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 Post subject: $5 a gallon
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Well I finally saw it - $4.999 a gallon today for #2 in Brighton, MI. Close enough to call it $5 for me. Granted this particular station is normally 10-15 cents more than any others in town - the rest were between 4.79 - 4.89. I wonder if they'll resist actually putting up the 5 for long?

I keep a log of all my fuel usage for business purposes in my PDA. When I bought the little tractor last spring I paid 2.659 for the first fill up on March 28, 2007. Ahh the memories...

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:18 pm 
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Holy McCain, that's expensive!

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:19 am 
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Was listening to Glenn Beck on CNN HN the other night and he had T. Boone Pickens, the oil guy, on the show.

Pickens was saying that oil will be $150 a barrel by end of year and you better get used to $4 gas, and of course High $4 diesel, for the year. And prices lower than that are acient history.

I figure, since diesel always goes up in the fall, that we are going to have $5+ diesel for the later half of '08.

What a country!

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:18 am 
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So basically, we've come out of our little daydream and have joined the rest of the world in terms of fuel prices. With the weak dollar and the strong Euro, we're lucky we aren't paying higher prices than they do (and maybe that's coming).

- Chris

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:02 am 
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chrispitude wrote:
So basically, we've come out of our little daydream and have joined the rest of the world in terms of fuel prices. With the weak dollar and the strong Euro, we're lucky we aren't paying higher prices than they do (and maybe that's coming).

- Chris


I think it was Glenn Beck saying that the dirty little secret on rising fuel is that our fuel is rising at a much greater percentage than europe. So the prices increase are passed more on to the US than the rest of of the world. I see this as a way for the rest of the world to drag down our standard of living. The Oboma says that we we should feel bad about setting our thermostats at 72 and driving SUV's because that might offend the rest of the world! We slowly and surely are being dragged down.

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:32 am 
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Well - it's more that the rest of the world wants to live like we do - and the real impact is that India and China are starting to have personal cars - they've never had that before.

The real question is that supply and demand will always balance at a stable price - as demand has increased - why hasn't there been an increase in supply? - normally there is - the OPEC and independents start pumping more to make more money - it's not happening. The oil out there isn't in the big pockets - it's in small fields - so a lot more exploration to find smaller paybacks.

so demand is increasing - supply isn't - the variable that balances is price.

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 Post subject: NY
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:49 am 
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I saw diesel range from the high 4s to $5.25 on my drive through upstate NY yesterday.

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:24 pm 
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I was fly fishing on the Au Sable river in NY State near Lake Placid this week and saw $ 4.96/gal vs 4.01 for RUG. Both are nuts, but the spread is staying about the same regardless of actual price.

Again, its not Jetta TDI levels, but with my 25mpg vs the 17 I would get in a gas SUV I am still ahead.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:42 pm 
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$4.69 here in the state where NOTHING is allowed...
It's been rising .10 per day.
Save up your grape jelly and peanut butter boy's and girls the crash is soon coming.
With great peaks come even deeper valleys.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:26 pm 
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This is all a mixed bag that I am not so sure is not got some good things about it.

This is an election year. Maybe, just maybe, a large enough percentage of the electorate will finally get the idea that what has been the standard for 50 years needs to be done away with. There are a number of third party candidates that have gotten the message. Both the Libertarian and Constitution parties have fielded pretty good candidates that realize that there has to be some sense thrown into the mix. Like more drilling, more refineries, coal to fuel, etc. Albeit in an environmentally sound way.

Not totally optimistic, but trying to keep hope alive that this just might be the year of the third party runs. The election is a long way off, as far as political winds go. So there is still time.

But then, I am probably living in fantasy land!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Location: Colorado Baby!
$5.15 in socal.

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 Post subject: $4.89 to $4.99 here in Western Chicago Suburbs
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:40 pm 
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I saw it at $4.69 in Northern New Jersey around Newark.

Reminds me of a sign I saw years ago, "Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way!" Since our Federal Government can't do the first two in respect to our energy needs the only option is for them to follow the third option. and Get Out of the Way.
This is what the Oil Company Execs told the Senate and House this week.
The oil companies have the knowledge, technology, and desire to drill for oil responsibly and the Government is not lacking any laws on the books or the human resources to enforce responsible oil drilling.
They need to GET OUT OF THE WAY.

Steve

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:37 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
vote a bought-and-paid-for president into office, and big surprise... He delivered on his promises to those largest contributors: big oil.

They do have the money and technology to go get more or build more refineries... But desire? NOT A BIT!

If you were the only provider of concrete for all the construction jobs, would you want ANY investment in other building materials? No, that would reduce your market share and your profits.

How about finding new sources for raw materials? Not really, if your current sources were stable enough, and right on the edge of meeting the demand - more supply would lower your profits, even if it came from your existing sources.

What about building another plant to combine the materials and bag them up for sale? Again, more supply on the market would lower your profits. Better to dial-back the plant output and watch the numbers spin faster.


Are we starting to see the fallacy in letting the chickens run the henhouse instead of the omelet chefs? If the producers get to determine everything (almost what we have now, but absolutely if there is LESS government oversight in the future) then what is to stop them from pulling exactly what the arabs have been doing for 30+ years? Control the supply, you control the prices.

GWB said he "would protect our oil prices" when he was running in 2000. What didn't get copied onto the news wire is the end of that sentence: "for the oil company profits" that we are now seeing was his real statement.

I predicted back in January that since this was the last summer that the oil companies were going to have at the kitty before GWB and his bunch got finally tossed out, look for a MASSIVE run-up in prices. Only problem was, I couldn't have imagined that they were going to push this to a VERY REAL POSSIBILITY of $6 diesel and $5 unleaded. That would have been a full-on doubling of where we were in January.

Obviously I was wrong in estimating the levels of avarice that the oil industry could contain. I wonder how long it will take before it is discovered that much of the "trader" activity driving the commodity market is paid for by big oil themselves.

It might take quite a while, b/c one of the lasting gifts that Enron managed to get done before it died was lobbying for the removal of much of the oversight on energy trading. Seems they didn't like the idea of being watched by regulators while they manipulated their own futures market. And that removal created so many "opportunities for commerce" in the California power market didn't it?

Yea. What we need is less government regulation. The industry will just naturally do the right thing, because they are such honest non-profit-driven individuals.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:51 pm 
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geordi wrote:
vote a bought-and-paid-for president into office, and big surprise... He delivered on his promises to those largest contributors: big oil.

They do have the money and technology to go get more or build more refineries... But desire? NOT A BIT!

If you were the only provider of concrete for all the construction jobs, would you want ANY investment in other building materials? No, that would reduce your market share and your profits.

How about finding new sources for raw materials? Not really, if your current sources were stable enough, and right on the edge of meeting the demand - more supply would lower your profits, even if it came from your existing sources.

What about building another plant to combine the materials and bag them up for sale? Again, more supply on the market would lower your profits. Better to dial-back the plant output and watch the numbers spin faster.


Are we starting to see the fallacy in letting the chickens run the henhouse instead of the omelet chefs? If the producers get to determine everything (almost what we have now, but absolutely if there is LESS government oversight in the future) then what is to stop them from pulling exactly what the arabs have been doing for 30+ years? Control the supply, you control the prices.

GWB said he "would protect our oil prices" when he was running in 2000. What didn't get copied onto the news wire is the end of that sentence: "for the oil company profits" that we are now seeing was his real statement.

I predicted back in January that since this was the last summer that the oil companies were going to have at the kitty before GWB and his bunch got finally tossed out, look for a MASSIVE run-up in prices. Only problem was, I couldn't have imagined that they were going to push this to a VERY REAL POSSIBILITY of $6 diesel and $5 unleaded. That would have been a full-on doubling of where we were in January.

Obviously I was wrong in estimating the levels of avarice that the oil industry could contain. I wonder how long it will take before it is discovered that much of the "trader" activity driving the commodity market is paid for by big oil themselves.

It might take quite a while, b/c one of the lasting gifts that Enron managed to get done before it died was lobbying for the removal of much of the oversight on energy trading. Seems they didn't like the idea of being watched by regulators while they manipulated their own futures market. And that removal created so many "opportunities for commerce" in the California power market didn't it?

Yea. What we need is less government regulation. The industry will just naturally do the right thing, because they are such honest non-profit-driven individuals.


Exactly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:17 pm 
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For sake of argument, lets say Bush is bought and paid for by the oil companies. Don't the Dems have a majority in both the house and senate now? What have they done to fix the situation? I'm with Cowpie, it is time to look outside the two party system.

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 Post subject: Big companies hedge their bets and write two checks.....
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:18 pm 
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.......and some Bean Counter bashing.
When Bill Gates did not write two checks to both Clinton or Dole, Clinton had Janet Reno burn him and Microsoft had to spend a bunch of money. Thinking that Lame Duck GWB has any more vested interests in Big Oil than his Political Opponents is laughable, Gore's family and other big political families got rich off investing in big oil too. I would bet my last bottle of Gunnies that Vanguard has some of my 401K invested in Oil.

Political finger pointing is basically a waste of time and who cares any more, it won't bring down the price at the pump, the only thing that will bring the price down is more Oil supply and more competition from other sources.

Like any commodity when the supply is short the price goes up and suppliers like OPEC get greedy.

But, lets look at the situation such as a Cold Hearted Bean Counter who would slit his own mother's throat to save or make a buck:

Oil costs $150 a barrel at the dock at Saudi Arabia or Venezuela, but you can drill and pump it for $50 a barrel at a new well in North Dakota, What would this bean counter do? DRILL :!: Even if he has to do it responsibly :!:

As the Bean Counter is honing his knife to cut costs, at first he see the light and lets logic influence the decision and this works for a while. Later on he pulls out his knife and starts honing it again and then he gets greedy and drills more wells until the price starts to drop, when it drops to $100 a barrel at the docks over seas is he going to cry, hell no, he will keep drilling wells and start laying off secretaries and closing marginal stations to cut costs.

So, why can't the greedy cold hearted bean counter drill and eventually bring down the price of fuel at the pump?
We have in addition to our Government Idiots, Idiots who file law suits to stop oil drilling, stop nuclear power, stop wind power, stop solar panels on residential roofs, stop hydro-electric dams because some fish may swim up from the ocean and spawn above the tree line at 10,000 feet. Why do these Wacko Lawyers who could not get a job reviewing garbage hauling contracts for municipalities do what they do? Their fellow Lawyers, the Government including Federal, State, County, and Local along with the public have not run them out of town and backed politicians who have the guts and desire to put this obstruction practice to an end.

As much as I want technology to progress and come up with new energy sources, we can drill or watch our economy die and enter a new era of Dark Ages.

Steve

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:55 pm 
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By the time US decides to drill, oil will be worthless! Such a mistake, they think we can be the next arabia or venezuella. No, we won't be. Again by that time there will be enough alternatives.

I just can't believe US public is taking this huge increase sitting down without any protest, or any action. I wonder if government is testing the public. Where are the activists? Keep silence and they will keep stepping on us. Government just knows how to invade defenseless countries to take advantage of who knows what, but when it comes to pressuring other countries to regulate their oil distribution or their drills, it results in zilch.

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 Post subject: We are drilling in North Dakota and ....
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:27 pm 
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.....Canada is doing the same on their side of the border. Both are doing so and using responsible oil drilling practices. With oil at $150 a barrel I am sure that there will be more drilling. Logistics along with the Legal crap will be the two biggest problems. Pipelines don't install them selves, the existing rail roads can't handle it all and hauling by truck would be expensive.
Responsible angle drilling at ANWR where they are restricted to the area about the size of Chicago Midway Airport (4 square miles) would be a solution that would come on line sooner. One of the Problems is Illinois Senator Richard Durbin who puts the 4 square miles of land needed in AMWR ahead of the jobs and livelihood voters and their families.
To put it bluntly, Richard Durbin will never get my vote and I will support his opponent.



Links to North Dakota Oil: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... /18/ndoil/
https://www.dmr.nd.gov/oilgas/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/us/01dakota.html
http://gswindell.com/horizogj.htm
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/01/business/oil.php
http://www.topix.com/forum/state/nd/TKDNO2TEH8J8N62HA
Canada side: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz= ... an&spell=1
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz= ... ba&spell=1

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Last edited by warp2diesel on Sat May 24, 2008 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Here is my fuel rant for the day:

One of the things that gets me is how hard it has been to get a house made that does not suck power off a grid and is actually energy efficient. It is only now becoming feasible economically for your average person. When I was looking for a house set up that was solar powered or earth ram construction-- I found that getting a mortgage or a building and occupancy permit was impossible. More miles of government red tape. You had to have the cash up front. Well, I was in college, so that was a no go. I still want something similar to this:

http://www.earthship.net/

Maybe not quite that far out there. This needs no heating or cooling. If every new house was built with half the energy saving devices this house has, the energy problem would be close to solved. Look at the amount spent making electricity at some mega plant where it is then pushed thousands or hundreds of miles to your house. How much of the energy produced actually reaches the final destination? Somewhere around 25%. So some idiot hooks his electric car up the outlet and thinks he is saving the environment. Just how is that? His old internal combustion engined car is more efficient. Slightly more air pollution, but much more efficient at what it did. Now he has all those batteries to dispose of. Those were not easy to make either and he gets to carry them everywhere he goes. That is hardly efficient.

So not only are we wasting 75% of our fuel pushing electrons across the United States, but to make matters worse all of our new electronic appliances are DC-- so every one of them has an AC to DC inverter which wastes power by turning it into heat-- while converting only a percentage of it to DC so the computer/fax/tv/whatever can run. Then the air conditioner or heat pump runs to move that heat out of the house. Those inverters have the nasty habit of always putting out heat, even when the devices hooked to them are off.

It is like someone got together and decided--- "Hey, how can we F#$#k our energy customers into using the most oil and gas products?"

And I think that is pretty much what they have done for a couple centuries-- collusion.

Having said that, I don't think the government ever has been or ever will be a solution to the economy or an energy crisis. Hell, they are the ones the corporations have been colluding with. Do you think any of them are going to turn on their buddies who put money in their pockets?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:51 pm 
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And to think this used to be a KJ CRD site. $5 diesel... oh the horror. You all need a tissue.

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