CRD Broken Timing Belt Damage

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

My Liberty just broke its timing belt and I am trying to get some others experiences as what to expect to find, damage-wise. I am up for repairing the engine if it limits the damage to the cylinder head, but beyond that i will probably just try and sell it to someone who can use the vehicle as-is.

I am aware that it is an interference engine and it is probably not going to be pretty, but i haven't been able to dig up real life accounts of the damages people have seen.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Hopefully it is just a set of rocker arms, these are designed to fail before a valve bends. Might as well do the timing belt while it is down and clean the intake manifold of soot buildup. The CRD will most likely run better. Good luck.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Dang, sorry to hear that :cry:

. How many miles on when it broke?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:22 pm

X2 GDE's comments - Sir Sam has experience dealing with this so PM him or check posts.

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

205,000 miles. (I know, I know)

I had been fastidious about preventative maintenance on the vehicle with fluid changes, etc. I don't know how I let this slip by. I will probably tear it down this weekend, crossing my fingers that it is just rocker arms (and timing belt, and all the other stuff like water pump and pulleys, etc)

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:20 pm

Dabincharlotte wrote:

205,000 miles. I don't know how I let this slip by.

No excuse.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:11 am

Hey, give him a break. He was maybe taking it to the stealer for servicing and they thought it had a chain.

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

ha ha ha. No worries. I was sure that someone would scold me for not fixing it sooner, so I was prepared to take my lumps.

But looking at it a different way, If I had repaired this at 100,000 miles, then at 200,000 miles again, I would be shelling out about the same amount. (Now that I made that statement, the internal damage will be record-setting. Kharma will get me)

Just kidding. I promise that at 300,000 miles I will change the timing belt whether it needs it or not.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:32 am

Well now we know that SOME timings belts are good for 200k miles :BANANA:

spitfire36o · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:40 am

Dabincharlotte wrote:

ha ha ha. No worries. I was sure that someone would scold me for not fixing it sooner, so I was prepared to take my lumps.

But looking at it a different way, If I had repaired this at 100,000 miles, then at 200,000 miles again, I would be shelling out about the same amount. (Now that I made that statement, the internal damage will be record-setting. Kharma will get me)

Just kidding. I promise that at 300,000 miles I will change the timing belt whether it needs it or not.

oh wow...i thought you changed it at 100k and you were only 5k over the service point. Going 105k over is a bold move.

patmaz · **Joined:** Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:52 pm **Posts:** 134

205k on the original timing belt???Kind of amazing beside the fact that it broke,first time i see a timing belt last so long!

I wish you the best of luck. :wink:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:53 am

Hello and welcome to the forum, be sure to read the noob guide:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

You will find lots of useful information referenced in the guide, including down at the bottom several links related to timing belt issues:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62278

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60858

In short, you need to tear everything down, check and see if you got lucky and only need to replace the rockers. You will need the miller specific tools to retime the engine when putting everything back together.

Where in the country are you located?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:54 am

Bold... Not too bright, but bold.

I pushed mine to 108km and thought I was being a rebel. Obviously not. What can you expect in there? Well, I would certainly NOW look to change the idler pulleys and the tensioner pulley, as the bearings on those are probably shot after so much mileage. They fail by ejecting grease from the center first, then start to howl... Then fall apart. If the movement of any of them is wobbly or loose-feeling at all, they are completely gone and might have contributed to the failure.

Doing the water pump at this point is not a bad idea, and the pain-in-the-arse way that job is should learn ya to remember the service intervals. :mrgreen:

Other than that, I fully agree with what Green Diesel (Keith) said - Look to replace all 16 rocker arms in the top of the head, they are the designed failure point. Your valves are probably just fine. If you have been running with EGR for this long, your cylinder head could certainly use a good cleaning too, get all the muck out. You might also want to take the 4 injectors to your nearest Bosch service center and have them professionally cleaned and checked. (Before you remove them, write down their numbers and the cylinder position - it matters)

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

Before I dive into this, I have been thinking over the last couple of houors about just what I may be getting into and I may just move on and sell this Liberty. Anyone out there looking to buy a budget-priced diesel Jeep that may need a little bt of work?

Is there a proper place to post this up here? I just wanted to throw this out there before I dive into all this work - I have a lot of stuff on my plate now. The vehicle is in the Charlotte, NC area.

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

I have been putting together my list of parts. Two items that I have not located yet are the rocker arms and new head bolts. Neither moparonlineparts.com or moparpartsamerica.com show them. If anyone has any resources they would share, that would be great.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:08 pm

Dabincharlotte wrote:

I have been putting together my list of parts. Two items that I have not located yet are the rocker arms and new head bolts. Neither moparonlineparts.com or moparpartsamerica.com show them. If anyone has any resources they would share, that would be great.

you need the part numbers, offhand the rockers are part number: 5066780AA cost about $50 each list price x16 = $800

Look in the noob guide, you will find a link to the service manuals and parts fiches, download the parts fiche and look for the head bolts, take the part number and put into into any of those OEM websites to lookup the part cost.

Granahan378 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:52 pm

There is a set of 16 rocker arms for sale on the forum right now for $39 a piece. The tools would be nice but not 100 % needed i bought the intake manifold guide pins for $15 dollars off of ebay and made it very easy to put the intake manifold back on. Thats the only specialty tool i used. The metal gasket is reusable on the intake manifold so thats one less thing to buy. Every one is doom and gloom on here but if you follow one or two of the timing belt write ups you can get it done fairly easy. I went with green diesels write up and another one on the forum which used some bolts you can buy at home depot to hold the cam shafts in place worked great till i over tightened them breaking my air intake so i had to remove them as well. Its a chore but not real hard. I would replace the rocker arms, do the timing belt, rotate the engine by hand and id be willing to bet everything is good again. I could be wrong but i havent seen any motor damage from a failed timing belt except the rocker arms which are doing what they are designed for. Fix it and drive it, its a jeep!

nissanfrontier · **Joined:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:09 pm **Posts:** 145

Wow great post 205k broken timing belt humm must be pretty good quality in these jeeps. Serp belt runs $150 at my dealer must be made of kevlar or gold. Replaced with $23 napa. My Nissan 3.3 is coming due for belt change 97k

Dabincharlotte · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 10

I got the Liberty disassembled over the weekend and although the belt has not broken, a bunch of teeth had been broken off the belt. And, several of the rocker arms were broken (as promised). I ordered the parts I need and with a little luck I will have them by the weekend. This week will be spent cleaning and getting ready for reassembly.

Couple of quick questions for someone who has had the cam cover off before and reassembled.

- Other than getting everything lined up and locked down before tightening the cover, is there any thing to look out for?

- Does the flex plate alignment hole only have one hole for lining the crank at 90 degrees after TDC? it seems in the illustration that there is another hole that might line up, but it isn't real clear if that hole is on the same circumference.

Any suggestions on where to get the timing tools?

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:36 pm

GDE rents the timing tools for a very reasonable rate. They would also be able to give you more info on checking the timing, which in your case is IMPERATIVE to get right on the flywheel.

There are multiple LARGE holes on the flywheel that will indeed feel like a "correct" pinning... But the pin will not be stable and 'horizontal' through the outer hole, as there won't be anything supporting it on the flywheel side - So that is not correct.

You have two options for a correct 90* ATDC pinning, if you (hopefully!) have a witness mark on the crankshaft hub. Position the hub with the bolt holes in a 3/6/9/12 clock position, with the witness mark at the 3 o'clock location. Then check on the flywheel, by inserting a 6mm hex key (longer is better) into the hole at an angle, and tapping to locate the flywheel itself. If you can tap all around and it is solid, try for the hole in the very center. The key should be horizontal and perpendicular to the body of the flywheel cover when you get it right.

I don't believe there is a hole on the 180* out position of the flywheel, at least I hope there isn't. I would ask Keith for confirmation about that part, you are looking for the #1 cylinder to be 90* ATDC on the (I believe) intake stroke.

The cam pins will both seat when both cams are at the same location, since the belt stripped, Keith will have to confirm that they can be positioned correctly independent of each other, just turn them to the right spot and pin...? I don't know on that one either, I (thankfully) haven't had a belt break on me. Hope I never do.

CRD Broken Timing Belt Damage

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