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striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:46 pm

Now that I have passed the timing belt replacement hurdle, I am thinking about what I can do to make my Jeep have a softer, more comfortable ride. Wife won't ride in it, good or bad. I was thinkng maybe a lift with JBA upper's.

What have people done, other than getting different tires, to get the old guy soft ride, and possibly other handling benefits, for the CRD?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:24 pm

I tell people it is a Jeep, not a Cadillac.

Although, I did get a significant improvement in ride when I replaced the Load Range E highway tires with Load Range D Commercial Traction Tread... Then again when I replaced 2 of those with 2 Long Trail T/A passenger variants of the same tire.

I made the replacements b/c the tires were due at each time, and selected what I did for reasons of weather (the tractions) and cost (The Long Trails) and have no problem with either.
If you need snow tires, the Commercial Tractions are worth every penny and can have studs installed. Initially, I did that, and they were fantastic.

From the reading I have seen, try a lighter weight tire. The concept of "unsprung weight" is still a bit fuzzy to me, but I can understand the concepts of a lever action. If the lever is balanced, any force (impact) will travel equally across the lever and you will feel it inside the vehicle. If the lever is unbalanced, the light end will react more violently to the impact, transmitting less energy inside the vehicle on the heavy side of the lever.

Your suspension pivoting is the lever in this case, and I do believe what I read that each pound of tire weight contributes the equal of 20 lbs of interior cargo weight - both to the ride quality and potentially to the fuel mileage.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:32 pm

I do need to replace the shocks, just go stock?

My Hankook AT 'E's are 51 lbs each

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:42 pm

It's a Jeep,you want a firmer ride.If you want it to ride like a caddy then buy a caddy as trying to make a KJ ride like a caddy will only make unsafe at higher speeds and effect braking ability due to it's higher center of gravity.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:27 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

It's a Jeep,you want a firmer ride.If you want it to ride like a caddy then buy a caddy as trying to make a KJ ride like a caddy will only make unsafe at higher speeds and effect braking ability due to it's higher center of gravity.

Of course it's a Jeep. Just curious as to what else people do to make them better handling, riding, and enduring. Was lured by JBA claims, and wondering what people thought.
http://www.jeepinbyal.com/Jeep-Liberty-Lift-Kit-KJ.aspx

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:06 pm

Ignore the troll.

The "unsafe because of high center of gravity" is nonsense in normal driving unless you are completely spastic with the wheel at 60+ mph. Softer suspension can actually IMPROVE braking performance by reducing wheel hop if you hit a bump while braking hard, because it will keep the tires in contact with the road better.

I replaced my front struts (If you can get them as "quickstruts" with the spring already installed, DO IT) and I did get a nice improvement in the ride. Yes, I stayed with the stock strut, I got what was available-but-not-junk from Autozone. I had to have them installed by a shop however, because you CANNOT remove the spring without using a shop press. The parts-store spring tool didn't fit in the small gaps on my springs. You also need to compress the spring to re-install it on the new strut.

This is one job that I was happy to let a local shop deal with, just too dangerous if the spring tool decides to let go. You could easily be put into the hospital.

The rear shocks are easy to replace, and I probably should do that at some point... Probably will when I replace the last 2 Commercial Traction tires in a couple months.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:18 pm

geordi wrote:

Ignore the troll.

The "unsafe because of high center of gravity" is nonsense in normal driving unless you are completely spastic with the wheel at 60+ mph. Softer suspension can actually IMPROVE braking performance by reducing wheel hop if you hit a bump while braking hard, because it will keep the tires in contact with the road better.

I replaced my front struts (If you can get them as "quickstruts" with the spring already installed, DO IT) and I did get a nice improvement in the ride. Yes, I stayed with the stock strut, I got what was available-but-not-junk from Autozone. I had to have them installed by a shop however, because you CANNOT remove the spring without using a shop press. The parts-store spring tool didn't fit in the small gaps on my springs. You also need to compress the spring to re-install it on the new strut.

This is one job that I was happy to let a local shop deal with, just too dangerous if the spring tool decides to let go. You could easily be put into the hospital.

The rear shocks are easy to replace, and I probably should do that at some point... Probably will when I replace the last 2 Commercial Traction tires in a couple months.

A softer suspension or worn shocks can create a fun time in a vehicle with a high center of gravity like the KJ unless you increase the track width(more then wheel spacers give you).Worn shocks,yes KJ's use front shocks, create a nose dive under heavy/panic braking thus taking the required weight off the rear tires,more then would occure by weight transfer when you have good shocks.Soft and/or weak shocks also let the tire hop when hitting a bump and that equals less traction since the tire is not in contact with the road surface.New and/or firmer shocks react quicker to keep the tire planted on the road surface,sure a little more bone jarring but keeps traction and control.That tire hope from worn shocks also wears the tires in a funning fashion which is easy to spot.

If you call someone with 15+ years of automotive experiance,10 of those years in light/medium diesel, and a ASE Master Tech(with L1) a troll on how a soft/firm suspension performs,well why would anyone listen to your ramblings when you could not read the owners manual on how to properly flat tow your own KJ then try and pass the blame to someone else.

CoopaTroopa · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:17 pm

geordi wrote:

Ignore the troll.

The "unsafe because of high center of gravity" is nonsense in normal driving unless you are completely spastic with the wheel at 60+ mph. Softer suspension can actually IMPROVE braking performance by reducing wheel hop if you hit a bump while braking hard, because it will keep the tires in contact with the road better.

I replaced my front struts (If you can get them as "quickstruts" with the spring already installed, DO IT) and I did get a nice improvement in the ride. Yes, I stayed with the stock strut, I got what was available-but-not-junk from Autozone. I had to have them installed by a shop however, because you CANNOT remove the spring without using a shop press. The parts-store spring tool didn't fit in the small gaps on my springs. You also need to compress the spring to re-install it on the new

This is one job that I was happy to let a local shop deal with, just too dangerous if the spring tool decides to let go. You could easily be put into the hospital.

The rear shocks are easy to replace, and I probably should do that at some point... Probably will when I replace the last 2 Commercial Traction tires in a couple months.

What kj are you driving that has struts??? :roll:

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:37 pm

Your experience mounting tires means nothing to me TROLL, when you consistently refuse to even acknowledge my question to you about that failure.

I blame nobody for that, I attempt to pass nothing off about it. My question that you continue to ignore is this: When a failure in the transfer case from a BROKEN GEAR re-engages the transfer case's shaft coupling it to the transmission... HOW WOULD THE POSITION OF THE PARKING PAWL MAKE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF DIFFERENCE???

The answer from someone with ACTUAL experience in transfer cases and transmissions, and not a Evergreen University bought-at-night "diploma" with the letters ase on it (probably in crayon) was that the transmission was going to die no matter what. It was a RESULT not a CAUSE in that failure. You cannot forcibly attempt to engage a non-moving shaft at speed (effectively slamming the input shaft from zero to 60mph instantly) without expecting bad things to happen. The parking system is NOT CAPABLE of resisting that, and would have made no difference. The back of the transmission WOULD start to rotate unless the input shaft shattered, and the result is the same.

Now, since you will no doubt fail to read any of that and skip right to this line, I will start again. You are a troll. If the CRD uses "shocks" at the front suspension points... Where are they? Is there some magic FailureStone-only secret mounting area that only trolls know about? If you are instead referring to that gas-filled pressure tube that is mounted behind the front tire... That is INSIDE a coiled spring... That is a STRUT. Someone claiming 15 years of experience doing more than just huffing tire nitrogen should know that. Even the most immature parts counter teenager knows what a strut is, and that it is NOT the same as a shock.

It might have a similar function to a shock, which is a non-integral part of the wheel suspension on other vehicles (or the rear tires of a CRD) but the difference is that you COULD theoretically operate a vehicle without a shock. Sure, the ride would suffer. No argument there. HOWEVER, in the 3-points-of-support that a front wheel needs to work... The third point IS that strut. It is much stronger / heavier than a shock because it does a much more important job. That spring around the strut is under extreme pressure, even when the entire strut is removed from the vehicle.

To remove the strut for replacement, there are 3 or 4 small retainer bolts at the top under the hood (on a VERY strong section of the steel body) and 1 or 2 big supports at the bottom. On our CRD, the strut also has a "yoke" type support that splits onto both sides of the front axle shaft.

Once you have removed this... You can't put the vehicle back on the road to drive it without that - the wheel has no support. That is what a strut does.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:44 pm

CoopaTroopa wrote:

What kj are you driving that has struts??? :roll:

Obviously one that intends to remain on the road. Have a look at this link then:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Shocks!s!Struts/C0077/C0035.oap?model=Liberty&vi=1431569&year=2005&make=Jeep

which is a search on O'Reilly Auto parts for all "shocks / struts" for a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. Huh - They show struts. Imagine that.

Or maybe Autozone knows they only have shocks?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Gabriel-Ready-Mount-Shock-Strut-Front/2005-Jeep-Liberty-4WD/_/N-jmxdvZ8oxxw?itemIdentifier=266367_144781_2362_

Hmm... I guess they are wrong too. I'll go right out and correct them since it was you and TJKJ who brought it to my attention and edification.

CoopaTroopa · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:10 pm

I guess no matter how many times its posted on here some people will never listen. Do you know the difference between a shock and strut?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:14 pm

Since I only know what the information is that helps me find the correct parts for my vehicle, why don't you educate me, O oracle of suspensions.

CoopaTroopa · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:26 pm

Please google what a strut looks like and tell me if it is what is under your liberty. That way I you can see for your self.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:34 pm

Remember fellas; it isn't serious until somebody busts a Caps Lock!

:POPCORN:

Hey, Geordi, I have to ask you a dumb question via PM....

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:37 pm

geordi wrote:

Since I only know what the information is that helps me find the correct parts for my vehicle, why don't you educate me, O oracle of suspensions.

Struts are a intergrated and structural part of the suspension,IE they replace a upper control arm and they require a bearing as they are requires to turn.The KJ uses a coilover assembly,IE a shock surrounded by a coil spring and still reuires a upper control arm with a balljoint so the knuckle has the 2nd pivot point as the coilover can not rotate.

Strut..............

Coilover on a IFS.............

But anyone with more then 5 mins of actual automotive training could tell you that and why a auto trans must be in P and the t-case in N when flat towing.Funny you think all I do it change tires,I actually have not changed a tire in months as I make to much money for them to allow me to change tires let alone a oil change as they loose money if I do.Now if I must then yes I do but as lead tech I'm more of the diag and heavy replacement side.I've also spent 3 years rebuilding Allison HT 740D transmissions,Allison MT654 transmission,and the GM Turbo 400 along with the AMG218/AMG242 t-cases not to mention the Detroit Diesel 8V92TA/6V92TA and the Cummins NHC250 engines.Then we could get into rebuilding Rockwell 2.5 and 5 ton top loaders or the modified AMC20 diffs the HMMWV's use.

CoopaTroopa · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:40 pm

Thanks Troy, posting pictures from my phone just wasnt going to happen haha.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:51 pm

strut :

Code:

b : to walk with a pompous and affected air

that seems to be the best definition I've seen - of the Strut/shock arguments

The purpose of language is to communicate an idea - if you understood what he was saying it worked.

to striperman36 - my definition of an 'old guy ride' would be a Porsche 911 - can't get there on the Jeep.
most folks do like the OME suspension - it's 1 1/2" taller gives better control and a better ride.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Why don't you just drive mine. It has the lightest, softest (SL) and smallest tires (16s) and Bilsteins. It is perfectly aligned and corner weighted. If she won't ride in mine, I don't know how much more you can do. PM me.

DOC

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Good point - Tires have a huge impact - running a Standard Load (i.e. P or SL) tire is much softer and fits the Liberty weight requirements.

(load grade E's are truck tires - great for Moab - not for soft rides)

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:14 pm

[quote="DOC4444"]Why don't you just drive mine. It has the lightest, softest (SL) and smallest tires (16s) and Bilsteins. It is perfectly aligned and corner weighted. If she won't ride in mine, I don't know how much more you can do. PM me.

DOC[/

Corner weighted? It's yours?

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