Chrysler and the CRD Future

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:25 am

I agree with Darby, we must follow the chain of command showing that we have made all efforts to comply to Chrysler/Jeep. The rest of what I am about to say is my thoughts only. If all attempts have been made and if all attempts have failed, Jeep has nothing to stand by other than making a major recall replacing the entire transmission/torque converter/pump/and other key engineering failing components. Keep in mind that the Jeep CRD is still being made in Europe so the interest and refined parts will still be abundant as soon as this basket case is worked out. Once Jeep feels that they have successfully engineered the CRD, and it has been properly field tested (as they do with the Dodge Cummins) they will eventually (in my opinion) make that final recall fitting our 05 and 06 models with the new improved transmission or transmission parts. Chrysler/Jeep are legally binded to successfully meet the manufacturers warranty, expectations, and standards that was set forth. I believe that Chrysler/Jeep will take responsibility for their problems regarding the CRD. I know this sounds awfully hopeful, especially for those of us who have been through the wringer. Although, I really do believe that Jeep can not take the chance to make an ignorant attempt into the diesel market, especially now that the 07 Cherokee diesel is about to come out. Chrysler/Dodge continue their bragging rights towards the Dodge Cummins and have hyped up the CRD ever since they hinted of it’s existence. Today, Chrysler takes pride to be one of the first automakers to take the diesel into the North American market and continue to push forward for more diesel applications as they see Diesel being a fuel interest in the future. For these reasons I do not think Chrysler/Jeep can afford to let this one slide. Remember, Jeep could have continued to sell the CRD during the 07 year just like VW did with their TDI. However, it is my assumption that Chrysler/Jeep decided to stop the production until they fixed the transmission problem completely. The original protocol was to meet the 07 emissions. Chrysler attempted and failed to pass the 07 emissions for the final time in which Chrysler hinted that the CRD Liberty would come back out in 2008 once it was modified to meet and exceed the 07 emissions. Chrysler went on to say that the CRD demand was a success therefore verified the future market and interest for diesels in small applications. Even though my thoughts provide absolutely no answers, they may give you some hope!

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I only have 7,000 miles left on my warranty though. Would I be covered?

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:30 am

That is a good question, unfortunately a question that most of us fear. Last week I bought an extended bumper to bumper 7 year/100,000 mile warranty in which I paid $1,380 dollars for. Even though my CRD only had 19,800 miles on it when I made the purchase, it also had swapped owners 3 times. Since I was the “lucky” third owner, Chrysler/Jeep does not honor their original warranty unless I pay for it. However, I was fortunate that Chrysler adopted their extended program for all their used automobiles and couldn’t be biased from one model to the next. So I paid a little extra for an extended “discounted” warranty as they figure I’ll cash it in long before I have to use the warranty! Even though recalls are covered regardless the amount of owners, I still didn’t want to take any chances as diesel parts let alone other parts are expensive and the $1,380 dollars would simply seem like pennies at the rate the CRD is falling apart. I bought the used CRD at a reasonable price compared to what it cost new, and it was virtually in perfect condition. I’m guessing the previous owner(s) had it nicely kept and stored in the repair shop for most of it’s ownership at no charge. Shortly after I bought it, Jeep issued the F37 recall in which I just completed. To give you my honest opinion, I think if the recalls are not sufficiently fixing the problems (as Chrysler already knows), then the F37 recall will obviously be a failed attempt because it does not meet the manufactures obligations. Again, in my opinion as mentioned on other threads, Chrysler is probably holding us off offering us a “customer satisfaction“ until they can get us the real deal. I’m guessing a final recall or follow up customer satisfaction will be mandated even though you are out of warranty. Why? Because the initial recall was posted during your original warranty. My suggestion: If you have a recall and you neglect to have it fixed within the framework Chrysler recommends, then you could be asking for complications thus jeopardizing warranty extensions. The more CRD owners take the proper steps towards completing recalls, and the more of these recalls backfire; I believe the more evidence and pressure Chryslers faces to make a quicker response. The urgency to perform the F37 is to keep customer on the road. This is a problem on a much larger scale. As mentioned in other threads, Chrysler (we are guessing) simply does not have the necessary parts nor are they going to make any major changes until everything is worked out and parts are abundant. As far as I know, the 07 CRD’s are working pretty nicely and have received upgraded parts. So that’s where my hope lies. Now I will shut-up and not take so much thread space, SORRY!

GregScuba · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:49 am

Finally, something other than dooms-day theories and abysmal outlooks!

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:56 am

GregScuba wrote:

Finally, something other than dooms-day theories and abysmal outlooks!

I don't think that owners that are complaining or pointing out the inherent weakness of the tranny are saying "They Sky is Falling"...they have legitimate concerns over a weak link that could make the CRDs basically worthless with a non-working tranny.

All the hype about "DC" and "Diesel Power" that was in commercials in the latter part of 2006 have stopped being aired. Even the guy with the Moustache is gone. The "F37" , IMHO, is DC's feable attempt to get most owners past the original warranty period and sweep the CRD under the rug. If you don't think they know what would really fix the CRD tranny, then you are kidding yourself. They "KNOW" what it would take but feel that economically they can escape "cheaper" with this "Customer Satisfaction" method. They are banking on the fact that 11,000 US CRD owners will not make a big enough "stink" to make any difference. All you have to do is look at the "fix" of the Lower Ball Joint and see they would rather ride it out than fix it and that involves over 800,000 KJ Owners. How can you have LBJ problems in 2002-2003 and still have the exact same LBJ problems in 2006 on the same vehicle? When was the last, or first, time you saw a Car Maker take full resposibility for a fault and "fix" it without any litigation or pressure from outside sources. History tends to repeat itself...

GregScuba · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:07 am

Valid points as well Darby.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:42 am

Quote:

The only problem is they have to make sure they do the replacement by the F37 instructions, that calls for rattles or matelic sounds from the tranny or a code. If they replace the pump too soon before damage is done to the pump D/C will not pay the repair bill, the dealers are really in a catch 22 gray area. Just like my tranny, it sometimes shifts bad and clangs bad when stopped and shifting to park. However it is sporatic and is not making any of the rattling noise as required by F37 so my dealer is screwed, so we do the smart thing and put he complaint in the computer for documentation for future problems or failure.

The D/C bean counters seems to have this recall planned as a delaying action thinking that most will be out of warranty, or in the hands of second owner w/o warranty by the time the tranny suffers a total failure and/or they do a recall. If they do this "properly" they will not get the government involved and only have to do recalls on vehicles that fail while under warranty which with 06 models is only half the time for 05 models. I would say that 06 CRD owners are on thin ice when it comes to the repairs being done proper and under warranty before they run out the miles covered under warranty.

This is just my opinions, but I could be way off base and wrong.

I posted this in the other F37 thread about the problem of TC and pump.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:34 pm

They've been putting diesels in light duty pickup trucks for over 25 years now. The OEM's know what it takes to make an automatic transmission and torque converter work behind a diesel at stock power levels. That they didn't do what was required to make a reliable drivetrain in the CRD from the start of production says that profits overruled quality.

I've seen the same thing happen at Freightliner, a DC company, over the past few years. They tried redesigning some of the parts on the cab to save a few bucks per truck. But when these parts didn't hold up, the big fleet customers screamed bloody murder, and in many cases we've simply went back to using the original design parts. I've seen a rep for one of the large trucking fleets flat out reject delivery and payment on a fleet of 100 trucks sitting in the yard (at 150 grand per truck, that's some serious money) until the trucks were reworked to their satisfaction.

If it had been me deciding on the drivetrain, using a little knuckledragger Navy mechanic logic, I'd have suggested the following - "You already have a pretty reliable diesel drivetrain in the 47RE and 48RE trannys you put behind a Cummins in your Ram pickups. If it'll hold up behind a Cummins, it should be bulletproof behind this four banger at half the power and torque. And you'll have commonality, reduced parts inventory, as far as the drivetrain components between your diesel vehicle lines. Plus these trannys are already a known quantity with your dealers and mechanics, if a service tech knows how to service the tranny on a Cummins, he'll know how to do it on a CRD, you won't have to spend the time and money training them to service another tranny. And if you want to build a good rep for your diesels, other than this new engine, stick with what's proven and reliable on the rest of the vehicle - if you end up having serious problems with other parts of the vehicle, the diesel engine is going to get slammed just by association."

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:41 pm

The purpose of this thread was to give an optimistic point of view. But as Darby pointed out, there is still several valid reasons to be concerned. We can’t ignore that there is a huge problem and it seems to be building more and more out of control. Just to give you an example and to somewhat confirm what Darby wrote above concerning the value of our vehicle: A Jeep dealership that I talked to on the phone told me that they will not take the CRD as a trade in. That’s right, that same dealership that sold the CRD new are not and will not take them as a trade in. They said they are nothing but a headache and do not want to work on them either. I thought this was a poor attitude since they are a Jeep dealership and should take responsibility for their own vehicles. None the less, this is one example how our CRD’s are already being viewed. Those of you who are tired of fighting the battle and who do not want to gamble, this would be a good time to trade in your CRD before it’s too late! I have chosen to take the gamble and keep the CRD at this point in time. Therefore I have chosen to be optimistic and start a thread sharing some of my thoughts. This forum is wonderful in the fact it allows everyone to express their concerns and view the possible solutions to address these concerns. If Chrysler dumps me after my warranty with no further solutions as many of you are predicting, then I will be left out in the dark scraping up ideas to make the CRD work for me. If that is the case, then I have lost the gamble.

T^2 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:06 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

The purpose of this thread was to give an optimistic point of view. But as Darby pointed out, there is still several valid reasons to be concerned. We can’t ignore that there is a huge problem and it seems to be building more and more out of control. Just to give you an example and to somewhat confirm what Darby wrote above concerning the value of our vehicle: A Jeep dealership that I talked to on the phone told me that they will not take the CRD as a trade in. That’s right, that same dealership that sold the CRD new are not and will not take them as a trade in. They said they are nothing but a headache and do not want to work on them either. I thought this was a poor attitude since they are a Jeep dealership and should take responsibility for their own vehicles. None the less, this is one example how our CRD’s are already being viewed. Those of you who are tired of fighting the battle and who do not want to gamble, this would be a good time to trade in your CRD before it’s too late! I have chosen to take the gamble and keep the CRD at this point in time. Therefore I have chosen to be optimistic and start a thread sharing some of my thoughts. This forum is wonderful in the fact it allows everyone to express their concerns and view the possible solutions to address these concerns. If Chrysler dumps me after my warranty with no further solutions as many of you are predicting, then I will be left out in the dark scraping up ideas to make the CRD work for me. If that is the case, then I have L.O.S.T. the gamble.

More foder for a lawsuit...

DnA Diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:27 pm

It would be interesting to know how many of the 11,000 CRD owners would have actually taken a manual transmission if it had been a choice? I'm betting it would have been more than half, and if there are European CRD's with 6-speeds, I'd be looking at a trans Re&Re to manual as a reasonable fix. :wink:

I still like the Libby, my first Jeep and, while I was a little worried about the "Soccer Mom" image, more in the eyes of others, not me, I love it! Sure-footed, solid...I just drove through snow squalls and 15cm (6") of snow for an hour to get home yesterday and the CRD chugged through everything in full-time without even blinking. Nice!

Cheers
Duey

urchindog · **Joined:** Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:41 pm **Posts:** 30

Yes, thats true here as well, while mine was in for the f37 i tried to get a trade in price for mine....after several repeat calls to the salesman....no responce. This is a bad situation getting worse. the dealer in SC is Addy Jeep Chrysler

Kniggit · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:32 pm

I would have bought a manual, but my wife said no and then laughed when I said they weren't even available. I told her I would rather have saved the 2,000 for the auto and teach her how to drive a stick. She has already driven my Chevy Truck with a stick, she just lacks confidence.

K

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:38 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

A Jeep dealership that I talked to on the phone told me that they will not take the CRD as a trade in. That’s right, that same dealership that sold the CRD new are not and will not take them as a trade in. They said they are nothing but a headache and do not want to work on them either. I thought this was a poor attitude since they are a Jeep dealership and should take responsibility for their own vehicles.

This would be an interesting twist. This is starting to sound like a certain model of bus I used to sell. The next event will be finance sources not willing to fund them because owners develop a model-specific history of defaulting when they can't fix them and can't trade them. They quickly become "Buy-here, pay-here" specials on the $1000 lot.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:53 pm

If this stuff gets out to the general public, the backlash will cost DC much more than a proper fix.

........................................HEADLINES..........................................

DC leaves over 11,000 Jeep Liberty CRD Owners "OUT TO DRY"

In an attempt to cut (and run) costs, DC who owns the "Jeep" line of automobiles decides to abandon customers that purchased the first midsize Diesel SUV sold in America...The Jeep Liberty CRD. Jeep enthusiasts that took the "plunge" on this new entry in the SUV Market, are left soaking wet with a Transmission that was not designed to work with a Torque Developing Diesel. Although there are other bigger diesels on the market in the states (including the DC backed Dodge Cummins Diesel), DCJeep has decided to take the "low road" and abandon thier loyal customers. What will this mean for the new Grand Cherokee BlueTec Diesel coming in the near future? How confident will any new buyers be with DC's commitment toward honoring thier warranty if they "could not" or "will not" take care of 11,000 CRDs already sold and ignored? This does not look good for customer relations or future sales of DC vehicles. Only time will tell!

***Just a small sampling of possible "bad press" that DC can expect in the future***

DnA Diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:53 pm

Well, I'm in for the long haul with this one, luckily a 5/100 B2B extended warranty was part of the deal. I would like to see the TC/transmission issue fixed sooner rather than later, and although I don't think I should have to, I would use selected aftermarket pieces to make the vehicle more usable.

Duey

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:29 pm

I can name several car this sounds like that has come about due to poor planning. Edsel, Corvair, and a Toyota that was only made for one or two years a neighbor bought that had poor designed engine that could not make it past 20k miles w/o pucking its guts and with a tranny that wasn't much better. My friend and neighbor ended up letting the Toyota be a repo car and it ruined their credit for years, all because Toyota refused to repair/replace the second engine when it failed. I guess they decided the loss of one customer was not a big deal.

When I look back at the cars made that were crap and were not even wanted back by the dealers, I am not sure that any large mfg hasn't been guilty of that problem and did the same as D/C is doing now. The Toyota that a friend and neighbor had and a friend of my dad's that bought a Edsel are the two that were my experience, but I remember reading about others over the years. One has to remember they will even let people die if it the cost of repairs out weight the cost of law suits. GM trucks and Ford Pinto cars with their gas tanks come to mind here, took government and insurance company's to have a change brought about to those vehicles.

One current example is Ford Crown Vic when rear ended, they often have fuel tank failure and burn the occupents up in the cars and is a real problem for police agencies. This problem has not been fully addressed by Ford and is why Highway Patrol/ State Police agencies are swithching to the D/C LX cars, Dodge Magnum and Charger as they pass the high speed rear impact requested by these agencies and insurance company's even down to the point that the doors will open after 75 mph off center rear impact that simulates the common accident that Crown Vic's fail.

Edited for a PS: As far as bad press goes it never stopped GM, Ford, VW, Toyota or others when it comes to doing what is morally right vs what saves them the most money.

GMconvert · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:31 pm

I would have bought the manual transmission! At least it would make it feasible to do a tranny swap down the road if needed, since they are making manual CRDs for export.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I wanted a manual also. I shouldn't have settled for the Auto. It was the only choice though.

offroadsubaru · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:39 pm

RFCRD wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

A Jeep dealership that I talked to on the phone told me that they will not take the CRD as a trade in. That’s right, that same dealership that sold the CRD new are not and will not take them as a trade in. They said they are nothing but a headache and do not want to work on them either. I thought this was a poor attitude since they are a Jeep dealership and should take responsibility for their own vehicles.

This would be an interesting twist. This is starting to sound like a certain model of bus I used to sell. The next event will be finance sources not willing to fund them because owners develop a model-specific history of defaulting when they can't fix them and can't trade them. They quickly become "Buy-here, pay-here" specials on the $1000 lot.

I don't know about your respective areas of the country, but here in the Pacific Northwest, CRD prices are doing anything but cratering.

The cheapest CRD I can find on Autotrader within 300 miles is $22k. I give the number of (bio)diesel enthusiasts in Seattle & Portland & the surrounding areas credit.

Look down a few posts to "Short and Sweet" to see the add

Chrysler and the CRD Future

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