It is currently Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:55 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:34 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
SJBrooks wrote:
Yes WW, a diagram for the wiring would be awesome!
Steve

Here is your wiring diagram for an Intake Air Heater.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:19 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Thanks WW! Do you, or anybody else, have any experience with either of those particular in-line and screw-in versions? If not those, can you or anybody else recommend a particular one? Has anybody added a second battery to their CRD? If yes, how did you do it?

I greatly appreciate the info received so far, as I'm trying to get this done well before winter starts here in NM!

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:08 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
SJBrooks wrote:
Thanks WW! Do you, or anybody else, have any experience with either of those particular in-line and screw-in versions? If not those, can you or anybody else recommend a particular one? Has anybody added a second battery to their CRD? If yes, how did you do it?
I greatly appreciate the info received so far, as I'm trying to get this done well before winter starts here in NM!
Steve
Sent you a message.

I reside in the deep south, so cold starts is a non-issue for me.
But if I were to build one of these add on intake heater kits, I would look at the amp or BTU rating of the heaters for the most efficient unit.
While the screw in heaters are simple, they are small and may not provide as much heat as the inline grid type heater.
I like the looks of the inline grid heater, but a drawback to it is it very expensive, well over $300. For that kind of money, you could just install one of the webasto diesel heaters.

If I were building one for my Jeep and I needed a lot of heat for extreme cold weather starts, I would consider installing two (2) of the screw in type heaters and activate them a little longer time period than 10-15 seconds for pre-starts in extreme cold temperatures.

As to the battery: IF you replace the stock battery with a very good group 65 AGM, you should be able to get by with a single battery. See my gp. 65 battery installation picture below.
Since there is very little extra room in the engine compartment to fit a second battery, you could put one in the rear cargo area in a sealed battery box and use large battery cable wire to run the supply all the way to the front engine compartment. See Picture No. 2

Keep in mind, there was one member on this forum who actually fitted two batteries where the current battery sets, but I could not find his post with pictures.
Personally I think one good very high group 65 CCA rated AGM battery should work just fine. If I wanted a lot more CCA rated battery, I would consider trying to fit a group 31 battery, they have some impressive numbers. :D

Group 65 Battery installed.
Image

Picture No. 2, Sealed Battery Box
Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:11 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Thanks again, WW! While the screw-in types are certainly cheaper, I'm concerned about securing them to the pipe (I have the Weeks intake with the Samco hose). I believe a nut would have to go on the inside of the pipe, right? That nut would have to locked on there somehow, but still be removeable. One way to get around that would be to machine a boss with the proper thread size/pitch and weld it to the pipe, but that's laborious too. That in mind, at this time, I'm leaning toward the in-line version. Yes, it is approx $400, but as they say "buy once and cry once". Would love to have a Webasto heater, but I'm seeing approx $1400 for one that'll fit the Sasquatch mount. If that's indeed accurate, then it's way more expensive than the in-line version. About that in-line one: they come in 3" and 3.5" o.d. versions. Do you or anybody else know the i.d. of the Samco post-intercooler hose? I've got mine sealed really well, so don't want to have to break it loose to measure it. Also, what make/model of battery is it that you've got installed on your sasquatch mount?

THANKS for the info!

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:05 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
The battery is a NorthStar gp 65 AGM with some impressive numbers: 1070 A CCA @32 deg.s F, 1750 Pulse cranking amps.
But unfortunately they are no longer available, EnerSys (Odyssey Batteries) bought them out about a year or two ago. Bought out the competition to get rid of them I presume?

Now it would be: ODYSSEY Extreme Battery ODX-AGM65, has basically the same ratings as the NorthStar.
Like you said, buy once, cry once, they are not cheap batteries, just like the OPTIMA batteries!

Building an inline metal pipe tubing hose connector that would have a nut of the correct thread pitch for the screw in heater welded to it would be relatively simple to do.
Or have a nut of the correct pitch welded to the FCV delete tubing could be done as well.

As to the inline heater, would have to use one that is short enough to fit in the 2" or so pipe size for the boost hose.
HECK NO, you would never put a nut on the INSIDE of an air intake tube on an engine. :grim:
Pistons, heads, and valves do not like metal objects going through the combustion chamber! :dead:

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:51 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:01 pm
Posts: 12
Hi Kids, I've been away from this forum for some time, life got in the way of my CRD project. I've gone down the grid heater rabbit hole and this is what I found.Image ImageImageThis heater is from a compact tractor. The footprint is the same as the FCV.ImageThe problem is that teeny tiny hose connection.Image The solution is to remove it. I don't have access to a milling machine, so the correct size hole saw will have to do.ImageImage Now we need to port match and drill and tap the elbow for a boost gauge and thermocouple.Image ImageNow we test it.Image I think it has potential. 300 deg F at 34 amps of current draw. This will replace the FCV in my CRD. EGR delete,OMG, call the EPA.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:13 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
If that is the same size and bolt hole distance as the flange on the intake manifold/valve cover, could it be sandwiched between the intake flange and the FCV delete elbow that many now have?
A lot of owners no longer have the OEM FCV elbow.
But it certainly looks like it has potential.
Any ideas on cost for heater?

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:58 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:01 pm
Posts: 12
Green Farm Parts shows them for $66.10. Some places show a newer version, different part #, $100ish. I started fooling with this in 2015. I wanted something that could replace the FCV and was plug & play. At the time I wasn't aware of any kits, plus I already had the heater for my tractor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:37 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
The Weeks intake (at least the one I have) has an o.d. of approx 2.25". Of the screw-in heaters mentioned in this thread so far, which one's length would be the best fit for the Weeks intake? I tried looking on-line for the length specs of the mentioned heaters but couldn't find anything on that.

The heater-matched-to-the-FCV is an interesting option though...

Thanks all,

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:51 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
I still prefer the grid heater concept better, placing it between the intake manifold and elbow. The one with the four mounting holes, it is used on quite a few small diesel engine tractors. Plenty of them are available on line.
Just need to verify the distance between the hole on them. Best I found was 90mm (3.5") center to center of bolt holes.
Image

But I found this screw in type online with dimensions, it should fit ok. US $79.00
Could always add a washer or spacer to limit the depth into the tube/pipe.

Produced a drawing with dimensions:

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:43 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Thanks (again) WW! Greatly appreciate your replies and technical input. Believe it's time I get off the fence and move on with this project, so I'll keep all informed as it goes along.

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:05 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Hi all,

I'm making (some) progress on this topic, but have a question I want to make sure of. I got a solenoid (an Standard SS-547) for use as suggested, but there's a note in the box that states "...do not use this solenoid for vehicles fitted with an on-board computer...vehicles with a computer require a solenoid with suppression diodes...". Since this solenoid won't be tied into the start system, or really any other standard vehicle system, and only used in this auxiliary heater aspect, it still would be ok to use, right?

Any inputs will be appreciated!

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:55 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
SJBrooks wrote:
Hi all,
I'm making (some) progress on this topic, but have a question I want to make sure of. I got a solenoid (an Standard SS-547) for use as suggested, but there's a note in the box that states "...do not use this solenoid for vehicles fitted with an on-board computer...vehicles with a computer require a solenoid with suppression diodes...". Since this solenoid won't be tied into the start system, or really any other standard vehicle system, and only used in this auxiliary heater aspect, it still would be ok to use, right?
Any inputs will be appreciated!
Steve

Researching online, seems to be a Ford thing with the "S" terminal causing dangerous high voltage spikes when the load is removed and the magnetic field collapses that can backfeed into the electrical system and damage a processor.
They recommend adding a diode in the circuit to the "S" terminal so current can only travel in one direction and not backfeed when the solenoid contacts open.

I personally would not use a Ford type solenoid but instead I would use a heavy duty Cummins/Dodge Grid Heater Relay.
They are rated for 100 Amps continuous duty and are installed OEM on many computer equipped vehicles and designed for this purpose.
Plenty of them available online.
Two different styles, either one of them would work. :D
RELAY-75565 or 5187880AC :google:
ImageImage

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:10 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Thanks WW! I'm more familiar with those single wire-to-the-switch kind of solenoids, as shown in your diagram above. What would the wiring diagram be for the Cummins kind of solenoid you've suggested?

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:53 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
SJBrooks wrote:
Thanks WW! I'm more familiar with those single wire-to-the-switch kind of solenoids, as shown in your diagram above. What would the wiring diagram be for the Cummins kind of solenoid you've suggested?
Steve

Look at these wiring diagrams. If you have questions, let me know.

Image

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:24 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
Thanks again WW (for about the tenth time...)!

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:57 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:06 pm
Posts: 49
Location: New Mexico
I think I'm going to jump on this boat! Will be ordering the grid heater. I have the factory elbow. Thanks to all that have worked on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:34 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
STILL pushing this noodle up the hill, it seems... I have a Standard Motor Products (SMP) DIH4 screw-in heater, and need the thread size and pitch for it. I called SMP, and they said "...we have no specs on that item...". Does anybody know the thread size and pitch for it?

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:30 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: Central GA
SJBrooks wrote:
STILL pushing this noodle up the hill, it seems... I have a Standard Motor Products (SMP) DIH4 screw-in heater, and need the thread size and pitch for it. I called SMP, and they said "...we have no specs on that item...". Does anybody know the thread size and pitch for it?
Steve

The thread size of the IAH is 22mm x 1.5mm
NTERCHANGE for Standard Motor Products (SMP) DIH4:
Airtex: 1S12230
Duralast: EAH5
Isuzu: 8972519740
CARQUEST Premium By WELLS: 53-21605
General Motors: 97251974
Echlin: AIH101
BWD: AIH104

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grid Heater Project (Proof of Concept)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:43 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:01 am
Posts: 24
And it's WW for the win, again! Your ability to provide accurate info, and quickly, is quite noticeable and GREATLY appreciated.

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com