing the camifold?

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:44 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
GP life is very dependant on how you use your jeep. If it gets a lot of short runs or you are in the habit of turning it on and leaving it for 20 seconds before you crank it over, they wont last long, much less than 100k. In CA you should hardly need GP's. Especially through summer. Just turn the key straight to crank. Unless its a frosty morning it should start on the first couple of compression strokes.
I have just replaced my #4 GP, not an easy job but doable.
My question to you is ; From your previous experience, can you change #3 GP without removing the camifold? As soon as i replaced #4 GP, the #3 GP code came up. Testing the resistance of the GP's at the plug near the oil dipstick shows #3 has failed.


Yes its mostly an around town/short trip vehicle. I do wait 20 seconds before cranking mainly for the fuel pump not so much the glow plugs, it doesnt get cold enough to ever have drivability issues even when the glow plugs throw codes, but I have to clear them to get smogged in a couple months. GP#1 came on and I was just going to replace it but 2 weeks later GP#3 popped up so now Ill just replace them all.

Not sure what you mean by camifold? The intake elbow/egr comes out, its a big pain but once all the parts are out of the way, the reach for gp#4 was actually harder for me than gp#3(im short had to stand on a chair/sit on the engine and curse)
I follow this writeup - viewtopic.php?f=98&t=70159
Just reviewing the pictures is giving me some PTSD, this will be my third time replacing them.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:35 am 
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layback40 wrote:
WW, did you change the GP's without removing the camifold?

I have the full EGR delete kit, so I only had to remove the intake elbow.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:09 am 
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To answer your original question the best, I'd need to know which glow plug is actually going bad. I mean measuring each one's resistance. It's highly unlikely that all four plugs are going bad at the same time. It's probably just one, maybe two. Reason I ask is I want to know if it's always the same cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:47 pm 
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dskater411 wrote:

Yes its mostly an around town/short trip vehicle. I do wait 20 seconds before cranking mainly for the fuel pump not so much the glow plugs, it doesnt get cold enough to ever have drivability issues even when the glow plugs throw codes, but I have to clear them to get smogged in a couple months. GP#1 came on and I was just going to replace it but 2 weeks later GP#3 popped up so now Ill just replace them all.

Not sure what you mean by camifold? The intake elbow/egr comes out, its a big pain but once all the parts are out of the way, the reach for gp#4 was actually harder for me than gp#3(im short had to stand on a chair/sit on the engine and curse)
I follow this writeup - viewtopic.php?f=98&t=70159
Just reviewing the pictures is giving me some PTSD, this will be my third time replacing them.



Thank you for the link!
Thanks to WW for your reply.
The camifold is the cam cover and inlet manifold. From the link its clear it does not need to be removed.
That elbow front inner bolt looks like a bear to undo.
I stand on a milk crate when working over the side and down deep. 5' 8" is still not tall enough.
Its a foggy cold morning here. Cant see more than 50'. When it warms up I will start on replacing the other 3 GP's. I have done #4.
I am using YOU.S GP's (7 volt www.you-s.de) because I already had them.
Maybe a good time to remove the flapper from the elbow extension and block off the EGR if it is still opperating (I have no history about this jeep). It has 5v metal Bosch GP's.
Will let you know how I go.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:44 pm 
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dskater411, when you swapped over to the 5v plugs, did you change the driving voltage from 7v to 5v, or are you still running them at 7v?

Just asking, I just pulled out my 7v ceramics last week and replaced them with the 5v metal Bosch ones. No failures, no broken tips, just preventative work. I'm still running mine at 7v.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:23 pm 
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layback40 wrote:

That elbow front inner bolt looks like a bear to undo.



1 or 2 of the bolts on the elbow are a blind reach, a bit tricky to get to but the harder part is getting it back on. I seem to recall having to tape the bolt to my socket and trying several times to get it threaded without dropping

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:28 pm 
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user113 wrote:
dskater411, when you swapped over to the 5v plugs, did you change the driving voltage from 7v to 5v, or are you still running them at 7v?

Just asking, I just pulled out my 7v ceramics last week and replaced them with the 5v metal Bosch ones. No failures, no broken tips, just preventative work. I'm still running mine at 7v.


I didnt change the voltage, its still set to 7V

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:31 pm 
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CATCRD wrote:
To answer your original question the best, I'd need to know which glow plug is actually going bad. I mean measuring each one's resistance. It's highly unlikely that all four plugs are going bad at the same time. It's probably just one, maybe two. Reason I ask is I want to know if it's always the same cylinder.


Right now I have codes for #1 and #3

Last time is was #2, 3, and 4
Time before is was #1, 3, and 4

I dont recall before that

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:24 am 
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dskater411 wrote:
layback40 wrote:

That elbow front inner bolt looks like a bear to undo.



1 or 2 of the bolts on the elbow are a blind reach, a bit tricky to get to but the harder part is getting it back on. I seem to recall having to tape the bolt to my socket and trying several times to get it threaded without dropping



Well I got motivated when it warmed up a bit!
Elbow out.
#2 no good, #3 was ok, the other day I replaced #4.
So I will replace 1,2 & 3 now so they are all changed.
So I will have replaced 5v ones with 7v ones. I hope they work.
The inside of the elbow was the typical black mess so I am going to place a blank in the fitting between the elbow and the exhaust tube and another between the exhaust and the cooler. I am also removing the butterfly plate from the elbow.
Hopefully it wont set any codes off.
Full of aches & pain after 4hrs so will finish tomorrow.
Will let you know if the blanks work. They are just pieces cut out of tin can lids. I have done this to stop EGR's from doing their thing in the past. All looks standard.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:39 am 
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Got motivated and got it all done.
The 2 inner elbow bolts are best accessed from underneath the jeep. About 2' of 1/4" drive socket extension. Wrap the head of the bolt in tissue paper so it stays in the socket until its tight. Works a treat.
I placed a tin plate under the pipe from the exhaust into the heat exchanger to seal it off. Shaped another piece over the fitting on the elbow and clamped it with the clamp & sealed with RTV. just left the pipe free of the fitting. Butterfly disk removed.
Started easy and runs ok. No codes. will take it for a run later.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:08 am 
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layback40 wrote:
GP life is very dependant on how you use your jeep. If it gets a lot of short runs or you are in the habit of turning it on and leaving it for 20 seconds before you crank it over, they wont last long, much less than 100k. In CA you should hardly need GP's. Especially through summer. Just turn the key straight to crank. Unless its a frosty morning it should start on the first couple of compression strokes.
I have just replaced my #4 GP, not an easy job but doable.
My question to you is ; From your previous experience, can you change #3 GP without removing the camifold? As soon as i replaced #4 GP, the #3 GP code came up. Testing the resistance of the GP's at the plug near the oil dipstick shows #3 has failed.


Are you saying that the glow plugs operate at every startup no matter the temp if you hold the key on before cranking? I would have thought they would have a sensor and only engage below a certain temp?

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:09 am 
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krb wrote:

Are you saying that the glow plugs operate at every startup no matter the temp if you hold the key on before cranking? I would have thought they would have a sensor and only engage below a certain temp?


I am not aware of exactly how the GP cycle works with this engine. If it only cycles on for a few seconds, it means that the GP's have 2 heat/cool cycles each time the engine runs if one waits for 20 seconds before cranking.
I very cold conditions with many diesels it is often suggested to glow twice before cranking to make sure the GP's get hot.
2 things kill GP's
1/ having them glow unnecessarily for too long.
2/ Too many heat cycles.
Maybe some one has used a meter to determin the way these engine's GP's heat.

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:51 pm 
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It is my understanding that the ECM looks at ambient temperature & coolant temperature of the engine to determine the cycle time for glow plug heating.
The ECM totally controls the Glow Plug module/relay along with cycle times and voltage going to the GP's.

This GP heating time chart is in the FSM, but several have questioned its accuracy?

Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:58 pm 
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from my experience I purchase 3 different batches of glowplugs 7v e-technos 1st batch lasted few weeks 2nd batch lasted a month 3rd batch seems to be working okay since 2014. all purchased from id parts, and I was told I will be happy with the 3rd set so yes but I have to have a strong battery to get it going in the winter time. if it is not plugged in. I have no experience with 5v Bosch. however people say they are the best.


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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:14 pm 
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rankom wrote:
from my experience I purchase 3 different batches of glowplugs 7v e-technos 1st batch lasted few weeks 2nd batch lasted a month 3rd batch seems to be working okay since 2014. all purchased from id parts, and I was told I will be happy with the 3rd set so yes but I have to have a strong battery to get it going in the winter time. if it is not plugged in. I have no experience with 5v Bosch. however people say they are the best.

I too have had the 7V [Etecno] Glow Plug Set for the Liberty CRD installed since 11/2016 and so far no cold starting issues or DTC's. :D
I replaced the ceramics due to all the dire warnings on this forum of them breaking off and causing severe internal engine damage.

At the time, the 7v Etecno's were the only Glow Plugs that everyone was recommending to replace the possibly failure prone ceramics.
I ordered them from IDParts.com as well.
At that time, no one had talked about or shared knowledge of trying or using the 5v Bosch GP's or testing them for compatibility in place of the 7v OEM ceramics.
Had we been aware of this information five or six years ago, I am sure many of us on this forum would have opted for the Bosch 5v GPs in place of the 7v Etecnos. :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: How long SHOULD glow plugs last?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:14 pm 
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[quote="WWDiesel"]

Image
/quote]


Has anyone ever put a volt meter on a GP lead and seen what this tells us?
Does the 1 second glow & then after glow result in the GP being turned on for 1 second and then turned back on when you start cranking or the engine fires up?
Does having the system set for 5v result in 5v being seen at the GP lead? When 5v GP's are used in an engine programed for 7, do the 5v GP's get 7v? This may shorten their life.
If 7v GP's are put in a 5v setup, What happens. I know they work as that is what I have now. Do they heat up enough for very cold start?

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