Dealership Screw Up, Please Advise.

tyree326 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:08 pm

Hey guys, I'm a newb here. Have a question. We have free lifetime oil changes at the dealership that I bought my '06 Liberty CRD at. We had the oil changed on our Liberty last Wednesday (3/4) and my wife has probably driven 600-700 miles since then and I noticed some oil on the garage floor when she left this morning so when she got home tonight, I checked the dipstick and noticed the reading was extremely low so I got under the Liberty and noticed the oil plug was completely missing!!!! I am furious and will be raising serious he<< tomorrow on the phone with this dealer!!! :evil:

Does anyone think I have engine damage at this point? How would I be able to tell? I have put in a call to the Director of Operations at that dealership and will call back tomorrow morning as the dealership had already closed. Should I also call DiamlerChrysler?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

erockskj · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:13 pm

Dang.... .your lucky she made it home :shock:

Give `em HELL in the morning and good luck.......erockskj

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:27 pm

First, have a nice cup of camomille tea to relax, then ease back out and recheck the dipstick, then the drain plug - no oil could possibly be showing on the dipstick if the plug had gone missing, plus the engine would have totally locked up due to lack of oil* - plus, ECM will have DTC'ed at some point for loss of oil pressure, storing various parameters, such as accumulative time interval for the trip, accumulated mileage for the trip, plus exact mileage at which oil pressure totally dropped - only a Starscan tool can read that data, then clear that data.

*Had the plug fallen out at the end of a short driveway, dumping the oil into your gutter, she could have made it to the garage with little or no engine damage, but ECM would still have logged the failure.

Post your findings.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

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tyree326 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:34 pm

gmctd wrote:

First, have a nice cup of camomille tea to relax, then ease back out and recheck the dipstick, then the drain plug - no oil could possibly be showing on the dipstick if the plug had gone missing, plus the engine would have totally locked up due to lack of oil* - plus, ECM will have DTC'ed at some point for loss of oil pressure, storing various parameters, such as accumulative time interval for the trip, accumulated mileage for the trip, plus exact mileage at which oil pressure totally dropped - only a Starscan tool can read that data, then clear that data.

*Had the plug fallen out at the end of a short driveway, dumping the oil into your gutter, she could have made it to the garage with little or no engine damage, but ECM would still have logged the failure.

Post your findings.

I rechecked the dipstick and did not see anything. She said she leaked oil where she parked today at work as well. She also mentioned that the motor was making some unusual noises today. Obviously this is the dealerships fault from where we took it in last Wednesday. We did not drive it all this past weekend and that is why we did not notice it sooner. I am just trying to figure out at what point the oil plug went missing. Surely she has not been able to drive 600+ miles with no oil without the engine seizing?? Will let you know what happens tomorrow. I will have the dealership tow it as to prevent any further damage than whats already been done.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:09 am

Agreed - best bet is to the dealer, as is with no restart attempt - let them analyze it - be interesting to hear their findings

And, BTW, welcome to the forum......................

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:38 am

Quote:

Don't worry, we've checked everything out and replaced your oil pan and plug, it should be fine now.

Should have driven it right over to the dealer and had the engine sieze in front of their prospective customers, this way you get a new engine, not something that "should" be fine.

mark2m · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:03 am

Oh man that sucks. I'm surprised you didn't get the low oil pressure light. I would think a new engine is in order.

tyree326 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:11 am

mark2m wrote:

Oh man that sucks. I'm surprised you didn't get the low oil pressure light. I would think a new engine is in order.

Called the Service Manager this morning and the first words out of his mouth were tow truck so it has been towed and is on its way to the dealer. Called him back again to ask what the plan was and he said they would be doing a leak down / compression test as well as inspecting the oil pan for metal shavings and running oil through it again to see if it is still picking up metal among other tests. So far they have been very pro-active. He is going to let me know about providing a loaner or rental car as well.

Surprisingly the low oil pressure light did not come on. I would think there would be some kind of idiot light that would indicate this. But as we all know, those lights do not usually come on until it's too late. I'll keep everyone updated.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:29 am

Running synthetic and the fact that some oil stays in the oil pan because of the shape...those things might have saved your engine...but I would get some kind of "special warranty" if everything checks out OK. Maybe the Lifetime Warranty for your CRD :wink:

panda-52 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:46 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

Running synthetic and the fact that some oil stays in the oil pan because of the shape...those things might have saved your engine...but I would get some kind of "special warranty" if everything checks out OK. Maybe the Lifetime Warranty for your CRD :wink:

Hopefully the free lifetime oil changes included use of synthetic oil, though most probably not Amsoil!!!

All kidding aside IMO this is one of the best reasons for the extra expense of a good synthetic oil, whatever brand.

tyree326 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:32 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

Running synthetic and the fact that some oil stays in the oil pan because of the shape...those things might have saved your engine...but I would get some kind of "special warranty" if everything checks out OK. Maybe the Lifetime Warranty for your CRD :wink:

Yea, let's hope they offer some kind of warranty extension if they do not end up replacing the motor. Otherwise this CRD is going up for sale. I haven't purchased any other extended warranty at this point.

wolcott · **Joined:** Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm **Posts:** 108

One additional thing you might want to have done is to pull the pan and check the bearings for any burning or overheating. Hopefully, the synthetic oil will have saved you from any problems like this. While pulling the pan is more work than checking for shavings, it is a much better way to evaluate any damage that might have occurred.

tyree326 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:54 pm

wolcott wrote:

One additional thing you might want to have done is to pull the pan and check the bearings for any burning or overheating. Hopefully, the synthetic oil will have saved you from any problems like this. While pulling the pan is more work than checking for shavings, it is a much better way to evaluate any damage that might have occurred.

I have some good news, a rep from VM Motori in Italy has contacted me directly to help out. He is saying that the the oil plugs and threads are metric and many dealers in the US have had problems with stripping the plugs. This could have very well happened to me as I have had all of the oil changes done at this dealer.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:05 pm

tyree326 wrote:

wolcott wrote:

One additional thing you might want to have done is to pull the pan and check the bearings for any burning or overheating. Hopefully, the synthetic oil will have saved you from any problems like this. While pulling the pan is more work than checking for shavings, it is a much better way to evaluate any damage that might have occurred.

I have some good news, a rep from VM Motori in Italy has contacted me directly to help out. He is saying that the the oil plugs and threads are metric and many dealers in the US have had problems with stripping the plugs. This could have very well happened to me as I have had all of the oil changes done at this dealer.

Yes stripped plugs are a problem.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:11 pm

From the KJ service manual page 9-1652

CONNECTING RODS
CAUTION: Connecting rod bolts must be replaced when disassembled. When assembling the connecting
rod (2), be sure that the connecting rod pawl (1) on each of the connecting rod caps is facing the rear (fly
wheel) side of the engine.
NOTE: Do Not lubricate the new connecting rod bolts. They are already coated with a anti scuff treatment.
1. Assemble connecting rod bearings (4) and bearing caps to their respective connecting rods (2) ensuring that the
serrations on the cap and reference marks are aligned.
2. Tighten connecting cap bolts to 10 N·m (88 in. lbs.).
3. Without loosening connecting rod bolts, tighten all bolts to 30N·m (22 ft.lbs.).
4. Using a torque angle gauge, tighten each bolt an additional 40°.
5. Recheck all bolt tightening with a torque wrench set to 88N·m (65 ft.lbs.).
6. Check and record internal diameter of crank end of connecting rod (2).
CAUTION: When changing connecting rods (2), DO NOT use a stamp to mark the cylinder location. Identify
the connecting rods (2) and caps location using a paint marker. All four must have the same weight and the
same number. Replacement connecting rods (2) will only be supplied in sets of four.
Connecting rods (2) are supplied in sets of four since they all must be of the same weight category. Max allowable
weight difference is 5 gr.

So if they pop the rod caps to check them, make them stick to the VM recommendation above. I had a rod bolt snap on a 354 Perkins at 65 MPH and it trashed the block!

Steve

naturist · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:05 am

It should be noted that this would be an instance of a slam-dunk in your favor if it ever went to court, and I'm sure that the dealer's folks know this as well, which would be why the surest way to minimize damage would be to make sure the customer (you) gets nothing but positive strokes.

At the worst, they'll be replacing the engine, and they know that already. If the engine was making noises as your wife reported, it is likely damage is already done. If they attempt to screw you over, the cost of the engine will be the smallest part of the final tab, and they know that, too. It sounds like they have the right attitude going, so perhaps you will be properly taken care of.

It is good PR for a VM Motori rep to contact you directly. And it does sound like the dealer is doing the honorable thing. Good for them, and for you.

Keep us appraised of the fall out.

tyree326 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:11 am

Sir Sam wrote:

tyree326 wrote:

wolcott wrote:

One additional thing you might want to have done is to pull the pan and check the bearings for any burning or overheating. Hopefully, the synthetic oil will have saved you from any problems like this. While pulling the pan is more work than checking for shavings, it is a much better way to evaluate any damage that might have occurred.

I have some good news, a rep from VM Motori in Italy has contacted me directly to help out. He is saying that the the oil plugs and threads are metric and many dealers in the US have had problems with stripping the plugs. This could have very well happened to me as I have had all of the oil changes done at this dealer.

Yes stripped plugs are a problem.

So apparently the oil plug was there the whole time but was missing the gasket so they replaced the oil plug with a new oil plug that they are now using due to the previous ones becoming stripped. Otherwise everything is ok with my Jeep. Only lost a little bit of oil. Does this make sense or was the dealer blowing smoke? I'm still a little confused on the matter. I assume because this new oil plug is much larger than the previous one.

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:52 am

If they stripped the plug the proper repair is to replace pan. (been there, done under warranty) The pan strips, not so much the plug, but the new pan comes with a new style plug

I don't understand the only lost a bit of oil, what did you see when you checked? I tend to believe what my eyes see over what a dealer tells me.

YOU said the oil plug was missing.........

tyree326 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am

cerich wrote:

If they stripped the plug the proper repair is to replace pan. (been there, done under warranty) The pan strips, not so much the plug, but the new pan comes with a new style plug

I don't understand the only lost a bit of oil, what did you see when you checked? I tend to believe what my eyes see over what a dealer tells me.

YOU said the oil plug was missing.........

I don't see anything on the dealer receipt/invoice for a replaced oil pan. Only "replaced oil drain plug and missing gasket". When I originally checked the dipstick, it just seemed like an extremely light coat of oil on it. When I got under neath the Jeep on Monday night after seeing oil on the garage floor, I was looking for a standard looking oil plug (remember this was the first time I had been under the Jeep since the dealer had been doing the maintenance and changing the oil under their free lifetime oil changes) so when I felt around the oil pan where the oil plug is located I saw a hole without a plug and could feel oil around it and threading. Apparently there was an oil plug there? The dealer showed me the old oil plug and it looked like a copper colored plug which required a metric alen wrench of sorts to remove? This may have been why I was thrown off. If anyone can please confirm what the old / original plugs look like or have pictures. The new plug that they put on looks like your run of the mill oil plug that you would find on any other car and use a standard wrench or socket wrench on. So chalk it up to either ignorance or being an alarmist.

Dealership Screw Up, Please Advise.

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