Hard Start, Lots of White Smoke (but only for a few minutes)

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:36 pm

Only 70* to 55*, huh? Ok, this may be a little tougher than usual, depending on whether you've checked the air filter for damp\wet, or furry critters checked in to the KJ air-box motel for the winter? It happens, eh...........

Still, if the injector(s) are leaking at only 5500-6000psi at idle, imagine the torrent at 18000-20000psi at hiway speeds, with resultant black cloud - likely, you'd resemble a Navy fog-layer going down (or up) the road

But, I also cannot deny the possiblity of mechanical deterioration of injectors and rocker arms at 150k mi - takes a scantool, but rocker-arm deterioration can be checked at idle, and DESIRED fuel at idle can also be checked

Either\both can result in less air than fuel condition, same as rich fuel mixture = white vapors

On a brighter note, could also be those ETECNO gp's on their first winter

maxf15 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:30 pm **Posts:** 52

gmctd - Actually, I think the injectors only 'leak' when the engine shuts off... at least that's what the tech said. The injector should seal off, keeping the fuel in the rail, but it allows depressurized fuel from the rail to drain into the cylinder without being able to shut all the way off, and then the fuel burns off the next time the engine is started. Which makes sense, the longer I leave it, the more white vapor I get after start (at least to a point.) The tech also said some injectors get better as they warm up, other injectors do the opposite and work when cold, but not when hot. It all depends on how they start to wear/fail.

Hey, it's one theory. I'm having trouble knowing what else to check.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:37 am

His explanation is correct - however, B4 you spend money, specifically and explicitly: have you removed the air-box cover and pulled the air-filter element out for both-side inspection\comparison, also looking in the bottom of the box for stuff that would block air-flow, resulting in thick white fuel vapors?

All my Diesel ag equipment has a screen over the air filter box inlet, and I have had to do similar for my Diesel street vehicles - I always remove that expanded metal mesh from the dirty air filter elements for use elsewhere - good thing, because out here in the country various and sundry furry creatures are always on the prowl for warm, dry lodgings in all seasons - I've had to install that screen on every air-filter box inlet-duct on the place - that large open area below the air-filter element is a warm and cozy refuge from cats'n'dogs and other predators - all those pine-needles, leaves, weeds, and other nesting stuff do nothing to promote efficient air flow under any circumstance

So, if you have not, check it out - could save you some money

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:50 am

maxf15 - sometimes in these long discussions we lose sight of the underlying issues. In looking back thru this string, correct me if I'm wrong I see:
1. coolant leak confirmed around viscous heater gasket
2. coolant drip onto hot surface but not located
3. #3 and 4 injectors wet around base but no comment on what the wet is
4. white smoke/vapor that smells of unburned? diesel and increases after initial startup but goes away after engine reaches operating temp (ambient temps on site in middle? GA in the 40-70F range)

So to address each item separately
1. this is a pricey part which doesn't do much in your location and only helps a bit in colder areas. If it was me I'd - pull the viscous heater relay (R36 in the black plastic power distribution center forward of the battery) to disable the viscous heater clutch; grab an appropriate length/size of heater hose; reroute flow from tstat directly to the heater core inlet pipe thus bypassing the viscous heater. No more coolant = no more leak.
2. could be coming from a variety of places which includes a leaky heater core dripping out of the HVAC drain on the firewall below the coolant tank. If you cannot find it with a flashlight then try so coolant UV dye and a UV light (former local parts store, latter same or Amazon).
3. probably diesel fuel leaking past copper crush washer. May or may not relate to #4. For ca. $20 (http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... ts_id=3284) get 2 sets of replacement "O" rings and crush washers; install and see if leak and white smoke/vapor goes away.
4. your initial smoke/vapor looks just like my son's 06 in similar temps but his stops before getting a couple of hundred yds down the road and my 05 doesn't do that at all and neither do the billowing white thing. I'm guessing way rich on fuel during coldish start could be #3 as mentioned, could be leaky injector(s) pooling fuel but I'd think that would burn off quickly, could be injector(s) over fueling due to injector issue or bad ECU command for some reason. Not sure how to test for the latter but there is a leaky injector test that you can run - see 06 FSM pg 14-35 or 05 FSM with picture key pg 14-47 or how to; some bits of vinyl hose and 4 glass or plastic vials with quantity marks you can make will substitute for the referenced Miller tool.

Yes check air box for critter stuff and/or dirty air filter.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:15 pm

papaindigo wrote:

maxf15 - sometimes in these long discussions we lose sight of the underlying issues. In looking back thru this string, correct me if I'm wrong I see:
1. coolant leak confirmed around viscous heater gasket
2. coolant drip onto hot surface but not located
3. #3 and 4 injectors wet around base but no comment on what the wet is
4. white smoke/vapor that smells of unburned? diesel and increases after initial startup but goes away after engine reaches operating temp (ambient temps on site in middle? GA in the 40-70F range)

So to address each item separately
1. this is a pricey part which doesn't do much in your location and only helps a bit in colder areas. If it was me I'd - pull the viscous heater relay (R36 in the black plastic power distribution center forward of the battery) to disable the viscous heater clutch; grab an appropriate length/size of heater hose; reroute flow from tstat directly to the heater core inlet pipe thus bypassing the viscous heater. No more coolant = no more leak.
2. could be coming from a variety of places which includes a leaky heater core dripping out of the HVAC drain on the firewall below the coolant tank. If you cannot find it with a flashlight then try so coolant UV dye and a UV light (former local parts store, latter same or Amazon).
3. probably diesel fuel leaking past copper crush washer. May or may not relate to #4. For ca. $20 (http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info ... ts_id=3284) get 2 sets of replacement "O" rings and crush washers; install and see if leak and white smoke/vapor goes away.
4. your initial smoke/vapor looks just like my son's 06 in similar temps but his stops before getting a couple of hundred yds down the road and my 05 doesn't do that at all and neither do the billowing white thing. I'm guessing way rich on fuel during coldish start could be #3 as mentioned, could be leaky injector(s) pooling fuel but I'd think that would burn off quickly, could be injector(s) over fueling due to injector issue or bad ECU command for some reason. Not sure how to test for the latter but there is a leaky injector test that you can run - see 06 FSM pg 14-35 or 05 FSM with picture key pg 14-47 or how to; some bits of vinyl hose and 4 glass or plastic vials with quantity marks you can make will substitute for the referenced Miller tool.
Unfortunately, this leakage test is only for fuel-return leakage which would result in reduced injection pressure (you may have noticed the fuel return lines are rubber) - it does not address leakage past the needle\nozzle seal into the cylinder, of which we are possibly concerned - this leakage can be checked only in a BOSCH, BACHARACH, STANADYNE, or other injector tester at rail pressures

Unusual failure would be internal blocked fuel-return passage, such that injection pressure could not bleed-off, which would promote needle\nozzle leak - a specific volume of bleed-off is inherent in injector design - again, testable only in an injector tester

Yes check air box for critter stuff and/or dirty air filter.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:54 pm

Oh well I guess the test I mentioned in #4 won't help although based on the duration of smoke/vapor in the video I have a somewhat hard time believing that's a leaky injector(s) after shutdown causing excess fuel burn off at startup. My gut, may be just wrong indigestion, feel is that excess fuel would clear up pretty much right away. Thoughts?

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:46 pm

Yeah, me too - seems awfully long duration for an after shut-down leak - I still sorta lean towards first winter with winter fuel and ETECNO gp's, but his KJ has ~150k miles so could be accumulation of normally-deteriorated components - would help diagnosis by strapping a scantool on it - that FSM test would usually reveal a weak cylinder, whether slight or noticeable miss, so pulling injectors and sending them for test\repair may be necessary - I just am opposed to suggesting any cash outlay B4 all possibilities have been exhausted, so to speak

maxf15 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:30 pm **Posts:** 52

Ok, heater hose/clamps purchased; copper crush washers on order. I'm going to bypass the viscous heater pump, replace the o-rings and crush washers on #3 and #4 injector and go from there.

I'll post the results when I get the work done.

Thanks gents... and I use that term loosely!

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:02 pm

One causative for wet around injector bases would be leaking fuel-return lines - they're just rubber, and rubber deteriorates under heat and ozone conditions found in engine-bay scenarios

rancherman · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:45 pm

gmctd wrote:

One causative for wet around injector bases would be leaking fuel-return lines - they're just rubber, and rubber deteriorates under heat and ozone conditions found in engine-bay scenarios

don't forget some of the 'snake piss' additives added (and often OVERLY ADDED) to keep fuel from gelling... likely some rubber may not like it too well!

alin.neag · **Joined:** Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:37 am **Posts:** 2

Have you ever solved the mystery?
I have the exact problem.

nocubicles · **Joined:** Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:49 pm **Posts:** 2

I have the same issue with my CRD.

First lets start with the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umTVpaVCEeo

When it got cold (less then 5celcius) I started to notice the car smokes quite a lot. Didn't notice any smoke during the summer when it was warmer.

Car also didn't start well so I had glowplugs changed but that didn't help the smoke.

Last time I drove the car was 2 months ago and then it smoked heavily after start and didn't stop smoking if I let it run idle for like 30 minutes or more. When I drive the car like 5 minutes the smoking stops but when I stop and start driving again after 5 minutes the smoking is back for like 5-10 minutes even when engine is hot. But then after few minutes the smoke is gone.

Basically when car is running idle its smoking and it doesn't stop but when driving the smoking will stop but comes back very quickly when stopped/running idle.

Car is also loosing coolant around ~1 liter per two weeks.

I haven't done any diagnostics yet since its a second car but the workshop I talked to thought it injectors.

I will take the car to the shop in next couple of weeks and then well see if it can be fixed or the car can be used only in the warmer times.

nocubicles · **Joined:** Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:49 pm **Posts:** 2

In my case the problem seems to be busted head gasket. Took it to the shop last week and will be getting it back by the end of this week and then well see.

Hard Start, Lots of White Smoke (but only for a few minutes)

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