Noob planning to buy CRD

ekendall1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:24 pm

I am a complete noob to the CRD and Im planning to buy one in the near future. I have read the noob guide but I still have 3 questions....

1. What kind of thing should I look for during the test drive?

2. I contacted one dealer who just very recently put a CRD Liberty up for sale. The salesman told me when I called them that they are searching for the cause of a CEL and that there is an "aftermarket reservoir" in the back cargo area that they think may be the cause. What could this reservoir be? I'm thinking possibly water/meth injection but I am just trying to get ideas prior to going to look at it. The dealer will not sell it with the CEL so i have a little bit until they call me to come look at it.

3. Is there any way to tell if a tune is still on the vehicle while test driving?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

ekendall1 wrote:

2. I contacted one dealer who just very recently put a CRD Liberty up for sale. The salesman told me when I called them that they are searching for the cause of a CEL and that there is an "aftermarket reservoir" in the back cargo area that they think may be the cause. What could this reservoir be?

A vegetable (SVO) oil tank? A used motor oil (WMO) tank?

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=61532

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:43 pm

1. usual stuff or any vehicle. Plus a) check instrument cluster for proper function (hold the trip odometer button while turning the ignition on to cycle through all bulbs and gauges. The 2006 FSM refers to this as the Instrument Cluster Self Test and beginning on page 8J-65 and scattered thru various pages to 8J-87 discusses what the test is supposed to do with respect to various lights and gauges on the dash); b) have them pull airbox to turbo hose and check impeller for play (should be no more than slight fore/aft and bare perceptible side to side); c) request documentation of when and at what mileage the timing belt was done if no documentation price should be discounted at least $1,500 (NOTE - we "looked" at it and it's fine doesn't cut it as you cannot see it to "look" at and looks don't tell anything); d) at idle with flashlight look down past airbox at serpentine belt tensioner (just to right and above power steering pulley) make sure it's not "leaning" into PS pulley and that it's no more than =barely twitching (leaning=bad tensioner; noticeable bouncing=bad alternator decoupler pulley); e) do modestly vigorous go pedal application from full stop (should be slight turbo lag and not "too" much black smoke); f) coolant reservoir fluid should be light red/pink - green is bad; g) ideally get to the vehicle when engine is cold, idle for 10-15 seconds, shut down, open coolant reservoir cap (lots of pressure suggests head gasket leak). I'm sure others will add comments.
2. what 95Z28A4 says.
3. Keith at GDE can tell based on VIN if it has one of their tunes. Typically if it does at crank up RPM goes to ca. 1,000 and then drops back but I'm not positive this is a really good indicator.

ekendall1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:02 pm

Thanks guys. If the tank does wind up being some form of biodiesel, if the dealership winds up removing that system, would there be anything i should look out for with it having that conversion on? (i.e.- does running this conversion screw anything up that I shouldn't buy the car because of?) I do not want to mess with biodiesel. In fact this would be my first diesel vehicle...

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:16 pm

Running a high % of bio shouldn't hurt anything although starting to do so on an older engine can apparently kick loose gunk in the fuel system such that when you first start there may need to be frequent fuel filter changes due to clogged filters. If the thing in the back is a veggie tank then I presume there is some sort of switch and associated fuel lines that allow on the start on diesel and get the engine warm before switching over. PM or email Greasey Bob for more information.

ekendall1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:53 pm

Thanks again. I'm thinking it was a veggie tank. In one of the pictures there was a switch on the lower part of the dash under the steering wheel with labeling that said On and Drain.

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:29 pm

why you guys planning to by this vehicle used , don't you see what we went through on this forum it design to last only 100000, miles after that many miles you need to replace almost every part of it , i replaced over 60% still working on it , never ends , and i was diesel tech and is hard n me imagine if I'm paying labor , parts alone cost more then i spend on 4 jettas tdi and then each went over 400 000 km with no problem ,again it is nice jeep i like driving it ( spare vehicle ) but man is costly $$$$$$$

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:07 pm

ekendall1 wrote:

Thanks again. I'm thinking it was a veggie tank. In one of the pictures there was a switch on the lower part of the dash under the steering wheel with labeling that said On and Drain.

That does seem to suggest a waste oil system, but it is not assured. Where are you located? I am the travelling tech for these, and if I am going to be nearby this vehicle, I could assist you in giving it a once-over if you are serious about it. Dual-tank vehicles don't have to be used with the second fuel source, you can run them just fine on plain diesel. Biodiesel is not waste oil, and does not require any "conversion" or separate tanks. Biodiesel is actually preferred for most diesels because it has benefits in performance and economy at modest percentages. The fuel itself has been changed, you as a user just put it in the normal fuel tank and drive.

Waste oil systems require that you start the vehicle on regular diesel, and when the coolant is up to temperature, you flip a switch to transfer to the now-heated alternate fuel. Before you get where you are going, you have to switch back to regular diesel to "purge" the lines of the alternate fuel and then you stop the vehicle with regular diesel. It can be very economical if you have a good source of oil to use - especially if that source is free - but it does require some awareness of how you are using the vehicle.

I do not know about vehicle durability with these systems, I think it will depend heavily on the quality of the source fuel and how well it is filtered.

Brasher · **Joined:** Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:02 pm **Posts:** 80

I'm going to tell you something that I wished someone here would have told me: Do not buy one of these. I know owning a diesel Jeep seems awesome. It's different. It's a real SUV that can get mid 20's mileage in mixed driving conditions. Blah Blah Blah.

Don't buy into it.

If you're lucky you'll only have to do major internal top end engine repair somewhere between 110k-150k miles ($700 just in parts, $3,000 including labor), replace the torque converter (about a $500 part these days - for the cheap one), buy about $1,000 worth of parts (Charge air hoses, EGR bypass, GDE Ecotune) just to make it "run like it should from the factory". Don't forget to include "standard" Liberty issues (front drive shafts, lower ball joints, rear ball joint).

If you're unlucky, you get all of the above PLUS a bonus turbo failure at around 130k that, best case scenario only runs $1,100 in parts, worst case trashes the entire motor due to oil starvation.

The worst of luck guys have had the above happen before they even hit 100k.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:07 am

I happen to love my Jeep Liberty CRD.
I've had a few problems here and there but nothing I couldn't fix myself.
That said, if you have to rely on someone else to fix yours, it can be a very expensive vehicle to own.
Dont forget that this thing is a Jeep. All Jeeps have parts that wear out and break.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:19 pm

If you've done your research properly you should have come to the conclusion that this vehicle has more than its fair share of issues, high parts cost and scant parts availability. One piece of wisdom you should have taken away is - don't trust the dealer, he says he's gonna fix it but probably doesn't have the know how. He does, however, know how to remove your tune.

Although the CRD has unconditional love from many here on L.O.S.T. there are also plenty of haters who will openly tell the wannabes "don't do it". Many of these wannabes change their minds and we never hear from them again, others buy and have a favourable experience while others buy and wish they hadn't after they've spent more on repairs than the vehicle cost them. They're the ones that come back here and say "I wished someone here would have told me: Do not buy one of these".

One thing I can say is I wouldn't rely on it as a daily driver or only vehicle. Mine has become a bit of a hobby/recreational vehicle but I can honestly say that knowing what I know now I would never have bought one new. That doesn't mean that I haven't enjoyed owning it but there are other fun vehicles out there that are a lot less hassle to own.

Now, if your other vehicle is a chip wagon it the CRD may be a good buy.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:09 pm

I would not buy a crd with a veggie oil tank from an unknown person. No way. That is a much different animal from biodiesel. You could be looking at injector, cp3, or bearing problems if not implemented and maintained properly.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:25 pm

CATCRD wrote:

I would not buy a crd with a veggie oil tank from an unknown person. No way. That is a much different animal from biodiesel. You could be looking at injector, cp3, or bearing problems if not implemented and maintained properly.

The information he has gotten from the dealer suggests that the vehicle needs in excess of 6k of repair work, which is 90% of what they are currently asking for it. I have sent him a message that I am willing to go look at it to give him an impartial report of the actual vehicle, but my advice is to walk away at this time. This does not seem like a good option for anyone on this group, and certainly not someone without extensive experience with a CRD.

For the record - No way at all would I be interested in picking up a WVO vehicle, but I am curious where Greasey Bob is on this, this may be one he is familiar with.

ekendall1 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:40 am

Once again, thanks everyone for all of your advice! As much as I love the concept of this vehicle (high MPG with true 4x4 capabilities) I am not sure the potential cost of maintenance and repair is worth my while. I am mainly looking for a vehicle to get me through winter in MD and driving around a farm my family owns, however, I drive a ton for work (150 miles per day) and this platform seemed like the best candidate with it being a diesel (typically lasts longer than gas motor) and 4x4. I already have another "project/summer" car (2013 Genesis Coupe) that I would like to keep nice and sink my extra money into.

Dirtmover, I had done my research prior to making this post and I knew all the problems people have had with this platform. I just love the concept and wish that Jeep had made a more reliable vehicle past the 100K mile mark. I made this post to see if the members of the forum would be able to give me any form of positive feedback that would allow me to make the decision to buy a CRD.

Geordi, thanks for the offer but I do not believe I will be looking at the CRD with the "alleged" WVO tank in it.

If there is anyone that could give me assurance that this vehicle is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be then I would gladly continue to search for one.

With all of this being said, would anyone like to suggest any other vehicle I should be looking at :mrgreen:

. My preferences are as follows:

1. 4x4 or AWD
2. Decent power (around V6 numbers)
3. Decent fuel mileage
4. SUV or Small Truck

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:21 am

Sorry - This is why I shouldn't be on the internet late at night while also watching TV... There are two different members and two different CRDs that they were looking at, and I managed to confuse both of them. oops.

Ekendall: With the list you are looking for, 4x4, power, fuel mileage, and an SUV or small truck... There really isn't anything available other than the CRD, or a VW Touareg TDI from ~2004, or the newest Ram ecodiesels. If price is an issue (when is it not?) then the CRD kinda is the only option.

Keep looking, you will find a better option out there.

Now I need to go message the other member and see how I stuffed that one up.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:52 pm

ekendall1 wrote:

With all of this being said, would anyone like to suggest any other vehicle I should be looking at :mrgreen:

. My preferences are as follows:

1. 4x4 or AWD
2. Decent power (around V6 numbers)
3. Decent fuel mileage
4. SUV or Small Truck

5. Great towing capacity for it size
6. Great handling in winter conditions (with appropriate tires)
7. Minimal premium over the cost of the gas version

Yeah, yeah, this list is what sucked us all in. It's probably the only vehicle that has all these characteristics but it's sadly let down by reliability, maintenance costs and "stock" design defects. They also hate the cold. With a significant hit to the mpg, typically higher seasonal diesel costs and that horrible clatter in the negative double digits I don't even bother running mine in the winter months any more.

Now, if you can pick one up at the right price, can tolerate some down time and don't mind taking some risk on something bad going wrong it could still work out for you given any choice meeting your preference will probably cost significantly more up front.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:10 pm

dirtmover wrote:

ekendall1 wrote:

With all of this being said, would anyone like to suggest any other vehicle I should be looking at :mrgreen:

. My preferences are as follows:

1. 4x4 or AWD
2. Decent power (around V6 numbers)
3. Decent fuel mileage
4. SUV or Small Truck

5. Great towing capacity for it size
6. Great handling in winter conditions (with appropriate tires)
7. Minimal premium over the cost of the gas version

1995 Ford F-150 4x4 with the 300ci inline 6 and preferably a manual transmission.

Not mine but sometimes I wish I had one.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:35 pm

I say you get a CRD, but one that someone has already installed the ARP head studs, new timing set, rockers. All the other mods are cheap and optional. You can do a self-tune and get rid of the EGR, or add a new torque converter and GDE tune if you want the maximum efficiency. Or, if you have the skills. Pick up one with broken rockers and do the work yourself. Either way, you can have an amazing SUV for 10k or less, and then if you're lucky the fuel savings may pay you dividends over the years :2cents:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:59 pm

I would say go for it if you have some free time to wrench, and especially if you have another vehicle you can depend on. That is my biggest problem at this point, I am afraid to dig into anything big without a 3rd car to drive if it takes longer than a weekend. I dont think anything that would need to be done is particularly difficult, just time consuming. A lot of the repair/upgrades on this are pretty easy and straight forward.

Silicone CAC - super easy
Lift pump - Easy, just time consuming if your a psycho, perfectionist engineer like me
GDE Tune - Easy
Torque converter - I haven't done it yet, so I wont say this is easy but I have pulled a 2006 Pontiac GTO transmission, laying on a piece of plywood in my parents gravel driveway, using an ATV jack and ratchet straps in Mid-Novermber massachusetts. If you have a garage and some jack stands I cant see this being that horrible.

By far the most obnoxious things I have done on this thing were installing the Weeks stage 1 & 2 kits just because its very tight where you need to get your hands and wrenches.

As far as the jeep itself? I daily drive a pretty well equipped 2014 F150 thats like driving around in my living room, yet I still love getting into the CRD despite the interior panels rattling, the rear view mirror shaking from the diesel idle at stop lights and the spartan interior(i've got cloth). Its just a cool vehicle. But I am all about unique cars like this. If has also never let me down. Before the lift pump it would occasionally have troubles starting if I left it sitting for days on end but usually all I had to do was push primer pump a few times to get fuel back to the injection pump and it would fire right up. My wife has daily driven it for a year without one issue except for popping the hot side CAC hose that I just had off and had not properly retightened.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:17 pm

It's really a hit or miss I think with these crd's. I currently have 3 of these. (Hi, I'm josh and I'm a crd'aholic)

Knock on wood, My daily Crd I love and really haven't had any problems with. 1 of them I'm currently doing new head gasket, rockers, arps, tb kit. And the other Id like to beat with a baseball bat.

If the crd bug ever leaves me, I'll prolly go to a tdi for my commuter and then either a 12 valve cummins or 7.3 p-stroke has my tow pig/4x4 rig.

Just brainstorming. Have you looked at a Subaru Outback or even the rare baja they made. They might fit what your need with definitely more dealer support

Noob planning to buy CRD

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