I think it is time to hang up the CRD cap

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

We love our liberty, and really want to keep it forever. I love working on my own vehicles and do as much work as I can, but this Jeep is getting me down. I just finished replacing the tensioner, belt and alternator, and just a few weeks ago a half shaft, upper ball joint, strut and coil spring, with the other half shaft, strut and coil spring left to go. I have a torque converter sitting on the shelf needing to be put in, and needing the transmission filters changed to as I have the drain back issue. The Jeep has 165,000 miles on it with my wife taking a job 40 miles away we will be getting to another timing belt change sooner than later. Her working locally and before we had our daughter it was no problem if one of our vehicles was down for a few days, but with me driving a Chevy S10, , my wife being claustrophobic(she will almost have a panic attack in the jump seat because our daughter rides up front in a car seat), and her working 40 miles away we cannot afford to have the Jeep down for a long period of time. Hearing the hissing coming out of the coolant tank after I let it idle cold for a few seconds has almost pushed me over the edge. :5SHOTS:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:00 pm

Your post fills me with confidence that I made the right decision in buying a CRD.

Dibs on torque converter.

It doesn't sound like its necessarily the vehicle, but the mileage. They seem like issues I have seen in all the other cars i have had with that kind of mileage. Brake calipers seizing, transmissions failing, half shafts, worn out struts, Alternator freezing, AC compressor failure, egr valve failures, O2 sensors, wheel speed sensors, brake lines rotting out. . . those are the issues I have had with my Honda CR-V and Chevy Astro Van.

click23 · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 9:22 am **Posts:** 309

mass-hole wrote:

It doesn't sound like its necessarily the vehicle, but the mileage. They seem like issues I have seen in all the other cars i have had with that kind of mileage. Brake calipers seizing, transmissions failing, half shafts, worn out struts, Alternator freezing, AC compressor failure, egr valve failures, O2 sensors, wheel speed sensors, brake lines rotting out. . . those are the issues I have had with my Honda CR-V and Chevy Astro Van.

You are correct these are issues that any 8 year old vehicle could have, the problem is that we are the ugly,smelly, red headed step children of Chrysler. We have very little dealer support, an engine that after a few years has become evident that their were some design issues from VM, and the cost of some parts make you shake your head. $100 for a thermostat????

(No offence to ugly,smelly, red headed step children here.)

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:31 pm

click23 wrote:

mass-hole wrote:

It doesn't sound like its necessarily the vehicle, but the mileage. They seem like issues I have seen in all the other cars i have had with that kind of mileage. Brake calipers seizing, transmissions failing, half shafts, worn out struts, Alternator freezing, AC compressor failure, egr valve failures, O2 sensors, wheel speed sensors, brake lines rotting out. . . those are the issues I have had with my Honda CR-V and Chevy Astro Van.

You are correct these are issues that any 8 year old vehicle could have, the problem is that we are the ugly,smelly, red headed step children of Chrysler. We have very little dealer support, an engine that after a few years has become evident that their were some design issues from VM, and the cost of some parts make you shake your head. $100 for a thermostat????

(No offence to ugly,smelly, red headed step children here.)

Mines pretty ugly and smelly too

LS12FAST4U · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:02 pm

Any vehicle with 165k miles is going to need everything your explaining. Its not a jeep thing its a car thing. All cars with 165k will need fluids and filters and suspension parts.

user113 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:52 pm

As far as I'm concerned, it's way more fun than a car payment (I do have a back-up car with 213K miles on it that's also paid off :BANANA:

and therefore occasionally needing some obscure part :banghead:

) and besides, waiting for the next thing to break is pretty exciting, too :-)r

.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:27 am

user113 wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, it's way more fun than a car payment (I do have a back-up car with 213K miles on it that's also paid off :BANANA:

and therefore occasionally needing some obscure part :banghead:

) and besides, waiting for the next thing to break is pretty exciting, too :-)r

.

Lol, that's funny. But I agree, no more payments for me either... Was thinking to get a new golf tdi w manual, then realized I'll have to drive the heck out of it to really worth the investment. Better stick with liberty and fix the heck of it than have another payment.

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

thermorex wrote:

user113 wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, it's way more fun than a car payment (I do have a back-up car with 213K miles on it that's also paid off :BANANA:

and therefore occasionally needing some obscure part :banghead:

) and besides, waiting for the next thing to break is pretty exciting, too :-)r

.

Lol, that's funny. But I agree, no more payments for me either... Was thinking to get a new golf tdi w manual, then realized I'll have to drive the heck out of it to really worth the investment. Better stick with liberty and fix the heck of it than have another payment.

"Drive the heck out of it"...exactly why you should get a TDI. A TDI encourages you to go places, do things, literally drive the heck out of it. Plus, at 165k miles a TDI won't need much of the stuff listed above.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:13 am

My current TDI has 275k miles... And hasn't needed much of anything on that list either.
I will say that the ALH engine is a stout little beast, much stronger than the newer engines that can eat a fuel pump ($$$$$) with just a tiny amount of fuel contamination.

However, my CRD never went more than 30k miles without needing a major repair, and killed 2 engines in 134k miles. I've NEVER had another vehicle so fragile and unreliable. No, I wasn't feeding it rocks and twigs for fuel either. Do what you have to for your family, but when it has cost you enough money, it is time for a change in vehicle.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Are there any other engines that can be swapped into these Jeeps?

They put Cummins in GM's and Fords.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Cevans and Geordi, I totally agree, vw tdi is indeed a reliable engine. But they've been making diesels since late 70... My dad has one tdi from 2002 and he didn't even know he has to change the timing belt, well over 100k... Lol. That thing keeps going and going. But... You can't go through a ditch, you can't go through 2-3 ft of snow, through mud or rough terrain either. That's why I love this piece of junk. And that's why I'm researching the 3.0 turbo diesel from Mercedes for a swap in my Cherokee. No computers, no timing belt, no drama, one of the best diesels in the world.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:21 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

Are there any other engines that can be swapped into these Jeeps?

They put Cummins in GM's and Fords.

I think the Mercedes 3.0 om617 or om602 would be a good candidate, though it may be a little long with its 5 cyl. You'll need a different transmission I guess (or a genius in electronics) since 545rfe is fully electronic.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:38 pm

With enough skill, patience, and money you can swap any engine you want into the Liberty.
But is sure wont be easy.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:48 pm

Thermorex, I'd be interested in hearing more about this merc engine... You say it will fit in a Cherokee? What year? I have a 97 Grand Cherokee with the v8 gas in it right now, and I'd love to be able to do an EASY conversion to a mechanical diesel. I want to retain the transmission and the transfer case, but I believe that transmission is all mechanical and torque-controlled anyway. I do not believe there is a separate TCM in there.

How much, how big / heavy? Will it bolt to a Mopar transmission?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:24 pm

geordi wrote:

Thermorex, I'd be interested in hearing more about this merc engine... You say it will fit in a Cherokee? What year? I have a 97 Grand Cherokee with the v8 gas in it right now, and I'd love to be able to do an EASY conversion to a mechanical diesel. I want to retain the transmission and the transfer case, but I believe that transmission is all mechanical and torque-controlled anyway. I do not believe there is a separate TCM in there.

How much, how big / heavy? Will it bolt to a Mopar transmission?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Geordi, at the time I don't know much either. I have a friend with a 300sd from 82 and he wants to sell it. I'm researching the topic as I understand there are different engine mounts, transmission adapters at least compared to stock jeep (I think that would be the most costly part of the project, aside buying the engine) . The Cherokee has the aw4 transmission, which is also electronically controlled, but there are kits available to make it full manual (sequential switch 1-4 with option to lock converter on any gear) . Not sure what transmission you have, but for both xj and zj an ax15 manual would work, if you don't want the aw4. Both as I know have the same housing bell.

The om617 - 5 cyl Mercedes td from 80s had been successfully swapped in Cherokee, I just need to see/research under what condition. I'd like to keep the aw4, it's a decent transmission if you keep it cool and for offroad autos are better, at least for me. Having an old GC (guess it's a zj), I'd be inclined to say that what works for me, should work for you too. I'll have to do the research anyway, so I'll let you know for sure what I find.

Om617 is definitely heavier than the 4.0 on my Cherokee, I need new coils and shocks for sure, but that would be the easy part. Oil pan may hit the axle with stock suspension. Electric is tedious but not hard since there are not too many computers controlling the dashboard on old Jeeps as I know, worse case some new gauges could be required, which is not a big deal. Being an old diesel, you only need one wire for the electric valve on the pump and another one for glow plugs, and this is pretty much all you need to start that engine. Those Mercedes engines are known to last way pass 500k, some getting to even 1 million. Average is about 24 if you drive normally and 30+ if you drive like a grandma.

Finding an engine may be challenging a bit, but for few thousands you can get the whole car, lol, about the same amount one spends with crd maintenance...

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:19 pm

I will have to research this too, I'm not 100% certain which transmission I have in the Grand Cherokee.

RacerTracer is pushing me to lose my mind and get another Liberty CRD. Before I do that, I would need to have my head examined!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:29 pm

thermorex wrote:

geordi wrote:

Thermorex, I'd be interested in hearing more about this merc engine... You say it will fit in a Cherokee? What year? I have a 97 Grand Cherokee with the v8 gas in it right now, and I'd love to be able to do an EASY conversion to a mechanical diesel. I want to retain the transmission and the transfer case, but I believe that transmission is all mechanical and torque-controlled anyway. I do not believe there is a separate TCM in there.

How much, how big / heavy? Will it bolt to a Mopar transmission?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Geordi, at the time I don't know much either. I have a friend with a 300sd from 82 and he wants to sell it. I'm researching the topic as I understand there are different engine mounts, transmission adapters at least compared to stock jeep (I think that would be the most costly part of the project, aside buying the engine) . The Cherokee has the aw4 transmission, which is also electronically controlled, but there are kits available to make it full manual (sequential switch 1-4 with option to lock converter on any gear) . Not sure what transmission you have, but for both xj and zj an ax15 manual would work, if you don't want the aw4. Both as I know have the same housing bell.

The om617 - 5 cyl Mercedes td from 80s had been successfully swapped in Cherokee, I just need to see/research under what condition. I'd like to keep the aw4, it's a decent transmission if you keep it cool and for offroad autos are better, at least for me. Having an old GC (guess it's a zj), I'd be inclined to say that what works for me, should work for you too. I'll have to do the research anyway, so I'll let you know for sure what I find.

Om617 is definitely heavier than the 4.0 on my Cherokee, I need new coils and shocks for sure, but that would be the easy part. Oil pan may hit the axle with stock suspension. Electric is tedious but not hard since there are not too many computers controlling the dashboard on old Jeeps as I know, worse case some new gauges could be required, which is not a big deal. Being an old diesel, you only need one wire for the electric valve on the pump and another one for glow plugs, and this is pretty much all you need to start that engine. Those Mercedes engines are known to last way pass 500k, some getting to even 1 million. Average is about 24 if you drive normally and 30+ if you drive like a grandma.

Finding an engine may be challenging a bit, but for few thousands you can get the whole car, lol, about the same amount one spends with crd maintenance...

FYI the 00-04 WJ with the diesel option used the OM647, which is very similar to the 617. I think it would be a cool project to source the WJ diesel engine and trans from the UK and swap into a fancy WJ with a crapped out V8.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:48 am

Sir Sam wrote:

thermorex wrote:

geordi wrote:

Thermorex, I'd be interested in hearing more about this merc engine... You say it will fit in a Cherokee? What year? I have a 97 Grand Cherokee with the v8 gas in it right now, and I'd love to be able to do an EASY conversion to a mechanical diesel. I want to retain the transmission and the transfer case, but I believe that transmission is all mechanical and torque-controlled anyway. I do not believe there is a separate TCM in there.

How much, how big / heavy? Will it bolt to a Mopar transmission?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Geordi, at the time I don't know much either. I have a friend with a 300sd from 82 and he wants to sell it. I'm researching the topic as I understand there are different engine mounts, transmission adapters at least compared to stock jeep (I think that would be the most costly part of the project, aside buying the engine) . The Cherokee has the aw4 transmission, which is also electronically controlled, but there are kits available to make it full manual (sequential switch 1-4 with option to lock converter on any gear) . Not sure what transmission you have, but for both xj and zj an ax15 manual would work, if you don't want the aw4. Both as I know have the same housing bell.

The om617 - 5 cyl Mercedes td from 80s had been successfully swapped in Cherokee, I just need to see/research under what condition. I'd like to keep the aw4, it's a decent transmission if you keep it cool and for offroad autos are better, at least for me. Having an old GC (guess it's a zj), I'd be inclined to say that what works for me, should work for you too. I'll have to do the research anyway, so I'll let you know for sure what I find.

Om617 is definitely heavier than the 4.0 on my Cherokee, I need new coils and shocks for sure, but that would be the easy part. Oil pan may hit the axle with stock suspension. Electric is tedious but not hard since there are not too many computers controlling the dashboard on old Jeeps as I know, worse case some new gauges could be required, which is not a big deal. Being an old diesel, you only need one wire for the electric valve on the pump and another one for glow plugs, and this is pretty much all you need to start that engine. Those Mercedes engines are known to last way pass 500k, some getting to even 1 million. Average is about 24 if you drive normally and 30+ if you drive like a grandma.

Finding an engine may be challenging a bit, but for few thousands you can get the whole car, lol, about the same amount one spends with crd maintenance...

FYI the 00-04 WJ with the diesel option used the OM647, which is very similar to the 617. I think it would be a cool project to source the WJ diesel engine and trans from the UK and swap into a fancy WJ with a crapped out V8.

My goal is to be "computer free". I'm so sick and tired of troubleshooting sensors, connectors, etc. I miss the good old engines where just some knowledge/experience is all you need to fix it. The good thing about your suggestion is that you don't need to re-invent the wheel, probably the engine swap would be much easier. It's definitely worth considering, especially for a wj owner.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:54 am

flash7210 wrote:

With enough skill, patience, and money you can swap any engine you want into the Liberty.
But is sure wont be easy.

My main concern is the computer stuff and having everything work when I was done. I would like to swap in a good diesel engine and transmission that is not so prone to problems, will deliver good fuel mileage and will run for 500,000 miles.

I put 800,000 miles on my 89 C2500 GMC and have about 300,000 on 4 other 6.5 diesels. I want something with that level of dependability.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:56 am

I've asked before, is there a way to get a good engine imported?

Sir Sam wrote:

thermorex wrote:

geordi wrote:

Thermorex, I'd be interested in hearing more about this merc engine... You say it will fit in a Cherokee? What year? I have a 97 Grand Cherokee with the v8 gas in it right now, and I'd love to be able to do an EASY conversion to a mechanical diesel. I want to retain the transmission and the transfer case, but I believe that transmission is all mechanical and torque-controlled anyway. I do not believe there is a separate TCM in there.

How much, how big / heavy? Will it bolt to a Mopar transmission?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Geordi, at the time I don't know much either. I have a friend with a 300sd from 82 and he wants to sell it. I'm researching the topic as I understand there are different engine mounts, transmission adapters at least compared to stock jeep (I think that would be the most costly part of the project, aside buying the engine) . The Cherokee has the aw4 transmission, which is also electronically controlled, but there are kits available to make it full manual (sequential switch 1-4 with option to lock converter on any gear) . Not sure what transmission you have, but for both xj and zj an ax15 manual would work, if you don't want the aw4. Both as I know have the same housing bell.

The om617 - 5 cyl Mercedes td from 80s had been successfully swapped in Cherokee, I just need to see/research under what condition. I'd like to keep the aw4, it's a decent transmission if you keep it cool and for offroad autos are better, at least for me. Having an old GC (guess it's a zj), I'd be inclined to say that what works for me, should work for you too. I'll have to do the research anyway, so I'll let you know for sure what I find.

Om617 is definitely heavier than the 4.0 on my Cherokee, I need new coils and shocks for sure, but that would be the easy part. Oil pan may hit the axle with stock suspension. Electric is tedious but not hard since there are not too many computers controlling the dashboard on old Jeeps as I know, worse case some new gauges could be required, which is not a big deal. Being an old diesel, you only need one wire for the electric valve on the pump and another one for glow plugs, and this is pretty much all you need to start that engine. Those Mercedes engines are known to last way pass 500k, some getting to even 1 million. Average is about 24 if you drive normally and 30+ if you drive like a grandma.

Finding an engine may be challenging a bit, but for few thousands you can get the whole car, lol, about the same amount one spends with crd maintenance...

FYI the 00-04 WJ with the diesel option used the OM647, which is very similar to the 617. I think it would be a cool project to source the WJ diesel engine and trans from the UK and swap into a fancy WJ with a crapped out V8.

I think it is time to hang up the CRD cap

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