Is there a correlation - Provent runners and RMS failure?

Glend · **Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:56 am

With my Rear Main Seal now showing signs of weeping oil at the adaptor and engine joint, I am wondering about the effects of Provents on crancase pressures. Are rear main seals more likely to leak in KJs running Provents and the associated tubing? Is there any evidence that Provents increase crankcase pressures? Yes Provents have pop off valving but is the treashold too high for our engines? In my own case when I open the drain valve to allow the Provent oil to flow out I am getting a whoosh of gas, is this not a sign of overpressurisation?

Will switching to EHM equalise crankcase pressure to atmo and prolong RMS life?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:24 am

Provent has a relief valve, so it will slobber all over the top before blowing the rear seal.
Kinda like big butts in jeans, the butt is not increased by the jeans, just by eating too much.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:25 am

I can't answer your question about the provent contributing to the leaking

But since I've been a member here there has always been rear main seals leaking and some even after several replacements still leak :furious:

I would consider "weeping" normal for our CRD's and on a posative side it keeps the seal well lubricated.
When the dealer replaced my TC and front pump I told them if they find the RMS leaking to not bother with it and consider it "normal" :jester:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:30 pm

Often what is suspected to be a rear main seal leak is oil running down the back of the engine from the :banghead:

PUCK on the top of the valve cover. Oil runs down into the top of the bell housing and wets the joint between the engine and bell housing. Mine pulled that stunt and when I put in my SunCoast, the rear main seal was dry and there as black oil in the bell housing. Since dealers get paid for warranty after they follow the guide set up by Chrysler, they will not pass up an opportunity to get paid when they find the rear main seal dry after dropping the transmission, it will leak and they will get paid.
It is like the Hospital that runs all the tests for cancer and the tests say you got it. They open you up and they find something like a big bunch of Yeast or Fibroid Tumor (like my Mom had) that can make you feel just as sick, they are going to pull out the crap, clean you up and tell you they got it and after more lab tests, tell you it is non malignant. Your glad you got rid of it and can get on with your life.
Just like the Hospital, the dealer will find another leak like the :banghead:

PUCK on the top of the engine, fix it too and your happy. Same thing, just your CRD instead of your life.

With all due respect to HI-JACK, I just want to make a point of misdiagnosis, it happens.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:50 am

Saterday I changed the oil on my CRD. I have been noticing oil on the garage floor and oil and vapor residue in the clear sction of hose I had between the provent and where it goes back into the intake. I pulled the MAP sensor and found it oil soaked but otherwise clean. So I can only surmise the element in the provent froze up and burped oil out the relif valve :frankie:

So the provent is back on the shelf again :cry:

So to answer your questionn. MAYBE :dizzy:

RJM · **Posted:** Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:18 am

In a cold climate, I would not use the Provent. I removed mine because both the filter element and PRV would freeeze up.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:29 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Saterday I changed the oil on my CRD. I have been noticing oil on the garage floor and oil and vapor residue in the clear sction of hose I had between the provent and where it goes back into the intake. I pulled the MAP sensor and found it oil soaked but otherwise clean. So I can only surmise the element in the provent froze up and burped oil out the relif valve :frankie:

So the provent is back on the shelf again :cry:

So to answer your questionn. MAYBE :dizzy:

I made my oil separator based upon the TDI GUY design and put it next to the radiator tank. So far I have not had the freeze up like some are having with the Provent. Anyone insulate their Provent to keep it warm? Urethane foam like what is used for pipe insulation should do the trick. Just a thought.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:34 am

Had a moderate RMS leak since purchase @ 17K miles. I waited to have warranty repair until the TC dilemma was clearer. EHM seemed to significantly reduce rate of oil loss. Since RMS repair and euro TC install (no extra charge when dealer did warranty repair of RMS), there has been no sign of RMS leakage for 45K miles (all with GDE ECU and EHM in place). So, I can't comment on Provent contributing to a RMS leak, but I am convinced the stock CCV system does. Our 45K miles after RMS repair without any sign (fingers crossed) of the leak returning makes me believe that EHM really works to protect the RMS from blowing out.

DOC

mackruss · **Posted:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:06 am

Well i removed my EHM the other day as the hose had become so soft from the oil and vapour that it popped off the CVC puck and started spewing oil on the tappet cover. Gone back to stock for the time being, prolly feeling a bit guilty about the enviroment and spray painting those behind me.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:21 am

Sounds like you used heater hose. Use hydraulic return line hose, it will not rot like heater hose.

Even though I rarely agree with Doc, the :banghead:

PUCK on top of the valve cover is the weak point of the CCV system that can plug up and build up excess pressure. Like the crappy puck oil separators the TDIs use (ours is a copy) it is a lousy BEAN COUNTER ENGINEERED DESIGN.

Guess it is time to do some GEAR HEAD ENGINEERING and make a new puck.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:00 am

mackruss wrote:

Well i removed my EHM the other day as the hose had become so soft from the oil and vapour that it popped off the CVC puck and started spewing oil on the tappet cover. Gone back to stock for the time being, prolly feeling a bit guilty about the enviroment and spray painting those behind me.

Did you use 3/4" hose :?:

If so that's your problem. The original hose is metric and it's closer to 11/16" :mrgreen:

One of the heater hoses on a XJ is 11/16" and that's what I used and there is/was no swelling or leakage :jester:

I once owned a 1996 Passat TDI and the puck, yes it's the same as on the CRD, went bad and the car started consuming large amounts of oil that settled in the intercooler. It was under warranty and the turbo was replaced but it still used oil. Then they replaced puck and for the next 100k miles it never needed oil between changes. My 99.5 Jetta using the same puck also never needed oil between 10k changes.

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:21 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

My guess, the is TDI 1.9L and as long as the engine is in good shape the puck works.
With the CRD 2.8L puck is undersized for the application and stressed even more by cold weather.
A bigger puck or better engine top mount oil separator would be a much better fix.

mackruss · **Posted:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm

Guilty as charged - i used heater hose and intend buying a length of hydraulic hosing.

I once removed the cover of the puck and fitted a filter in the puck to assist with the absorption of the oil in the vapour but
was advised to remove it in case it blocked up and created crankcase pressure.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:17 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

My guess, the is TDI 1.9L and as long as the engine is in good shape the puck works.
With the CRD 2.8L puck is undersized for the application and stressed even more by cold weather.
A bigger puck or better engine top mount oil separator would be a much better fix.

I haven't had the plastic engine cover on for a year so I definitely have the room for a bigger oil separator.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm

Squeeto wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

My guess, the is TDI 1.9L and as long as the engine is in good shape the puck works.
With the CRD 2.8L puck is undersized for the application and stressed even more by cold weather.
A bigger puck or better engine top mount oil separator would be a much better fix.

I haven't had the plastic engine cover on for a year so I definitely have the room for a bigger oil separator.

An elongated oval tube or box filled with a media like steel wool or plastic equivalent with a 19mm fitting that goes into the valve cover grommet and another 19mm fitting at the other end would do the trick. Having an access cover that can be removed to clean or replace the media (not News Media) would make it great. Old Navy had a good design, but based upon what we have seen, bigger would be better and being close to the engine so it does not freeze up would be great. Having the oil separator on top would let the oil it catches drain back into the engine. With it staying warm, any moisture would be drawn into the engine as a mist and kinda act like water injection. Make it flat enough and the engine cover would fit on and any Enviro Nazis would not know about it, even though the valve cover mounted oil separator would do more fore the environment that all of them have collectively done.

Let the Gear Head Designs Begin and lets mod!!!

mackruss · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:23 am

Joe Romas wrote:

mackruss wrote:

Well i removed my EHM the other day as the hose had become so soft from the oil and vapour that it popped off the CVC puck and started spewing oil on the tappet cover. Gone back to stock for the time being, prolly feeling a bit guilty about the enviroment and spray painting those behind me.

Did you use 3/4" hose :?:

If so that's your problem. The original hose is metric and it's closer to 11/16" :mrgreen:

One of the heater hoses on a XJ is 11/16" and that's what I used and there is/was no swelling or leakage :jester:

I once owned a 1996 Passat TDI and the puck, yes it's the same as on the CRD, went bad and the car started consuming large amounts of oil that settled in the intercooler. It was under warranty and the turbo was replaced but it still used oil. Then they replaced puck and for the next 100k miles it never needed oil between changes. My 99.5 Jetta using the same puck also never needed oil between 10k changes.

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

I managed to get hold of about 5 foot of hydraulic hose in 5/8", it wont fit easily on the puck like the fuel hose did because it was softer. is 5/8"
okay to use as an EHM if i strtch the one end of the hose a bit to fit on the puck. The 3/4" hydraulic hose is to cumbersome and bloody expensive.

What size hose are you guys using with the Provent?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:18 am

mackruss wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

mackruss wrote:

Well i removed my EHM the other day as the hose had become so soft from the oil and vapour that it popped off the CVC puck and started spewing oil on the tappet cover. Gone back to stock for the time being, prolly feeling a bit guilty about the enviroment and spray painting those behind me.

Did you use 3/4" hose :?:

If so that's your problem. The original hose is metric and it's closer to 11/16" :mrgreen:

One of the heater hoses on a XJ is 11/16" and that's what I used and there is/was no swelling or leakage :jester:

I once owned a 1996 Passat TDI and the puck, yes it's the same as on the CRD, went bad and the car started consuming large amounts of oil that settled in the intercooler. It was under warranty and the turbo was replaced but it still used oil. Then they replaced puck and for the next 100k miles it never needed oil between changes. My 99.5 Jetta using the same puck also never needed oil between 10k changes.

The puck does work on TDI's and that brings up the question why it does not work on our CRD's :ALONE:

I managed to get hold of about 5 foot of hydraulic hose in 5/8", it wonyt fit easily on the puck like the fuel hose did because it was softer. is 5/8"
okay to use as an EHM if i strtch the one end of the hose a bit to fit on the puck. The 3/4" hydraulic hose is to cumbersome and bloody expensive.

What size hose are you guys using with the Provent?

3/4" (19mm) You don't want to build any crank case pressure.

bhc04 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:44 pm

I live in AZ. desert and did the EHM to my CRD few years ago. I ran 3/4" heater hose from puck over and down on passenger side of engine compartment cut end of hose on 45* angle and it fits nicely into a hole in the frame. When ever I take a trip into any area where it's snow or below freezing, I d.c. EHM plug the CCV back to original. Don't want to take a chance of EHM getting plugged. I clean the MAP and puck about twice a year and never had found either with any large build up of gunk. I did start to build my own oil catch can but figured, why even go there with possibility of causing a problem. For those that want to save some bucks, rather than buy a Provent, you can build a catch can out of 2.5" black plastic pipe for about $20.00 using copper scrub pads inside for a medium.

mackruss · **Posted:** Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Could using 5/8" hose from the ccv exiting under the radiator ( no Provent) create cranckase pressure considering that the vapours exiting from the ccv are at such low pressure :juggle:

I also thought Old Navy was on the right track with his design. I've seen those K&N type pot air filters that fits on top of the carb on the older engines, perhaps something like that without the air filter element inside and adapted to fit into the grommet.

I don't really understand how the current ccv is supposed to operate as when i opened it and saw the design inside, i realised that this thing was totally useless.

shvlhead78 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:17 pm

i purchased a CRD with 34,500 and now have 39,850 on it it had a provent on it when i bought it . I live about 20 min from St. Louis MO and we have had the coldest winter in a long time and it has caused me no problems. The wife drives 56 miles round trip to work and it sits outside 8 hours in the cold, and still the provent performs flawlessly. i do no not understand how and why these freeze up on some CRD owners. I do keep it very clean of oil residue and the 34.00$ filter is changed at the recommended time as said by Mann.
I also recently changed oil , added a bigger filter and increased the volume to 7 quarts of oil. I can say that the CRD seems to enjoy the added volume it is a little quieter at idle and the blow by to the provent is less do not know why but after 2 weeks of use and 56 miles a day 5 days a week the filter is not yet completely wet with oil.

Is there a correlation - Provent runners and RMS failure?

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