Stuck between a Liberty or Excursion?

jblakeman · **Joined:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:59 pm **Posts:** 4

Hello All, my first post in this forum. I've been looking for over a year at getting a diesel SUV to compliment my truck (see sig) for general purpose stuff (some hauling, groceries, people hauler) while keeping my truck parked as it's been my daily driver and the miles are getting up there....plan on keeping it for the heavy / dirty stuff....

I wanted to stay with domestic makes so I've went through looking at the following: 90's GM Suburbans with the 6.5; 07-08 GC with the 3.0 MB engine; 00-03 Excursions with the 7.3 PSD; and finally 05-06 Liberty with the CRD.

The Suburbans are really old now (oldest trucks are now 13 years old...hard to find without rust and low miles...). The 07-08 GC's are nice however with low miles they demand lot's of coin....and with the complex emissions plus MB parts will be expensive to maintain. The Excursion is a beast....however it's roomy, comfortable to drive, and a proven diesel engine (avoiding the 6.0 engine)....however I'll probably never use the 3rd seat (unless I'm hauling lot's of people) and it's not the best to maneuver in tighter places (my Ram is surprisingly nimble and easier to navigate than the Excursion...). The 7.3's with the right parts get low 20's MPG with light hauling which appeals to me as well...so I was set on buying an X but needed to check out some Liberty CRD's as well....

So I've driven 2 CRD's so far (an 05 and an 06) one a Sport, the other Limited. The engine is surprisingly peppy and shifts quickly through the gears...my mom has a 04 with the 3.7 that doesn't seem as responsive..I do wish there was more room inside and being I'm 6'3" my head almost touches the moon roof which bothers me a bit. I do feel like I'm looking out the visor as well since the roof line drops down near my line of sight looking out through the windshield. But....being smaller than the X it's quite nimble for navigating the tight spaces and parking lots which appeals to me along with squeezing out more MPG's on the highway....

So I've read a lot about these engines....and the NOOB forum as well....here's my questions...

1. Injectors only last 125 - 150K on my Cummins engine, what's the life of these, anyone changed them, and how much do they cost, labor, etc.? Does adding a fuel pump to the tank prolong the life and / or addition filtration (like a 2 micron filter kit from Air Dog...)

2. Anyone found a aftermarket company(s) (outside of GDE...) that sells true performance parts for these engines (i.e. Intakes, Exhaust, Turbos, intercooler hoses etc.) that are engine specific (I know there is plenty of parts for the Liberty chassis just trying to get a gauge on how much we can customize these compared to the bigger diesel rigs...)

3. I'm going to want to delete any emissions, remove all exhaust restrictions (cat, muffler) and would like to go SR8 with the exhaust...anyone done this...how does it sound, is it worth it or completely possible?

4. Common parts like filters, etc., seem to be easy to find / purchase. Specific CRD parts, where do you go to buy outside of Mopar or is that the only source...how long does it take to get...anyone else selling parts for these engines that's reliable / cheaper / faster to get other than through Chrysler?

5. The Cummins and Powerstroke engines have great longevity (100K's of miles with little maintenance)....how do these VM engines hold up...my plan is on keeping this vehicle a long time (as long as rust doesn't eat out the frame beforehand..) so wondering if anyone from this forum has opinions on this or have driven their CRD into the 200K-300K territory without issues....

Please help in my decision...

Thanks,

Jon

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:54 pm

get the Ford,you'll be better off with the 7.3 that does not have a timing belt.

Tony P. · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:41 am

Hello Jblakeman

Great first post!

Quote:

; 07-08 GC with the 3.0 MB engine;

Quote:

. The 07-08 GC's are nice however with low miles they demand lot's of coin....and with the complex emissions plus MB parts will be expensive to maintain.

I believe the 07-08 GC are VM engines as are the liberty just slightly larger, which are also used by MB.

In my family we own two crd liberty's and love them! One with approximately 70,000 the other 17?,???. For the most part with maintenance and minor repairs. Most parts are readily accessible however by the same token some parts have been on national back order.

Maybe it is due to the limited production of this vehicle that the choices are few and far in between.

Quote:

2. Anyone found a aftermarket company(s) (outside of GDE...) that sells true performance parts for these engines (i.e. Intakes, Exhaust, Turbos, intercooler hoses etc.) that are engine specific (I know there is plenty of parts for the Liberty chassis just trying to get a gauge on how much we can customize these compared to the bigger diesel rigs...)

GDE offers several different quality products for the crd owners, which include a stage two turbo. Samco makes great intercooler hoses, or you can have a set custom made like my self.
Bigger diesels have a huge market hense the availability of part and or accessories.
Tony

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 am

Hey Jon,

Welcome to the forum. Gotta say that I'm right there with ya on the choice.

I own an '05 CRD and have been shopping the Excursion of late. I also work in the diesel industry and talk about most all of the diesel engines that you have highlighted.

In my opinion, you are on the right track with a 7.3. 6.0s can be good but typically require a good amount of money to be put to them whereas the 7.3 is like a perpetual motion machine.

By all means, avoid at all costs the GM 6.2/6.5 and the M-B powered Grand Cherokee.

If you want performance, the 7.3 Excursion is truly the way to go. The Liberty CRD would certainly respond to performance upgrades, but at what cost? The Power Stroke engines are well supported and there is a plethora of performance parts and sources for them. I especially like Thoroughbred Diesel in Kentucky.

Hope this helps,

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:43 am

Tony P. wrote:

Hello Jblakeman

Great first post!

Quote:

; 07-08 GC with the 3.0 MB engine;

Quote:

. The 07-08 GC's are nice however with low miles they demand lot's of coin....and with the complex emissions plus MB parts will be expensive to maintain.

I believe the 07-08 GC are VM engines as are the liberty just slightly larger, which are also used by MB.

In my family we own two crd liberty's and love them! One with approximately 70,000 the other 17?,???. For the most part with maintenance and minor repairs. Most parts are readily accessible however by the same token some parts have been on national back order.

Maybe it is due to the limited production of this vehicle that the choices are few and far in between.

Quote:

2. Anyone found a aftermarket company(s) (outside of GDE...) that sells true performance parts for these engines (i.e. Intakes, Exhaust, Turbos, intercooler hoses etc.) that are engine specific (I know there is plenty of parts for the Liberty chassis just trying to get a gauge on how much we can customize these compared to the bigger diesel rigs...)

GDE offers several different quality products for the crd owners, which include a stage two turbo. Samco makes great intercooler hoses, or you can have a set custom made like my self.
Bigger diesels have a huge market hense the availability of part and or accessories.
Tony

The '07 & '08 GCs use a V6 MB engine not a VM.
The planned upcoming GC will offer a VM engine if the EPA does not put too much white powder up their noses. Dodge and GM ( GM and Fiat/Chrysler jointly own VM) want to use the 3.0L VM as well.
Due to the much greater number of 7.3L PS produced over the years, unless you pull your own wrenches to undo the Bean Counter Engineering and do the maintenance, you will find more good mechanics to work on a 7.3L PS than a 2.8L VM.
The 7.3L PS has lots of bolt on mods to fix engineering errors like the return line kits for the injectors and great EGR delete kits that many mechanics know about and have used. For the Liberty CRD, I am glad I have a home machine shop to fab my own mods when needed. The SEGR gets rid of the EGR, the ORM shuts off the EGR but leaves the CEL on, another easy to do almost wrench free option toted by some only reduces EGR but does not eliminate it.
The Stock Torque Converter and the F-37 TCM flash to fix it are total crap. The replacement Mopar torque converter that Chrysler now sells has bigger dampener springs and is what stock should have been since day one. I have a Suncoast converter, Transgo kit that also fixes the soft valve seat in the front pump that destroys the converter lock up clutch and in some cases the transmission.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:03 pm

I have an 06 CRD and an 03 6.0 Excursion. I am going through that battle over which to keep. I like the jeep, but every time I turn around there's something else going on.Until this brake thing I have going on I have never had issues but I rarely have time off to try to work on the Jeep myself, and I have noplace to work on it unless I go home to NC(and then I try to have time with my son) And I really like the Ex even though I cant justify keeping it and still wonder if just over 3 more mpg is worth what I would give up. But to be honest the other night I found myself considering an Audi A3 But I really want to keep either AWD or 4WD.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:22 pm

some owners seem to have more trouble with their CRD than others. Mine has so far been real reliable with doing some of the mods. I think not being a Ford fan either is a good choice. you have to know what size vehicle you want/need. I prefer a smaller vehicle for the MPG and easy maneuverability, plus I don't have kids so hauling people is not an issue. I live on a narrower street and have a tighter off street parking area so for me and my needs an Excursion wold be way too large and difficult to drive. For you it may be ok, pick the one that fits you needs and wants best..

jblakeman · **Joined:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:59 pm **Posts:** 4

I appreciate all the responses....

Mikey1273....your right as I'm not a Ford guy in general though I'm not necessarily brand loyal either...and my choice in buying a Dodge over the competition back then was GM was still working out the bugs with injectors on the Duramax....and the SuperDuty's moved on to the 6.0L which already had problems out of the gate (very evident on the Ford Truck forums both then and now...) The Cummins CR engines were fairly reliable (as long as the lift pump issues were addressed).

Not trying to compare but I don't want the 2.8 to be a "risk management" engine like the 6.0 is in the Ford's and have to worry about a sensor here, an head gasket here, an injector here, a turbo here...etc. Like you stated "some owners seem to have more trouble than others...." same has been said on the 6.0 forums for Ford as well...Ford was still in "testing" of this engine and it seems that the last years of the 6.0 were the most reliable 2007-2009 however the Excursion was only around till 2005.

SureFtedMntainGoat · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:11 pm

We went back and forth when buying the new vehicle. Excursion with 7.3, Liberty CRD or TDI Jetta. We bought an 05 CRD. Love it .......until the trans issue that I am posting about right now. Still love it because I can get 30 MPG on trips, have four wheel drive and it is a BEAST in the snow with Blizzaks. I do not have to worry about the wife and daughter getting stuck in the snow. My business has two F-350s with the 7.3. Outside of standard maintenance for a diesel, we have only had one come down with the dreaded Oil Pan Rot. Replacing it is a pain as you need to take the cab off, lift motor up enough for the pan to clear the cross member underneath. Small price for us as the trucks keep on chugging. 265 K on the Blue CCSRW and 160K on the Silver CCDRW. I average 20 MPG in the Blue SRW when empty, 15-17 with 3k in bed and towing 10K. Solid trucks. We are in the backup DC power field...lots of HEAVY batteries and equipment hauled to crazy locations. Have used and destroyed the 6.0s. Stretched head bolts/gasket failures. Business partner has a nice 05 F-250. It is in the shop with a failed fuel module and a blown head gasket. After they put the new ARP bolts and upgraded gasket, he will be good for a long time. He has already had the EGR deleted. .......Pulling back from Ramble...... Small, agile, good MPG and with good community support for CRD gremlins= Liberty CRD or Grand Cherokee CRD. Large and incharge with huge upgrade parts list, OK MPG with DP Tuner chip = Excursion with 7.3

On another note, wife and I have been looking at the CRD Commanders in Europe. More room and same pluses as the CRD Liberties. Have not looked at price of getting it registered here....shipping is not bad.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:15 pm

I have an '01 7.3 Ex and '05 CRD. I bought the Ex to tow heavy trailers and not much else. Can't imagine being sentenced to it as a daily driver. With a DP chip, it gets 12 MPG towing 5K, 18 empty in mixed driving. It takes a lot of $$ and effort to make it acceptable.

I bought the CRD for my wife who wanted a relatively small DD that gets over 30 MPG in mixed driving and will also comfortably tow her 5K pound horse trailer. It gets 20 MPG towing 5K pounds. It takes a lot of $$ and effort to make it acceptable.

I think the CRD will require many more repairs per mile than a comparable condition 7.3. Unless you are absolutely enthralled with the unique mix of strengths of the KJ CRD, I would pass. I intend to do whatever repairs are needed to keep it going. I'm not concerned about the time or $$. This is not a "normal" relationship with a vehicle. No snideness intended, but you sound too normal to be glad you own a CRD after, say, three years.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. (BTW, I drive a Mini 50 miles everyday back and forth to work.)

DOC

OldSkull · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:39 am

Not a Ford fan but the Excursion is a hell of a truck compare to a Liberty CRD I'm not even tall as you are and I wish I choose a bigger model like a Commander. Your gone hate your ride if you pick the CRD, the first mod you sure need is building custom seat brackets living no space to sit behind you.

Things may change in a near future, Chrysler is testing the 3.0L VM engine in a half ton RAM, the same engine they project to install in the 2013.5 GC and in a new 4 doors pickup similar to the Honda Ridgeline, the prototype was named "Ramcharger" I think... We still need confirmation on the later one but since that project create 1100 jobs, EPA may have no choice to let it go or look bad and provoke a tsunami of reply from public opinion asking to burn them alive this time. There is hope but only if this engine get certified.

Greasey Bob · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:34 am **Posts:** 228

I converted my CRD to run on Veg oil and it is possibly the best veggie vehicle I have ever seen. I helped convert a 7.3 Excursion and it was harder and used a added lift pump making it a little more complicated. But both are excellent grease vehicles. I hate parking the Roat's (Really oversized American truck) but they are great out on the open road. 7.3 Excursions are getting harder to find most have high mileage and high price tags. I have 133k miles on my CRD. with 60 of that on grease with minimal maintaince (timing belt was harse so were the ball joints) other than that mostly oil changes.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

I went through the same thing whenI bought mine. The Excursion would surely win if i was 6'3". I am exactly 6'0" and I find the headroom nearly inadequate.

Mine does average over 35 MPG on every freeway trip I have taken. I know a 7.3L will never do that.

Just add the cost of getting the CRD up to snuff into your calculations.

fastring · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:37 am

I'm 6'4" and the headroom is an issue in the Liberty but its my daily driver and fun to drive. My 02 F350 has 297k miles on it, I just took it for a near 3k mile road trip over one weekend last month and knew it would just make it.

The only probably with the Ex as a daily driving would be parking, I do get tired of trying to dock my F350, but its longer than an Ex (8' bed, crewcab). After driving the F350 for a few days, it was very refreshing to get into the Jeep.

There is also the "unique" factor of driving the Liberty. People stare at you when you are at the gas station with the green hose going to your Jeep. Everyone assumes you are making a mistake. Its fun.

Power to MPG, the Ex wins, but the Liberty makes for a better daily driver, IMO.

GaryC · **Joined:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:59 pm **Posts:** 21

I have a 2006 liberty CRD and while it's been reliable, I wouldn't want to use it for a daily driver. There are too many gotchas with the setup, the engineering is a bit sketchy as these were basically a cobbled together project from Chrysler instead of a really well thought out and designed vehicle. Parts can be difficult to come by and it's kind of an orphan, Chrysler seems to just want to forget that they ever made them. I like my CRD overall, but I view it as a toy instead of a serious reliable vehicle.

That being said, most of the folks on here that have problems with their CRDs induce it themselves in my opinion. Some are forever tinkering with them and modifying things in the name of reliability when all they're really doing is inducing more potential failure points. The OP mentioned availability of aftermarket mods, my recommendation is that if he's looking to mod something then find a 7.3L excursion, you'll be a lot less likely to screw something up with mods on that engine than a 2.8 CRD. Forget a 6.0L diesel, they're junk. That pretty much just leaves the 7.3 and while they were decent engines, they're really not all that. However, for a diesel SUV they're pretty much all you've got to choose from.

I have a 99 dodge/cummins 2500 with 375K miles so I know a bit about keeping a diesel running a long time. My gut feeling is that the 2.8L VM CRD motor just isn't as robustly built as a diesel should be. A quick look at things such as the timing belt bears this out. WTF puts a timing belt on a diesel motor? Would it really be that hard to engineer a timing chain or better yet a gear drive system into the thing? You've got to design reliability into a setup from the beginning and no amount of swapping glow plugs, torque converters, reprogramming ECU's and replacing turbos is going to change that.

If you have to have a diesel SUV then I think a 7.3L excursion is your best bet. Better yet would be to forget the SUV and pick up a late model crew cab/mega cab chevy duramax or dodge ram pickup. The duramax and cummins engines are proven reliable.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Here! Here!
Want a Cummins but ended up with a Liberty CRD for now. Bone stock and so far 12000 miles with no issues. Second owner and just going to do what is required or needed. Runs excellent.

liquidxit2 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:44 pm

If I had the means I would get a 7.3 excursion and not look back. But being as you already have a heavy duty truck for the big stuff a commuter friendly crd may be a better choice. But again I'm for the excursion.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

One of the previous posters said to say away from the Grand Cherokee CRD and I just wanted to say I respectfully DISAGREE.

The CRD is a great option between the full sized Excursion and the Liberty. It can tow 7400 lbs, it gets decent fuel economy, and except for an alternator failing on me (oil leaking past oil cap, also fixed with TSB splash guard on alternator), mine has been 100% reliable in 56k miles of use which included lots of towing of my 7,000 lb trailer (fully loaded for weekend) up and down mountain passes exceeding 12,000 feet. Mine is also chipped with an Immotion Stage II tune (great tune for power) which is used fairly often with my lead foot wife at the wheel.

My GC CRD at 56k miles has been MORE RELIABLE than my Jeep Liberty has and will ever be. The only complicated emissions device on the GC CRD is the DPF, and I love the fact that the exhaust tip is cleaner than my gasser vehicle (no soot at all). Lots of highway driving and/or hard driving ensures the DPF gets regenerated fully and regularly.

Two downsides to the GC CRD, they are expensive to buy and an oil change of 10 liters will cost you $100 but I change oil every 10k so it softens the blow a bit.

Phatjimmy · **Posted:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:13 am

Well, I can say this. I couldn't make up my mind either, so I got both. I own a 2005 Liberty CRD Limited with 125K on it and no trouble except for routine maintenance (and a few upgrades + the F37). It's a great daily driver and gets about 28-30 MPG. Kids car seats are a little tight and the cargo room is limited but it's a nice 4x4. I also have a 2005 Ford Excursion Limited with the dreaded 6.0L. 101K miles on it and knock on wood I have not had any major issues with it. Just a small fuel leak on the control unit that was repaired by ford. It get's 18-20 MPG mixed driving and is very roomy. Amazing for a 8k lbs vehicle. Tons of cargo space and the kids can't kick the drivers seat

. But both are good vehicles and both suffer from crap engineering issues & awful emission controls. What yoyo thought of putting an EGR on a diesel? Or even better, after 07' the DPF. Anyway, good luck in your search. Like other have said the 7.3 is hard to find in an X that doesn't have tons of mileage. I can say the 05 X with the 6.0L seems to have a lot of the bugs worked out. The CRD's just need some upgrades and they are very reliable and fun to drive.

jblakeman · **Joined:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:59 pm **Posts:** 4

Well I haven't been online in this forum for a while since I've been continuing to read posts on other forum's to hopefully narrow down a choice....darn...still looking...

Some have told me to stay with Ford (common platform, lot's of support) however you can only qualify for a loan on a vehicle less than 9 years old....that keeps me in the 2003 - 2005 territory with the lovely 6.0. Given that I only would look at the last year (2005) which I've been told is "slightly" more reliable than the 03 -04's but they still have their "issues" and most have at least over 100K which even if kept stock still concerns me on what will be the first to fail....

Nice to hear from a WK owner with the 3.0 in the GC. They seem even more rare than the Liberty's (can't even find any within 500 miles of my zip code to even test drive...) and like posted are expensive to purchase and maintain. I've been told these have their little "bugs" like the 6.0 engines in the Ford's and could leave me stranded....if other's can comment on this that would be great?!?

Otherwise back to looking at the Liberty CRD's. The only thing keeping me from buying is the smaller interior room and questionable reliability over 100K. I talked to one person at a diesel rally this weekend (the only one to show up with a Liberty CRD...) and he has 134K and outside of the GDE tune it's been running great and consistently getting 30 - 38 MPG. I can almost live with that even though I'll know when I'll need a haircut when my hair starts touching the headliner when driving.....

Stuck between a Liberty or Excursion?

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