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 Post subject: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:30 pm 
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I have a few questions for the group as I gambled on a 2006 KJ 2.8 CRD that has one or two dead cylinders, and bought it for $2,000.

After disassembling, I noticed someone had probed the injector wires, and knew I had a pretty good chance of scoring a 2.8 that someone just didn't know how to diagnose. The car has 114k miles on it, and has never had the timing belt replaced. Sure enough, there were 4 broken rockers under the valve cover. It looks like the belt either slipped a tooth, or the rockers seized and failed. None of them broke the tips off, but several are flat and the "lifter" separated or broke on a couple. I had to pull two of them out of the bores.

Below is a list of things I am doing while it is apart, most of the parts are from IDParts:

1. Timing belt, HD
2. Timing belt tensioner
3. Timing belt rollers
4. New rocker set
5. Thermostat, OEM
6. Head gasket, 1 hole
7. ARP headstuds
8. Glow plugs, steel 5v
9. Injector seals/orings
10. EGR/FCV/intake elbow
11. Graf water pump
12. Serpentine belt
13. Idlers
14. Tensioner
15. HD fan clutch
16. RGT/Boost pillar gauges

Possibly a Rocky Road 3" lift when I can prove it runs.

Is there anything I am missing that should be done while I have it this far apart that won't break the bank?

Thanks!


Last edited by Elementaltoad on Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:29 pm 
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Your list looks very good!
Just a few suggestions,
Quote:
1./5. Thermostat -- Get OEM Mopar, do not buy a Chinanism knock off or copy, they are junk right out of the box and can cause problems!
Get an OEM unit like IDParts sales: https://www.idparts.com/thermostat-oem- ... -2719.html
OEM Mopar Number: 5142601AA (See Picture1 )

2./15. HD fan clutch -- Get the GM 11 blade fan and heavy duty fan clutch, provides much better cooling over stock or aftermarket OEM size parts.

3. If you want to remove the power robbing and sometimes leaking viscous heater, I have kits in stock to delete it. (See Picture2)
PM or email me on this forum using the buttons below if interested.

1. OEM THERMOSTAT
Image

2. Viscous Heater Delete
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:48 pm 
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I sent you a message. Viscous heater delete sounds nice. I already bought a HD fan clutch from IDParts, but I think I'll be returning that. The GM fan and clutch is the same as what's used on my 2003 Silverado 2500HD, which means parts interchangeability, so I am definitely going that route. Thanks for the heads up!


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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:00 am 
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Elementaltoad:

Reconsider your idea of deleting the viscous heater if you live in a cold climate. They do indeed help warm up the engine a little faster when it is frigid outside. They also do not rob power or use any more fuel than the idler pulley in WWDiesel's viscous heater delete kit if they are functioning properly and are disengaging the viscous heater when the engine comes up to a proper operating temperature.

The proper operating temperature can not be had by using a replacement O.E. thermostat. For North America, O.E. thermostats have a lower operating temperature to help the engine comply with the Environmental Protection Agency's Oxides of Nitrogen emission standards. The rest of the world gets a 195 degree Fahrenheit thermostat, (an O.K. temperature); we here in North America get a 176 degree thermostat, which is far too cool for maximum efficiency of the engine.

WWDiesel knows this, so I am at a loss as to why he would recommend an O.E. throwaway thermostat when there are alternatives available. Shame on you, WW!

WW and I also have a difference of opinion regarding ARP head studs. If you are building a competition engine, then I would say go ahead and use them. Otherwise, stay away from them as they are not meant for engines that have aluminum head/iron block architecture where you want the engine to have long-term reliability. There are reasons for this and American Racing Products themselves DO NOT RECOMMEND the use of their products in any engine they have performed research and development on.

WWDiesel's recommendation regarding the use of the GM fan clutch and 11 blade plastic fan is a hands-down winner. That is something I can definitely support, especially for CRD engines that do a lot of towing.

I have sent you e-mail messages with articles I have written regarding what I have written above. One article outlines my top 6 CRD engine upgrades for all CRD engines in all climates and the other article spells out the reasons why ARP head studs should not be used in a non-competition CRD engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:31 pm 
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Please let me clarify a couple of things!

If you like your viscous heater, keep it!
I only offer a alternative product for those who would like to delete their viscous heater for any of the varied *reasons such as:
1. Viscous Heater electromatic clutch bearing bad and making noises
2. Body of unit or seal bad leaking antifreeze
3. Some just simply don't need or don't want the part on their engine just like the EGR parts.
COST wrote:
*Regardless of price, which was approaching $500.00 for a new unit, a NEW viscous heater is NO longer available in the US market by any of the major Mopar dealers, IDParts, or Sasquatch Parts, or any of the various online retailers.
All searches provide the same or similar statement:> This Product Is No Longer Available OR OUT OF STOCK
Actually, one of my northern customers is looking into collecting failed viscous heater cores and rebuilding them to make available for our northern owners who would like to keep their VH in service. I have been working with him on this project!

So if your viscous heater fails for whatever reason, I can provide a simple bolt on kit to totally replace the complete unit and continue the use of your OEM serpentine belt without any modifications or giving up the mechanical fan. Win Win!
As to the amount of load; the viscous heater does add some amount of load to the serpentine belt system when the clutch is engaged, about the same amount as the AC compressor, although very small as it may be, it is some HP required from the engine to rotate the heater as does any part requires that is being rotated/driven by the serpentine belt system from the crankshaft.

The reason I tell members about the OEM thermostat is that in most cases they are wanting or needing a replacement unit right now and do not have the luxury of waiting for several months to obtain one of the custom built units or they simply choose not to spend the amount of money it takes to purchase a custom unit.
I also warn against purchasing one of the online Chinism type knockoffs as there have been quite a few reports of failures right out of the box or soon after installing one of them. :banghead:
So, an OEM thermostat is a better choice if you have to have a new unit right now and can't wait. Simple as that!
I have always said the custom thermostat is nice unit, I actually have one myself, but if you need a new thermostat right now, there are some other options available... :wink:

The ARP Head Studs: I think they over time have proved themselves as a superior product over OEM, just like the custom thermostat! :2cents:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:05 pm 
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WWDiesel:

I appreciate the clarification.

Yes, the viscous heater - part number 55037539AA - is discontinued in Canada as well.

Viscous heaters do not fail very often, but when they do it is nice to know there is a delete kit available for those CRD owners in warm climates. For those of us in cold climates the viscous heater is a necessity, and we like the fact someone is attempting to rebuild them. What is the person's name that is rebuilding them? I will try and source used viscous heaters for him/her.

You are indeed correct... the viscous heater does have some parasitic drag on the engine.... when the clutch is engaged and the viscous heater is working to heat up engine coolant. OTHERWISE, the pulley is simply freewheeling and not causing any more parasitic drag on the engine than your viscous delete kit. This is another reason why the engine operating temperatures must go higher on North American Liberty CRDs... at least high enough so that the viscous heater is only engaged a minimum number of times. The case being made that deleting the viscous heater will net you more horsepower and better fuel economy is somewhat dubious and only applies when someone is operating with a failed or failing thermostat; at that point the engine is running too cool anyway and your loss of fuel economy and power has more to do with poor combustion efficiency than parasitic drag from the viscous heater.

ElementalToad mentioned in his opening post that this is going to be a major service on the CRD engine. There is no "rush" for a thermostat assembly in this circumstance. The custom alternative is FAR superior in function, FAR better quality, is serviceable rather than the throwaway O.E. part. It is definitely worth the wait. OEM thermostat assemblies can do in a pinch, but they contribute to engines being clogged out with pollutants if they are used in the long run. You are correct that the Chinese made knockoff thermostat assemblies are even worse than the BEHR manufactured factory thermostat assemblies. People using the Chinese made assemblies have indeed reported early failures, failures of the thermostat valve failing closed leading to engine overheat events, and catastrophic failures with coolant leaking out of the crimp in the housings.

Look closer at ARP head stud use in aluminum head/iron block engines that are designed for longevity, (NOT designed for competition).
The strength of the extreme quality ARP head stud is not required in these circumstances. To get to that level of strength the studs must do away with any desirable qualities that are required of a torque-to-yield bolt in an aluminum head/iron block application. Those qualities are for the fastener to be able to stretch to accommodate the aluminum head expanding more than the iron block it is bolted to under normal operation, and then to shrink back down to original length when the engine is cold. They are also required to stretch beyond their limits if the cylinder head starts to warp to accommodate that warp rather than having the cylinder head crack. Torque-to-yield bolts have these properties; the evidence of this is the many times CRD owners have encountered TTY bolts that require only about 20 to 30 ft-lbs of torque to remove when they perform a cylinder head gasket replacement.

ARP head studs will not stretch at all during operation of the engine; they will only expand thermally. This is a desirable feature for competition engines that generate 2, 3 or even 4 times as much power as a bone stock engine because the engine needs to not catastrophically fail during competition, so you can win the race or whatever competition you have entered with your ride. The thermal expansion of ARP head will not be nearly enough to properly accommodate the extra expansion of the aluminum head and definitely will not expand enough to accommodate a cylinder head warp. Therefore, your chances of the cylinder head cracking are greatly increased when ARP head studs are used.

Remember that there is one common element of ALL competition engines, which is they never last very long before catastrophically failing or requiring a major overhaul and rebuild. This is a natural outcome of any race engine; builders of these engines are trying to get every ounce of power out of the engine because winning the competition or race is the number 1, 2, 3, and 4th priority, (really the only priority), NOT engine longevity. If a race engine is lasting a long time between rebuilds then the builder is not putting together a competitive enough engine. With a properly built race engine, there are almost never enough heat/cool cycles during operation in a race or competition to cause a head warp before the engine needs to be rebuilt, so the desirable qualities of TTY bolts are never required.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:57 pm 
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Unfortunately I already bought the ARP studs since they come with the service kit and I'll be using those. I use them on everything I build, but if it is that big of an issue on these engines in particular - I'm a little pissed that supporting vendors on these forums are conning members out of $400 bucks for ARP hardware they recommend and include in their kits by defaults.

I will leave the stock thermostat and viscous heater until I can prove it runs, these engines sound pretty fragile. I already have the engine apart and the head will be going back on this weekend, unfortunately due to even basic parts availability, it has been sitting for nearly 6 months as is. What are the aftermarket thermostat alternatives and costs? $200 or more I'd wager? Not a cost I can swallow after wasting this much on maintenance items.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead 2006 CRD rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:36 pm 
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Elementaltoad wrote:
Unfortunately I already bought the ARP studs since they come with the service kit and I'll be using those. I use them on everything I build, but if it is that big of an issue on these engines in particular - I'm a little pissed that supporting vendors on these forums are conning members out of $400 bucks for ARP hardware they recommend and include in their kits by defaults.
I will leave the stock thermostat and viscous heater until I can prove it runs, these engines sound pretty fragile. I already have the engine apart and the head will be going back on this weekend, unfortunately due to even basic parts availability, it has been sitting for nearly 6 months as is. What are the aftermarket thermostat alternatives and costs? $200 or more I'd wager? Not a cost I can swallow after wasting this much on maintenance items.

The ARP studs have pretty much proved themselves over time, probably well over 100 or more engines have had the ARP studs installed in them. As long as you stick to the established recommended tightening torque for the studs, you should be fine. And the studs are so much easier to set the torque on versus all the degree stuff you have to go through with the OEM stretch to yield head bolts. If you have questions about them, there are a few members on this forum who have installed a bunch of them you can ask.

As to the thermostat, there is only one custom thermostat available that a person up in Canada sales. Lead time may be long at times and the price is on up there.
The last quote I found was on another forum and that was back in 2015, have no idea what they are selling for now. It is a good unit, but it certainly is not cheap!
TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK post: wrote:
Here is the part that shocks a few people... I sell them to U.S. customers for $465.00 USD... this equates to about 314.22 GBP.

Best bet if you don't have the time for the long lead times and / or do not want to spend the big bucks for the custom unit, is to purchase an OEM Mopar thermostat from IDParts, Sasquatch Parts, or one of the online Mopar vendors. They run in the $130-150 range depending where you look. Don't waste your time or money on any of the cheap chinaism knockoffs' sold on ebay, amazon and by others; they will not last and in some cases are defective brand new right out of the box, they are junk! Not worth risking your engine with one of them!

https://www.idparts.com/thermostat-oem- ... -2719.html
Thermostat [OEM] (Liberty CRD)
OEM Mopar OEM Number: 5142601AA :google:

As to the viscous heater, if you decide you want to remove it, I can provide a simple bolt on kit, no modifications required, Gates pulley & custom bracket, that allows you to remove the OEM viscous heater and reuse the OEM serpentine belt. Comes with complete illustrated installation procedures. email or PM me if interested using the buttons below.

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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