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 Post subject: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:59 pm 
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Posts: 21
Location: West Georgia
Truck has no low end torque and accelerates very slowly off the line. Can not maintain speed going up hills.

Jeep has weeks kit + a yeti tune. Silicon turbo hoses.

Is this a complete list of what can cause this code and symptoms?

#1 malfunctioning vacuum/turbo control system.
#2 leak in the charged air system.
#3 faulty map sensor or wiring.
#4 malfunctioning fuel pressure control system.
#5 air in the fuel due to leak in fuel line/fuel filter head.
#6 clogged cat
#7 leak in exhaust manifold between head and turbo.
#8 bad turbo

I have done a bunch already to narrow down what is causing this.

#1
I bypassed the vacuum solenoid. this didn't make any difference. Turbo did spool down while I had the hose disconnected.
I measured vacuum at the tank next to the power steering fluid. It measured 22 inches of mercury. I measured it after the vacuum modulator and it was around 20in/hg. What should this number be?
I also confirmed that the arm on the turbo moves freely and can make it to it's stop. I will do this again from under the jeep while it is idling and see if the arm is reaching it's stop. I will be ordering silicon vacuum line from the whole truck just because I want to make this one rock solid reliable. I plan on using the picture from this thread as a guild. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=92192&p=949852&hilit=Vacuum+modulator&sid=fc016d5833da55f5ffb4b516b1f85cae#p949852

#2
I built a pressure test fitting and used my air compressor to test the charge air system. It held up to 30psi. I could test higher but I don't trust the pressure regulator on my air compressor. During this testing I did find a few faulty or about to fail hose clamps. The PO had used an ebay weeks style kit and the hose clamps and J pipe are junk and wouldn't seal. They have been replaced with clamps off my parts jeep and a real weeks J pipe. I can squeeze the hose coming out of the turbo at idle but when run up to 3000RPM I can not squeeze it.

#3
PO had installed a new MAP sensor. It worked and torque was reporting reasonable numbers. The sensor was a weird part number and color.
0281006076 It crosses to the chevy colorado with the 2.8 CRD duramax. I swapped another normal 0281002845 back in. I have not herd of anyone using this sensor. just the sensor from the chevy cruz.

#4
torque reports fuel rail pressure. getting around 5Kpsi at idle and up to and above 20kpsi while driving. I think the sensor and regulators are working properly. are there any tell tail signs that air is in the fuel system?

#5
The fuel head didn't seem to hold prime at all. I could pump it up and let all the air out of it and come back an hour later and it would have air in it again.
I replaced the hose from the head to the cp3 with new hose and replaced the head with one off my parts jeep with a new filter. the parts jeep has been sitting for a few years and still had fuel pulled up the supply line. How long will it take for air to get out of the fuel rail if this is the problem? Is there a faster why to get the air out if it has any? I may try and find a while to temporarily supply fuel with a pump to see if this fixes the problem.

#6
I pulled the down pipe off and still have the problem. So the cat is probably fine.

#7
This one maybe hard to find. i don't see any soot anywhere and don't hear anything strange. I may get a mechanics stethoscope and trying to hear whats going on. I am also going to check on that VNT vane arm while it is running from under the truck maybe I will see something.

#8
I took pictures of the turbo turbine and compressor sides. I don't see any housing contact. The thing spins very easy and seems pretty tight in and out and side to side.

Am I missing anything?

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05 KJ CRD JBA 2.5in lift waiting on an engine rebuild
05 KJ CRD mostly stock currently under the knife
05 KJ CRD mostly stock
18 Ram 3500 crewcab flatbed
kubota M6800


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:26 pm 
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Some thoughts.
You said it has a Weeks kit, so it has no EGR parts still on engine, ???? If FCV is still in the circuit, it can can hang almost shut and prevent air and boost flow from entering the intake manifold. They are notorious for doing this.

Check cam timing using the pins and make sure one or both of the cams are not out of time with the crankshaft. Retarded cam timing would really make it have low power!
As to air in fuel, adding an intank fuel pump cures air in fuel issues for good. Never have to worry about them again.
Turbo vacuum modulator valve controls vane movement, so if it is faulty, the vanes may not be opening enough to give it the proper boost even if you good vacuum on the supply side of the modulator valve.
The little small plastic pipe/hose that goes from the modulator valve to the turbo vane actuator has been found to colasape or crack and prevent full vacuum control from reaching the turbo vanes. Several have found this including myself. Worth checking real close.

Install a mechanical boost pressure gauge to see what your actual boost pressure is doing when accelerating.
It will tell you an awful lot when trying to diagnose a problem such as this.

Are you getting a lot of black smoke when accelerating? If so, that is a sure sign of either under boost or over fueling or a combination of both.

Here is my standard checklist for low boost issues; you have already covered some of the items to check.

Image

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 21
Location: West Georgia
Ok after messing with the fuel head and trying to watch the arm on the turbo from under the jeep I found this.
Image

Image

I think that is a Kennedy pump. So I wondered why I had never herd it running or saw fuel coming from the bleed screw while I was messing with it.
I opened up the fuse box and the 10amp fuse in spot 17 was missing. The relay was in 38 I pulled that and had a look. it had very little corrosion on it. I pulled the 10amp fuse from spot 17 off my parts jeep and placed it on this jeep. I still didn't hear anything from the pump when I turned the key on. I even tried touching the pump to see if I could feel it running. Nothing. So I pulled out my Volt meter and checked the fuse and relay socket everything looked good.

So I need to check for voltage under the truck. I made a short wire with male spade terminals on both ends. I plugged this into large spade spots in the relay socket. Under the jeep I found two butt connectors I have never seen before. they unscrew at each end and basically have free bare wire. The middle has a piece of metal I thought was a fuse with pointed ends. I checked for continuity across the metal pieces because I thought they were fusees. And checked for 12volts between the red and black wires. The fuse looking things conducted and there was 12volts. I screwed everything back together and the pump to a second to spin up but it was running.

i double check that it was controlled by the fuel priming circuit by pulling my jumper wire and also by pulling the 10amp fuse. everything looked good.
I primed the fuel filter by opening the bleed screw and putting the jumper wire across the relay terminals. fuel came out the bleed valve. It was not a lot of fuel and it was not very fast flowing but it was a steady slow stream. I closed the bleed screw and put everything back the way it should be in the fuse box.

I then took the jeep for a drive down the road. I seemed to do a little better on the steep hills. But I would not call it fixed. I think I may have to drive it a lot more if air in the fuel is causing my issue. I would say if this helped it helped by maybe 10%.

I could not get a good look at the vane control arm on the turbo from under the jeep with a mirror. I have a USB boroscope camera on the way from amazon. I could however touch the actuator rod and feel it move. On start up it moves quite a bit and when reving to 2300k or so it backs off a little and then lets off completely when throttle is removed and pulls it back in pretty far once idle is achieved.

_________________
05 KJ CRD JBA 2.5in lift waiting on an engine rebuild
05 KJ CRD mostly stock currently under the knife
05 KJ CRD mostly stock
18 Ram 3500 crewcab flatbed
kubota M6800


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:46 pm 
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Keep in mind, any in-line fuel pump installed on these vehicles can still suck air into the fuel system on the suction side of the pump between the pump and the fuel tank.
The push on fuel line fittings located on top of the fuel tank and where the fuel line connects to the metal fuel line on the frame are designed for pressure systems, NOT vacuum systems. Although Jeep used these type fittings on the Jeep CRD suction system, then can leak and allow air to be sucked into the fuel system.

That is why I always recommend installing an in-tank fuel pump inside the tank since it puts everything under positive pressure all the way from inside the fuel tank to the back of the CP3 injection pump. If there is a leak anywhere on the system, it will be self evident very quickly as fuel will leak out rather than air being sucked into the fuel system. :D

If you are going to use an in-line type fuel lift pump, be sure and remove the push-on type fuel line fittings and replace the hose with diesel rated fuel line hose with good quality crimp on or fuel injection type hose clamps.
I do not recommend the cheap worm gear screw type clamps as they tend to work loose over time. :wink:

Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 21
Location: West Georgia
yesterday, I pulled the tank and replaced the quick connect hoses with fuel line and used the injector style clamps.

I also pulled the fuel feed line out enough to cut the crimped end off with a dremel. This hose was also replaced with a new hose with injector style hose clamps.

The feed hose from the tank to hard line I left on the long side(3ft ish) so I could add a lift pump later.
I primed the system normally and replaced the turbo to inter-cooler hose(newer ID parts hose) with a older samco hose. I did this because I had never removed this hose from the inter-cooler before. These ID parts hoses seem to build up oil on the out side of them.

I took the jeep for a drive. during the drive I swapped the turbo vacuum control line on to the vacuum canister. So full vacuum all the time. It basically gave me a P0234 over boot and limp mode instantly. So I put that back the way it should be an drove back home still in limp mode.

Guess this shows that the map sensor and turbo at least somewhat work.
Tried clearing codes a few times with no luck so I called it a day.

Today I played around with the torque app and logging.
I have found that my thermostat is probably failed open. Topping out at around 160F
My logs all seem to work for a few minutes and then something hangs up and I only RPM seems to change and all other values are frozen.
I would probably blame the cheap bluetooth adapter. It was only $12 a few years ago.

Image

Boost/Vac is what torque calls "turbo boost &vacuum gauge"
IMP is what torque calls "Intake Manifold Pressure"

I think IMP maybe closest to the map sensor reading. As you can see it never really makes it to 30psi.
I have gotten a hold of a mechanical boost gauge and will be installing as soon as I get some adapter fittings.

I have labeled all 3 of my vacuum modulator and solenoid sets. I have swapped them out the original set and put in the one from my parts jeep and have been running all my tests with those. I will try it with the set from the jeep that is getting head work done. Also I have some new cheap vacuum line I can swap out the turbo vacuum hose with but im pretty sure it will not make a difference.

I have the silicone vac hose on the way and it would get here before the weekend.

Has anyone run a reused turbo gasket long term? what about the turbo oil feed and return gasket and seals? I think I want to pull the turbo and clean out the vanes and or swap around the vane actuators. is the turbo actuator available on the aftermarket?

Thanks.

_________________
05 KJ CRD JBA 2.5in lift waiting on an engine rebuild
05 KJ CRD mostly stock currently under the knife
05 KJ CRD mostly stock
18 Ram 3500 crewcab flatbed
kubota M6800


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
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You can test the actuator with a simple hand vacuum pump, several available online.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51M ... UL320_.jpg

Don't recall anyone ever saying they found that they had a bad actuator.
Most low boost issues are caused by other issues. Have you checked ALL your vacuum lines to make sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere?

If you find you do have a bad actuator, you might try contacting Joe Kirian at: Blackbird Innovations and see if he has any vane actuators he can sale you or provide you with part number. He rebuilds them so he may be able to help you???
Web page:> https://blackbirdinnovations.com/
Facebook page:> https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=b ... nnovations

See this for guide for checking for low boost issues.
Image

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: 05 P0299 under boost no smoke.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 21
Location: West Georgia
Ok installed some silicon vac hose today and did some testing.

Hooked up the vacuum gauge at the vacuum pump with new silicon hose.
Got 21.5in/hg
Hooked that up to the brake booster and a new line across the firewall skipping the Tee that goes into the cab.
This got the same reading at the vacuum canister next to the power steering pump.
measured after the solenoid and got 21in/hg
measured after the modulator and got 10in/hg.
all measurements taken at idle.

I also have a video I made of the vane arm moving under it's own power.
Image
Not sure if the video in google photos will work so here is a link to it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vQSTTP83U88QVwCs5

This shows an engine start and then some reving.

I think the vac system is working as well as it can, the turbo vane arm seems to be moving well enough.

Ether the turbo is just not making boost. there is boost leak I can't detect or the engine is just not making the power needed to make boost.

I'm going to double check for boost leaks again and mess with the fuel head some. If I see no improvement I'm going to investigate the cam timing.

_________________
05 KJ CRD JBA 2.5in lift waiting on an engine rebuild
05 KJ CRD mostly stock currently under the knife
05 KJ CRD mostly stock
18 Ram 3500 crewcab flatbed
kubota M6800


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