trans shudder may be transfer case shudder

rgill · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:21 pm

2006 crd with an inmotion tune.

After two TCs with no change in the bad shudder I get at 55 to 65 mph, I took my 2006 crd to the dealer. Their mechanic said there was no indication that the trans is the problem. Computer said the TC was doing functioning perfectly. The mechanic, suggests and is "quite sure" that the problem is in the transfer case. He found a lot of metal in the oil and said the shudder is from the slip clutch in the selectrac unit. They want about $1800 to replace it. Factory unit is not available in short order but rebuilds are out there no problem. The shudder is present with any selection but does seem to be worse in 2wd or full time.

Anyone else have this experience? If this is true, I wasted a lot of money jumping to the trans as the shudder problem. I've had some suggestions (like from James at InMotion) that the shudder is from the need for a fuel tank booster pump but it does not seem like a starved engine and the dealer mechanic didn't even go there.

I will appreciate any feedback you all may have. If I wanted a toy to keep dumping money into, I would buy another boat, but I like the truck and want to keep it until some part beaks that isn't available.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:51 pm

Dealers have to tote the Company line, even if it is wrong.
That is why they don't endorse the lift pump and give the weak arguments cooked up by Bean Counter Engineers, simple.
Check for air in the fuel as posted many times. Pump up the primer and crack the bleeder, air shoots out, you have an air leak, simple.
Sorry but I can't buy a transfer case as a cause of shudder.
James from InMotion had his own shop for many years and still gets his hands dirty between doing ECM flashes, he knows his stuff and can smell a bad diagnosis.
If your dealer replaced the TC with out, testing, fixing, or replacing the front pump, I would never go back and find another place to do the work if you can't do it your self. Most of us who do our own work do not have access to the transmission gauges the dealers are supposed to have and are better off just putting in a full Transgo kit and fixing the front pump problem for good. Others like to try their luck and just replace the converter hoping the pump is OK. When I put my Transgoi fix in the front pump, it was OK, but I am glad I did not take the chance.
Again, I do not Gamble.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:55 pm

Does the shudder happen when you lay into the throttle at 55 or when you accelerate up to that speed and let off?

If it's while accelerating, that would suggest something in the driveline. If it's when you let off, that would seem like air in fuel. When was your last fuel filter change?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:57 pm

lots of folks here have had trans shutter.
no one has replaced a transfer case.
most have replace torque converters

(a couple have had some Dr tranny?? stuff - that they squeeze a tube or 2 in and it works)

air in fuel is a real problem - but it leaves air bubbles in the head.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:59 am

In the early years of the CRD's in the US two similiar situations that gave about the same symptom.

I had both but the worst was the air in fuel from day one when I was driving home from the dealer. Eccelerating to around 55 then letting off enough to maintain that speed is when both usually occure :juggle:

I have the new torque converter, front pump, thanks to my extended warranty, and a intank lift pump.

I too have never heard of a transfer case causing the problem :goink:

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:20 pm

Rgill,
I just looked in the FSM (shop manual) and there is no stinkin' clutch.
You should have a NV242 transfer case, not a selectrac.
Sounds like it's time for a new mechanic, one that can read the little tag on the back of the transfer case.
From what I see, and I have been in many transfer cases, but not this one (yet), there is always a direct connection through the unit except in neutral. No clutches.

One could always do a little test, like chain the back of the CRD to a light pole, put it in 2WD, and nail it. If the rear tires light up, it looks like the supposed clutches in the transfer case are working just fine.

Time for a different repair shop.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:56 pm

"Shudder" under slight to moderate acceleration with an IM SII between 53-57 MPH is the TC. Unless you had the most recent TC installed by a dealer within the last year, you don't have the "euro" TC. (Even then, you might not and there's absolutely NO way to tell now. The only way to know for SURE is to check the numbers on the MOPAR BOX it came in! The stickers, etc. on the converter are useless!) The vast majority of folks here have solved this problem (me included) with JUST the "euro" TC install which has stronger springs. If the TC seal is not leakng, there should be no problem with just doing the TC. Replacing the seal means a new pump and much more $$$. Additional mods may be OK, but I am not convinced they are either necessary or actually help. Since we are still under a factory extended warranty, I wanted to avoid adding any reasons for the dealer to void the warranty if, for example, the trans failed and 20K later nothing has occurred to change my mind on this.

Keith at GDE has been flogging his two CRDs with the euro TC installed for tens of thousands of miles towing over 5K pounds with no problems. We have 15K towing a 5K trailer with no probs.

DOC

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:00 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

Rgill,
I just looked in the FSM (shop manual) and there is no stinkin' clutch.
You should have a NV242 transfer case, not a selectrac.
Sounds like it's time for a new mechanic, one that can read the little tag on the back of the transfer case.
From what I see, and I have been in many transfer cases, but not this one (yet), there is always a direct connection through the unit except in neutral. No clutches.

One could always do a little test, like chain the back of the CRD to a light pole, put it in 2WD, and nail it. If the rear tires light up, it looks like the supposed clutches in the transfer case are working just fine.

Time for a different repair shop.

The 242 t-case is the select trac t-case,no clutches but does have a center diff to allow the full time option.The t-case your thinking about is the 247 or 249 t-cases.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:04 pm

I don't know about that test Tim... Our little tractors might have just the torque to pull the light pole down!

I'm with everyone else tho - We don't HAVE the Selec-Trac transfer case system, that is on the Grand Cherokees. Tim has more experience than I do on this, I would have said (based on my own probably-wrong dealer droids) that the case completely disconnects the front when in 2WD, and has a fluid coupling when in 4WD-FullTime.

Part-Time 4WD and 4-Lo are both fully mechanically locked - no clutches there. If you screw up the shift between them, you can hear it banging on the gears. Don't do that, its bad for it.

As far as "flogging" the CRD... I've asked mine to pull a 7k lb generator and a 7k lb enclosed box trailer at 65mph, and it has done it just fine - no shudder. I have a new TC from an independent shop who builds them all day long, they confirmed that there isn't any plastic inside the one I have.
I also have an external lift-pump by the tank (search on Mr. Gasket pump) and don't have any air-in-fuel issues either.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:09 pm

geordi wrote:

I don't know about that test Tim... Our little tractors might have just the torque to pull the light pole down!

I'm with everyone else tho - We don't HAVE the Selec-Trac transfer case system, that is on the Grand Cherokees. Tim has more experience than I do on this, I would have said (based on my own probably-wrong dealer droids) that the case completely disconnects the front when in 2WD, and has a fluid coupling when in 4WD-FullTime.

Part-Time 4WD and 4-Lo are both fully mechanically locked - no clutches there. If you screw up the shift between them, you can hear it banging on the gears. Don't do that, its bad for it.

As far as "flogging" the CRD... I've asked mine to pull a 7k lb generator and a 7k lb enclosed box trailer at 65mph, and it has done it just fine - no shudder. I have a new TC from an independent shop who builds them all day long, they confirmed that there isn't any plastic inside the one I have.
I also have an external lift-pump by the tank (search on Mr. Gasket pump) and don't have any air-in-fuel issues either.

You have the select trac t-case in your CRD,every US CRD has the select trac t-case.

READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look it up yourself......................

http://www.berrysprinter.com/jeepparts.php

The QuadraTrac(II) and QuadraDrive(II) have the friction based t-cases(247's and 249's and others).

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:59 pm

The advertising name for the NV242 is Select track
the NV241/231's are Command track
and Nv245/247/249's - are Quadra something or another

NV's are New Venture which used to be Np New Process - but is now part of Magna powertrain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Venture_Gear

they have a nomenclature chart - but it won't hold the format

rgill · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:21 am

All

Thanks for the comments/discussion. Couple things on my 72000 mile CRD.

First, I misspoke when I used the word "clutch" in the transfer case. I meant the viscous coupler in the transfer that allows "full time" 4wd (according to the dealer mechanic). This transfer case was called Selecttrac in the service manual because of the full time option, and I believe is the 242 from searching the web for a replacement. Actually, the dealer didn't refer to it as anything in particular.

Their trans guy just is focused on the transfer case as the cause of the shudder because the trans checked out OK on the computer and he found a lot of metal shavings in the transfer case.

It was another trans shop (not the dealer) that put in a Precision TC, then on his own ordered in and put in a Suncoast when the shudder remained. He then put back the Precision TC because it was less expensive. No dealer replacement or Euro TC. He also put in a Transco kit and a pump. All resulting in little or no change in the shudder problem. I went back to the dealer simply because I wanted someone else to look at it. The independent shop was good enough to try to stand behind their work, even offering to put in another trans (rebuilt of course). Of course I was not there when any of this took place, so I am relying on the independent trans shop's verbal report (and the extensive and costly invoice).

The shudder occurs when accelerating after 50 or 55 but not so hard as to cause a downshift. I can get the truck shaking if I don't back off or downshift. Shudder goes away when the trans downshifts. For at least the last 25000 miles I get a metal to metal grinding noise once in a while that I haven't tracked down. At first thought it might be the turbo but if it had been, the turbo would have disintegrated long before. The metal in the transfer case makes me think the noise might be coming from there and so am considering the shudder might be at least partly there.

Very perplexing and expensive problem. The most irritating thing about anything going wrong on the CRD is that Chrysler (not necessarily the independent dealers) is an awful company who used the bankruptcy to get out of the requirement of providing ten years of parts support for their vehicles. We who own Liberty CRDs have to face the fact that we may have to park the truck if even one simple part can't be found. Chrysler execs were ahead of the game trying to push the diesel market but then folded without any integrity at all when the economy tanked IMO.

I appreciate the comments and help. If I decide to switch out the transfer case, I'll let the LOST list know if if helps at all.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:08 am

rgill wrote:

All

Thanks for the comments/discussion. Couple things on my 72000 mile CRD.

First, I misspoke when I used the word "clutch" in the transfer case. I meant the viscous coupler in the transfer that allows "full time" 4wd (according to the dealer mechanic). This transfer case was called Selecttrac in the service manual because of the full time option, and I believe is the 242 from searching the web for a replacement. Actually, the dealer didn't refer to it as anything in particular.

Their trans guy just is focused on the transfer case as the cause of the shudder because the trans checked out OK on the computer and he found a lot of metal shavings in the transfer case.

It was another trans shop (not the dealer) that put in a Precision TC, then on his own ordered in and put in a Suncoast when the shudder remained. He then put back the Precision TC because it was less expensive. No dealer replacement or Euro TC. He also put in a Transco kit and a pump. All resulting in little or no change in the shudder problem. I went back to the dealer simply because I wanted someone else to look at it. The independent shop was good enough to try to stand behind their work, even offering to put in another trans (rebuilt of course). Of course I was not there when any of this took place, so I am relying on the independent trans shop's verbal report (and the extensive and costly invoice).

The shudder occurs when accelerating after 50 or 55 but not so hard as to cause a downshift. I can get the truck shaking if I don't back off or downshift. Shudder goes away when the trans downshifts. For at least the last 25000 miles I get a metal to metal grinding noise once in a while that I haven't tracked down. At first thought it might be the turbo but if it had been, the turbo would have disintegrated long before. The metal in the transfer case makes me think the noise might be coming from there and so am considering the shudder might be at least partly there.

Very perplexing and expensive problem. The most irritating thing about anything going wrong on the CRD is that Chrysler (not necessarily the independent dealers) is an awful company who used the bankruptcy to get out of the requirement of providing ten years of parts support for their vehicles. We who own Liberty CRDs have to face the fact that we may have to park the truck if even one simple part can't be found. Chrysler execs were ahead of the game trying to push the diesel market but then folded without any integrity at all when the economy tanked IMO.

I appreciate the comments and help. If I decide to switch out the transfer case, I'll let the LOST list know if if helps at all.

You do not have a viscuos coupler in your t-case,no clutches either,you have what is more closely a center diff like your F/R diffs that can be mechanically locked(part time and low range).You will not get a shudder from your t-case as there is nothing in it to cause a shudder.

There are many other things that can though like your rear driveshaft u-joints,front driveshaft CV joints,and no one has though that a bad harmonic balancer maybe the culprit also(had a few on gassers).

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:57 am

How long ago was your Sun Coast tc installed? The reason I'm asking is they later updated the springs, the same springs that are the only difference between the old and new "euro" Chrysler tc's, in their units :SOMBRERO:

For what ever reason some Sun Coast converters have shuddered too :shock:

Warp will tell you it's a valve in the pump but you indicate you have a new pump.
He'll also tell you it's the WRONG fluid and I whole heartedly agree :BINGO:

Question your trans shop about exactly what they put in. There's no universal fluid they can put an addative in and make it compatable :banghead:

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:55 am

First of all... you mean there are people who actually don't know that we've got the Selec-Trac t-case?? :shock:

Second.. I agree that it's not the t-case. It's your torque converter, U-joints, CV joints in the front driveline, or a wheel out of balance.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:07 am

rgill,

You have the "classic" CRD "shudder" caused by not having strong enough springs in the TC to handle the torque when it tries to lock at 55-58 MPH in top gear. Backing off or applying enough power to cause a downshift or manually downshifting will all make the "shudder" stop.

Either you "drive around" the problem or install a TC that has adequate springs ("euro" TC or latest version of Suncoast with the "euro" springs). (Or, go back to "stock" power ,or go with a GDE "ECO" that cleverly cuts power just at the critical point where shudder occurs, then resumes full power when locking has been fully completed.)

DOC

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:39 am

LibertyCRD wrote:

First of all... you mean there are people who actually don't know that we've got the Selec-Trac t-case?? :shock:

YES, look at their post counts and you'll know why :ROTFL:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

First of all... you mean there are people who actually don't know that we've got the Selec-Trac t-case?? :shock:

YES, look at their post counts and you'll know why :ROTFL:

You mean there are people who still call it a select-trac transfer case instead of a NV242 or a NP242?

dkenny · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:07 am

call me a fool..
but in reading the manual for my wife's jeep.
some strange terms were used..at least to me..I own 2 Dodge 4x4 pickups..1999 and 2000..2wheel abs only
4x4 part time
4x4 full time

huh??

let me see..pull that lever into 4x4 Hi..why have 2 different levels???
from my limited understanding..the transfer case, at least in my pickup don't have a differential, does the jeep?
I'm not quite sure why it would...lock the front and rear feeds to the diff together..let the axle determine which wheel doesn't slip..if the system is using ABS to control slip..then no locker is needed nor an anti-slip..front or rear.
hum sound good to m..so why 4x4 part time and 4x4 full time??
something just occurred. to me the Jeep doesn't have a CAD in the front...hum would this matter? the front in the jeep isn't a limited slip or a locker.
so the only difference in the Tcase? why?
why? have a slip front to rear? do either ends have lockers?

does the tcase act like a limited slip?

sorry lots of questions..
just wondering why the 2 mode of 4x4 high?
to me lock the front and rear..let the axles figure out the rest..
-dkenny

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:52 am

Sir Sam wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

First of all... you mean there are people who actually don't know that we've got the Selec-Trac t-case?? :shock:

YES, look at their post counts and you'll know why :ROTFL:

You mean there are people who still call it a select-trac transfer case instead of a NV242 or a NP242?

Numbers are confusing for people. Names are not. Since the 242 is the ONLY t-case given the Selec-Trac name in the Liberty...why not call it what it is? Besides, most Jeeps actually had the name stamped on the t-case shifter.

trans shudder may be transfer case shudder

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