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 Post subject: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Location: Australia
For a few months I have had issues.
Started with a couple of dead GP's.
At the same time as I replaced them, removed throttle plate and blocked EGR.
Following this had issue with bugs in the fuel. Treated & changed filter.
Starting became difficult, needed to crank for a long time.
It cranks well. Good battery & have tried
Eventually would not start without starter fluid. Both hot & cold start.
Fitted inline electric pump.
There are no air leaks into fuel around filter. Have some clear fuel line & no bubbles.
Been getting code for major fuel leak. No fuel leak. Occurs often when accelerating.
Engine dies & over ~ 45mph can turn key off & back on & it restarts as engine is still spinning.
If going slow & put into neutral, it will not start.
Have to stop, pop hood & give a small spray under air cleaner lid.
Starts & can continue if driving with very light throttle. It may die again as I approach 60mph.
There are no signs of injector problems. Idles smooth, no smoking.
It is as if there is a bad restriction to fuel supply through the CP3.
Have replaced the sensor on the side of the HP rail. Made no change.
Is there a fine mesh strainer in the inlet to the CP3?
Thinking of installing a second higher pressure electric pump between the filter & CP3.
Anyone have experience with the CP3 on these engines?
Maybe had same problems.
Hope some one can make suggestions that I have not tried.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:33 pm 
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Location: markham, ontario
try maybe replacing M-prop valve located at cp3 pump they do get some bad fuel and get sticky


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:01 pm 
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best approach would be go to Bosch and let them guide you through the procedure.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:39 pm 
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I have another pump I can install if I remove it off the other jeep.
Having rebuilt Bosch IDI pumps, I may have a closer look.
Cant find the electrical connections on the pump, feeling around the back of the pump.
May run some 2 stroke oil in the fuel & see if it improves in time.
If anyone has a good diagram/pic of the back of the pump showing things like the M-prop, it would be appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:55 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
I have another pump I can install if I remove it off the other jeep.
Having rebuilt Bosch IDI pumps, I may have a closer look.
Cant find the electrical connections on the pump, feeling around the back of the pump.
May run some 2 stroke oil in the fuel & see if it improves in time.
If anyone has a good diagram/pic of the back of the pump showing things like the M-prop, it would be appreciated.

Maybe these will help?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:33 am 
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Thanks guys.
Running injector cleaner through it for 1/2 tank has improved it a bit.
Will see how I go.
Looks like the wires will be close to the block.
I need to make sure the electrical connection is good.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:04 pm 
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After running starting fluid, you may need glow plugs . that stuff is an engine killer

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:01 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
layback40 wrote:
I have another pump I can install if I remove it off the other jeep.
Having rebuilt Bosch IDI pumps, I may have a closer look.
Cant find the electrical connections on the pump, feeling around the back of the pump.
May run some 2 stroke oil in the fuel & see if it improves in time.
If anyone has a good diagram/pic of the back of the pump showing things like the M-prop, it would be appreciated.

Maybe these will help?

Image

Image

The fuel quality solenoid is not on the pump on the KJ. Its on the rail.
The sensor on the end of the rail is a *********** as you need to unbolt the holding bolts & lift the rail to undo it. There is a boss on the camifold in the way. Dont know why its there, except maybe for lifting the engine out.
I have cleaned/changed all the sensors except the one at the end of the rail & the sensor on the manifold under the rail with no improvement.
I am going to replace the Faucet pump I put on the filter inlet with a Walbro GSS342 255LPH High Pressure In Tank Fuel Pump. From reading about the pressure generated by the LP gear pump in the CP3, this in tank pump should provide enough pressure to result in the pressure controller on the gear pump being open anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:04 pm 
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The name for the electrical part on the rear of the CP3 High Pressure Injector Pump always seems to be identified by several different names depending on where you look, but its location and sole purpose remains the same regardless of what name is applied to it. :banghead:

Maybe this diagram can help with any confusion? Part Numbers are the ultimate identification that should always be used when searching for a replacement part! :wink:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:30 pm 
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For cleaning out the fuel system I would give some biodiesel a try. It is an excellent solvent as well as being a good high pressure lube. May or may not help but likely can't do any harm.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:51 am 
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Use a scan tool to get data so we can properly determine the issue. You will need rail pressure before cranking after sitting then look at it when cranking. If you need to clean the fuel system we have had amazing results at my shop with Liquimoly diesel purge, I add it to the tank every oil service to keep things clean


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:23 am 
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The fact that this valve is called so many different names is frustrating!

It's function is internal to the CP3, where it dumps high pressure fuel (ready to head to the rail) back into the low pressure inlet (still all internal to the CP3) if there's already an over abundance of high pressure fuel exiting the CP3.

It acts as a fuel pressure regulator (internal to the CP3) AND fuel quantity supply valve. When you throw a code for "major fuel leak" it's this valve that is the culprit.

The fuel pressure sensor is on the side of the fuel rail, and the fuel rail pressure regulator is on the back of the rail. These are what you see with a scan tool.

The only fuel "quality" related thing to this valve is if you have low quality fuel, it will gum up. LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:10 pm 
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uncaged wrote:
The fact that this valve is called so many different names is frustrating!
It's function is internal to the CP3, where it dumps high pressure fuel (ready to head to the rail) back into the low pressure inlet (still all internal to the CP3) if there's already an over abundance of high pressure fuel exiting the CP3.
It acts as a fuel pressure regulator (internal to the CP3) AND fuel quantity supply valve. When you throw a code for "major fuel leak" it's this valve that is the culprit.
The fuel pressure sensor is on the side of the fuel rail, and the fuel rail pressure regulator is on the back of the rail. These are what you see with a scan tool.
The only fuel "quality" related thing to this valve is if you have low quality fuel, it will gum up. LOL.

Very good short description, I saved it for future use; below is the whole writeup I have on file.
It is quite long, but goes into great detail of how all the fuel is controlled and delivered on this engine. :dizzy:

File wrote:
Jeep CRD Fuel Pressure Control Items

1. Fuel Control Actuator or Fuel Pressure Regulator: (Also called by some as: *Fuel Quality Solenoid) Located on back of CP3 fuel injection pump. Controls the amount of fuel being pumped to the fuel rail, excess is returned back to fuel tank and the flow also helps cool the CP3 internally. 05159962AA 0928400822 (item #4 in diagram)
2. Fuel Pressure Solenoid: Located at the end of the fuel rail. Controls fuel rail pressure by the ECM. 05159964AA (item #13 in diagram)
3. Cascade Overflow Valve: Located on the side of the CP3 injection pump. The cascade overflow valve's (COFV) sole purpose is to prioritize the fuel flow between the pump itself (i.e. feed the FCA), then flow excess fuel to the lubrication flows to cool and lubricate the pump and finally divert any excess flow above that to the return line back to the fuel tank. (item #17 in diagram)
4. Fuel Pressure Sensor: Located on side of fuel rail. Tells ECM the fuel rail pressure and ECM in turn controls the rail pressure using items 1 & 2. 68020556AA; 05159963AA (item #15 in diagram)

*Note: Sometimes you will see these items called by other names, but these are the correct nomenclatures used by Mopar.

Image

Understanding the CP3.
The CP3 is a 3-piston metered inlet pump. By metered inlet that means that the Fuel Control Actuator valve (also called Fuel Pressure Regulator or Flow Control Valve) controlled by the ECM meters fuel going into the pumping chambers to control how much fuel the CP3 pumps and thus the engine rail pressure. This is in sharp contrast to other pressure control systems that divert large amounts of PRESSURIZED flow OUT of the pump back to the tank. The FCA meters how much fuel actually gets pressurized in the first place. Very neat and efficient.

In order to meter the fuel into the chambers, the CP3 has an internal metering/lift pump built right into it. This pump takes the fuel at supply pressure and boosts it to pressures between 80 and 180 PSI depending on what is required. This fuel is fed to the FCA via the cascade overflow valve located on the side of the pump. The cascade overflow valve's (COFV) sole purpose is to prioritize the fuel flow between the pump itself (i.e. feed the FCA), then flow excess fuel to the lubrication flows to cool and lubricate the pump and finally divert any excess flow above that to the return line back to the fuel tank.

The COFV prioritizes the flow in that order. If the flow rate is low, only the FCA will get fed. No cooling or return flow will be provided. If the flow rate increases, the pump will get cooled. Any more flow than that and some fuel will get sent out the return line. Note that this prioritization happens AFTER the internal supply pump and there is NO passage from the CP3 inlet to the CP3 return line. The inlet feeds the internal supply pump. Unlike other pumps where the fuel supply pump inlet may feed the internal cooling passages and make its way back to the return line.

Fuel Control Actuator (FCA)
also called Fuel Quality Solenoid or Fuel Pressure Regulator

The FCA is located on the back of the front cover of the high-pressure pump. The solenoid is pulse-width modulated valve controlled by the ECM and meters the amount of fuel that flows into the high-pressure elements inside the high-pressure pump.
This flow limiting valve is controlled by the ECM. It uses a variable pulse width 12v signal to charge an electromagnet. There is a small valve that is spring loaded to the open position inside this flow limiting valve. The electromagnet pulls the valve into the closed position to restrict fuel flow. The ECM constantly regulates this valve to achieve its desired fuel rail pressure.

The solenoid is inactive up to 30 seconds after the ignition switch is initially keyed to ON position to allow maximum fuel pressure to the fuel rail during cranking and start up. ECM assumes FCA valve control when CPS signal and rail pressure are within acceptable limits.

The FCA electromechanical device on the CP3 is also used by the ECM to limit fuel volume that the CP3 delivers. Notice that I said volume and not pressure

The ECM determines the fuel pressure set point based on engine sensor and rail-pressure inputs. If the actual fuel-rail pressure is too low, the ECM commands the solenoid to allow more fuel to flow to the high-pressure pump. This minimizes the difference between the actual fuel-rail pressure reading and the set point. The ECM will also operate the solenoid to delay fuel, reducing flow-rate, if the fuel-rail pressure becomes too high.
The FCA valve is commanded open by the ECM to allow the high-pressure pump to build maximum pressure (23,206 psi).
Thus, rail fuel-pressure can be increased or decreased independent of engine speed

BTW: Some shop manuals say the COFV isn't "field serviceable" they have been removed before, disassembled and re installed, or replaced with no problems.

So... the internal supply pump is a constant displacement gear pump. This pump is actually capable of developing enough suction to draw fuel through a filter right from the tank. It actually does this on some installations.
Being a constant displacement pump means that it you can't hook just any supply pump up to it. Whereas some injection pumps can tolerate a large difference in flow rates to/through it with relatively little pressure change, the CP3 cannot. If you try to push too much fuel through the CP3 (supply pressure), the discharge pressure will skyrocket to unsafe levels and the rail pressure will increase accordingly way beyond design pressure. There are no internal pressure relief valves in the CP3, only a direct feed to the internal supply pump. Conversely, if there isn't enough flow to it, the pressure will drop and the internal supply pump will provide vacuum in an attempt to supply itself enough volume of fuel.

Supplying the CP3
Users should never pump fuel to a CP3 at a high pressure. Because it has a built-in supply pump, the CP3 only needs to be supplied at a low pressure OR VACUUM and it will handle supplying the pumping chambers from there. Whereas previous pumps had to be somewhat pressurized, the CP3 handles its own pressurization.

Conversely, users do have to worry about getting enough fuel to the CP3. Remember the COFV? It prioritizes the flow and when there isn't enough fuel to the CP3, it shuts off internal lubrication and cooling flow. This is very bad news for the longevity of the CP3. Diesel fuel viscosity and lubricity falls dramatically with an increase in temperature. Hot fuel within the CP3 is bad.

Basically, one needs to get enough fuel from the tank to the CP3 inlet to keep the CP3 well fed, yet but never over pressure it when doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:25 am 
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The frustration continues.
have now replaced the CP3.
All sensors/solenoid etc on the fuel system have been replaced.
It has started to blow black smoke like a coal train under any acceleration.
Harder to start, sometimes need 2 tries with starter fluid.
When sitting idling in the drive, if you rev it up a few times, it creates a black soot patch.
The only thing left is the injectors. When the weather improves a bit here I may swap out the injectors.
Any other suggestions/comments are appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:25 pm 
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yes its a good idea to test injectors when #1 failed in my case I had the same code and it blew a lot of black smoke and rattling sound like a machine gun. so im surprised in your case there is no noise.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:00 pm 
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rankom wrote:
yes its a good idea to test injectors when #1 failed in my case I had the same code and it blew a lot of black smoke and rattling sound like a machine gun. so im surprised in your case there is no noise.

Thanks for the comment.
I do get a rattle when its cold. Goes away when it warms up. Thought it maybe a sticky lifter.
Did you end up replacing the injectors or just new tips?

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:54 pm 
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I replaced injector. part number is 0 445 110 217 Bosch reman


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:32 pm 
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Looks like I finally have progress.
Replaced the #1 injector body. Not tip though.
Now starts without starter fluid & can run at 50mph without cutting out.
Will see what happens as I replace the other injector bodies.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:48 am 
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Have had a few months break by driving my XJ diesel.
Now that things are drying up a bit here, I got back to the KJ.
The injector changing didnt cure the problem.
Given I am continually reading about CPS failures & its not that hard to get at from underneath, I took the one out of my 2007.
Then today got under the 2006 & first thing I saw was no heat shield!
Comparing the 2 (same Bosch part number), The one on the 2006 appears to have an issue.
The pin on the right (when the wide bumps are at the top) is showing open circuit to the other pins.
On the 2007 sensor its about 930 ohms to each of the other 2 pins.
About 2 ohms between the middle pin & the one to the right.
So now I will put the good one in & see if it works.
Conclusion; Replace the CPS at the first sign of problems.
Will see in the next few days if it works.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 CRD only starts with starter fluid.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:12 pm 
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Hope that cures your problem mate! :BANANA: :POPCORN:
That is why so many on LOSTJeeps always suggest changing the crank sensor first. It is not expensive, and they are notorious for failing with age.
And the only way to test them correctly is with a scope!
And they rarely ever set a Pcode when they cause the engine to stop running.
Mine put me on the side of the road twice and never tripped a DTC.

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