Crank, no start P0093 P0101

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

layback40 wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

Well I got the Bosch fuel pressure solenoid and installed it. No change to my symptoms. I will get the scanner on it and crank again soon. Based on the original codes, I am thinking maybe there must be air getting into the system and I just can’t find it. I should’ve replaced the fuel pressure sensor as well, that maybe the only one I’ve yet to replace on the engine.

I also did a quick look but didn’t notice anything behind the fuel filter mounting bracket. Starting to get frustrated with the whole thing.

When cranking, it does make an odd sound about every second as if maybe it wants to fire but won’t. Not sure if that means anything. Having to wait a week to get the next part to try is really getting old as well

I feel your pain.
I went as far as to replace the CP3 !
Got some great advice from ww , tested that the injectors were getting a signal, checked the pressure sensor output signal while cranking, it changed a little, but stayed at about the no crank value. Took the overflow hose off the fitting at the end of the rail & cranked, fuel came out the fitting even when the power connector was removed! So, after nearly a year of issues a problem was found. I am waiting for a new solenoid to arrive. Covering the end of the solenoid with foil & tried again, got good voltage output, up to 1.5v & no overflow. I stopped cranking as I did not want to have the signal go too high.
Hope to have the new solenoid next week.
Have you tested to see if the injectors are getting a signal when cranking? I used a simple small LED light to see this.
If you have good cranking fuel pressure signal & power to the injectors, it should start. It may need some starter fluid to help the first time.
You can put clear tube between the filter & the CP3 to see if you have air in the fuel.
Good Luck !!

How did you test everything? Just a voltage test at injector connection with a meter?
I’d like to test my crank sensor, can that be done using a resistance test on the terminals?

layback40 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:06 pm

wazmer07 wrote:

layback40 wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

Well I got the Bosch fuel pressure solenoid and installed it. No change to my symptoms. I will get the scanner on it and crank again soon. Based on the original codes, I am thinking maybe there must be air getting into the system and I just can’t find it. I should’ve replaced the fuel pressure sensor as well, that maybe the only one I’ve yet to replace on the engine.

I also did a quick look but didn’t notice anything behind the fuel filter mounting bracket. Starting to get frustrated with the whole thing.

When cranking, it does make an odd sound about every second as if maybe it wants to fire but won’t. Not sure if that means anything. Having to wait a week to get the next part to try is really getting old as well

I feel your pain.
I went as far as to replace the CP3 !
Got some great advice from ww , tested that the injectors were getting a signal, checked the pressure sensor output signal while cranking, it changed a little, but stayed at about the no crank value. Took the overflow hose off the fitting at the end of the rail & cranked, fuel came out the fitting even when the power connector was removed! So, after nearly a year of issues a problem was found. I am waiting for a new solenoid to arrive. Covering the end of the solenoid with foil & tried again, got good voltage output, up to 1.5v & no overflow. I stopped cranking as I did not want to have the signal go too high.
Hope to have the new solenoid next week.
Have you tested to see if the injectors are getting a signal when cranking? I used a simple small LED light to see this.
If you have good cranking fuel pressure signal & power to the injectors, it should start. It may need some starter fluid to help the first time.
You can put clear tube between the filter & the CP3 to see if you have air in the fuel.
Good Luck !!

How did you test everything? Just a voltage test at injector connection with a meter?
I’d like to test my crank sensor, can that be done using a resistance test on the terminals?

Crank position sensor, I had a good spare. I just compared the resistance with the spare.
The Pressure control solenoid is best tested by making sure there is no fuel passing into the overflow pipe while cranking. If you have a flow of fuel passing, you can try with the solenoid unplugged. Should be the same.
You can easily test the rail pressure while cranking by inserting a sewing needle through the insulation on the output wire (it can be sealed with a drop of super glue once all is fixed) & measure the voltage while cranking. I used a digital multi meter. Probably starts at about .5v & quickly climbs to over 1v if the rail pressure is good.

rankom · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:04 pm

wazmer07 wrote:

rankom wrote:

maybe one of the injectors is dumping fuel into cylinder start unplugging one at a time or try to find used fuel lines and make a tool to cap end of the injectors and monitor fuel pressure if it wants to start stop it immediately and check if all the exhaust valves are intact,

I’m open to try this, but do you believe that’s in line with the symptoms? If I’m getting fuel to the rail when cranking and P0093 was the code (along with P0101), I feel like it should be narrowed down. Is it possible the fuel pressure sensor could cause this?
I was close to ordering the lift pump upgrade but $600 and if fuel is going to the rail when cranking could that still cure it? I understand it may not have enough pressure but wouldn’t you get at least some fire if there were fuel and the injectors were getting a signal?

all im saying is you need above 5k for these injectors to fire so if you're not getting rail pressure for injection its not gonna start.

layback40 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:15 am

rankom wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

rankom wrote:

maybe one of the injectors is dumping fuel into cylinder start unplugging one at a time or try to find used fuel lines and make a tool to cap end of the injectors and monitor fuel pressure if it wants to start stop it immediately and check if all the exhaust valves are intact,

I’m open to try this, but do you believe that’s in line with the symptoms? If I’m getting fuel to the rail when cranking and P0093 was the code (along with P0101), I feel like it should be narrowed down. Is it possible the fuel pressure sensor could cause this?
I was close to ordering the lift pump upgrade but $600 and if fuel is going to the rail when cranking could that still cure it? I understand it may not have enough pressure but wouldn’t you get at least some fire if there were fuel and the injectors were getting a signal?

all im saying is you need above 5k for these injectors to fire so if you're not getting rail pressure for injection its not gonna start.

What voltage are you getting on the output of the pressure sensor when cranking?
Are you getting a flow from the rail pressure control solenoid?
These 2 things will show where the problem is.

Bowtiecrazz · **Joined:** Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:51 am **Posts:** 19

I was reading some where online about the fuel pressure solenoid. It said unhook the hose right off the fuel rail
There shouldn't be fuel coming out of the return while cranking or at idle. I took mine off and started it at idle it is a constant flow of fuel pouring out. I have the p0093 code. Mine poops off at about 2000 rpm while driving.

So I'm hoping there some truth to this and it will fix my issue. I would like to be able to drive this thing.

layback40 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:33 pm

Bowtiecrazz wrote:

I was reading some where online about the fuel pressure solenoid. It said unhook the hose right off the fuel rail
There shouldn't be fuel coming out of the return while cranking or at idle. I took mine off and started it at idle it is a constant flow of fuel pouring out. I have the p0093 code. Mine poops off at about 2000 rpm while driving.

So I'm hoping there some truth to this and it will fix my issue. I would like to be able to drive this thing.

Its fuel flowing out the pipe on the side of the rail, not flowing from the tube that you have taken off it.
If you have too much fuel flowing out of the tube, you may have an injector issue.
If you use a multi meter & check the voltage output of the fuel rail sensor, its about 2/3 of the way down the rail, when cranking, you should see at least 1v. You can poke a sewing needle through the insulation of the output wire, so you have a point for the meter. Look at the wiring diagram to get the right wire.

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

Recently tried the fuel pressure sensor. I am now able to get a reading on fuel pressure, like 16-18000 kPa. Still no start. What is the problem? What else could cause injectors to not fire?

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

If it is the cP3, would I still be able to read fuel pressure?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:22 pm

wazmer07 wrote:

If it is the cP3, would I still be able to read fuel pressure?

If the CP3 is pumping up and supplying adequate fuel rail pressure, the injection pump is not the problem.
It is very rare to read of an actual CP3 failure, it is usually found that something else was causing the problem.
If you have good fuel rail fuel pressure and the ECM is not firing the injectors electrically, there is something else that the ECM is not satisfied with causing the no start condition.

Some items that can cause a no start condition:

**Air in fuel**

(Inadequate fuel supply to CP3 will prevent injection pump from supplying proper fuel pressure to fuel rail)

(voltage level dropping below minimum required voltage for ECM to function properly. ~8 volts or less at ECM)

(If no CPS signal is present, the ECM will not allow engine to start/run)

The Fuel Control Actuator solenoid valve is a pulse-width modulated valve that controls the amount of fuel sent or delayed to the high-pressure pump elements inside the high-pressure pump.

Regulates lubrication to internal parts of the injection pump and regulates the fuel pressure to the fuel quantity solenoid valve on the back of CP3 injection pump. Also, controls the amount of fuel being returned to the fuel tank via the fuel return line.

aka: Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve (The fuel pressure solenoid controls and maintains the rail pressure constant along with a control current provided by the engine control module (ECM))

(leaking by not allowing fuel rail pressure to build up to required operating pressure)

**No. 1 cause of No Start Condition!

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

WWDiesel wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

If it is the cP3, would I still be able to read fuel pressure?

If the CP3 is pumping up and supplying adequate fuel rail pressure, the injection pump is not the problem.
It is very rare to read of an actual CP3 failure, it is usually found that something else was causing the problem.
If you have good fuel rail fuel pressure and the ECM is not firing the injectors electrically, there is something else that the ECM is not satisfied with causing the no start condition.

Some items that can cause a no start condition:

**Air in fuel**

(Inadequate fuel supply to CP3 will prevent injection pump from supplying proper fuel pressure to fuel rail)

(voltage level dropping below minimum required voltage for ECM to function properly. ~8 volts or less at ECM)

(If no CPS signal is present, the ECM will not allow engine to start/run)

The Fuel Control Actuator solenoid valve is a pulse-width modulated valve that controls the amount of fuel sent or delayed to the high-pressure pump elements inside the high-pressure pump.

Regulates lubrication to internal parts of the injection pump and regulates the fuel pressure to the fuel quantity solenoid valve on the back of CP3 injection pump. Also, controls the amount of fuel being returned to the fuel tank via the fuel return line.

aka: Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve (The fuel pressure solenoid controls and maintains the rail pressure constant along with a control current provided by the engine control module (ECM))

(leaking by not allowing fuel rail pressure to build up to required operating pressure)

**No. 1 cause of No Start Condition!

Okay so since my scanner is able to read rpm and fuel pressure, it must be 5 or 6?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:51 am

wazmer07 wrote:

Okay so since my scanner is able to read rpm and fuel pressure, it must be 5 or 6?

The amount of return fuel flow can be observed by removing the fuel return lines and observing the amount of fuel being returned to the fuel tank while the engine is being cranked.
While cranking, there should be almost no fuel being returned until the fuel rail pressure has been is satisfied. (Signal to the ECM from the Fuel Pressure Sensor)

Maybe these will be of help to you?

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

I’m reading no rpm from the camshaft when cranking. Fuel pressure gets up to 16000kPa. Can I ohm the camshaft sensor to see if I received one bad out of the box?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:06 pm

wazmer07 wrote:

I’m reading no rpm from the camshaft when cranking. Fuel pressure gets up to 16000kPa. Can I ohm the camshaft sensor to see if I received one bad out of the box?

If you ohm it, test from ground to 5v pins (1 to 3) with connector disconnected.
Pin 2 senses the pulse position.

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

WWDiesel wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

I’m reading no rpm from the camshaft when cranking. Fuel pressure gets up to 16000kPa. Can I ohm the camshaft sensor to see if I received one bad out of the box?

If you ohm it, test from ground to 5v pins (1 to 3) with connector disconnected.
Pin 2 senses the pulse position.

Thanks for the information. I tried that and am not able to get anything. I’m going to try a new one in the coming days

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

WWDiesel wrote:

wazmer07 wrote:

If it is the cP3, would I still be able to read fuel pressure?

If the CP3 is pumping up and supplying adequate fuel rail pressure, the injection pump is not the problem.
It is very rare to read of an actual CP3 failure, it is usually found that something else was causing the problem.
If you have good fuel rail fuel pressure and the ECM is not firing the injectors electrically, there is something else that the ECM is not satisfied with causing the no start condition.

Some items that can cause a no start condition:

**Air in fuel**

(Inadequate fuel supply to CP3 will prevent injection pump from supplying proper fuel pressure to fuel rail)

(voltage level dropping below minimum required voltage for ECM to function properly. ~8 volts or less at ECM)

(If no CPS signal is present, the ECM will not allow engine to start/run)

The Fuel Control Actuator solenoid valve is a pulse-width modulated valve that controls the amount of fuel sent or delayed to the high-pressure pump elements inside the high-pressure pump.

Regulates lubrication to internal parts of the injection pump and regulates the fuel pressure to the fuel quantity solenoid valve on the back of CP3 injection pump. Also, controls the amount of fuel being returned to the fuel tank via the fuel return line.

aka: Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve (The fuel pressure solenoid controls and maintains the rail pressure constant along with a control current provided by the engine control module (ECM))

(leaking by not allowing fuel rail pressure to build up to required operating pressure)

**No. 1 cause of No Start Condition!

I went as far as to install a lift pump and new fuel lines, still no start.
Where can I find info as to what the numbers should be?
Fuel pressure is still not reaching the set point and fuel pressure voltage is not getting to 1v when cranking, which I’ve heard is required.
The P0093 even popped up again before I cranked after lift pump install.
I’m left with only 5 or 6 on your list.
I’d like to know what the number is for adequate fuel pressure or if it is the set point.
What would be the reason for it not reaching that while cranking?
What would be the reason for fuel pressure voltage not reaching 1v?
Would a failure of 5 or 6 throw the P0093 code?
Could the engine have jumped out of time?

rankom · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:19 pm

if this was mine I would remove injectors and send them to a fuel injection shop for testing before I would throw more parts at it.

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

rankom wrote:

if this was mine I would remove injectors and send them to a fuel injection shop for testing before I would throw more parts at it.

I just got done capping each line 1 at a time and cranking.. still can’t build over 2600psi

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:01 pm

try to unplug M-PROP VALVE. located at cp3 pump that would send max fuel pressure to the rail

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:18 pm

wazmer07 wrote:

I just got done capping each line 1 at a time and cranking.. still can’t build over 2600psi

Since you have ruled out injectors!
**Air in fuel** leak on suction supply to CP3, stopped up fuel filter, etc… (Inadequate fuel supply to CP3 will prevent injection pump from supplying proper fuel pressure to fuel rail)
**No. 1 cause of No Start Condition!

With the electrical connector unplugged from the Fuel Pressure Solenoid:
How much fuel is being dumped out of the return line from Fuel Quality (pressure) Solenoid on the end of the fuel rail during the starting sequence.
Leaking fuel pressure solenoid (on end of fuel rail). There should be no fuel coming out of the solenoid return line while cranking the engine. Perform the fuel rail quality solenoid leak quantity test to determine if it is faulty. If the injectors check good, the fuel quality solenoid should hold 870-1450 psi when unplugged during cranking.
Fuel Quality Solenoid (on end of fuel rail) aka: Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve. The fuel quality solenoid controls and maintains the fuel rail pressure constant along with a control current provided by the engine control module.

How much fuel is being dumped out of the return line from Cascade/Overflow Valve on top of the CP3 injection pump during the starting sequence.
It regulates lubrication to internal parts of the injection pump and regulates the fuel pressure to the fuel quantity solenoid valve on the back of CP3 injection pump. Controls the amount of fuel being returned to the fuel tank via the fuel return line.

If there is no fuel being dumped out of the two items above during cranking, and you know for sure you are getting plenty of fuel supply to the CP3, and no injectors are dumping fuel; the CP3 is all that is left in the circuit. :cry:

wazmer07 · **Joined:** Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:41 am **Posts:** 23

rankom wrote:

try to unplug M-PROP VALVE. located at cp3 pump that would send max fuel pressure to the rail

I tried that, no change

Crank, no start P0093 P0101

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