Fixed - CRD just died...will not start....

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

Was running like a top. Maintenance by the book by me!!! (TB, WP, ARP, Weeks (EGR/FCV removal, recent fuel filter change), etc).

Guess I will start with fuel (Injectors, fuel flow)

Could it be a lift pump?

My oil was low unfortunately. Could low oil have caused something?

Not sure where to head next.

Thoughts?

________
Thanks all. It was the heating element in the OEM original fuel head. I took the advice of several folks here and filled the jack with 2-part JBWeld epoxy. I then bled the air out by priming and bleeding and it started right up. I have a CEL but that is to be expected. I have ordered a updated OEM fuel head and will take the advice of those here and buy/install a lift pump.

What pressure range should I look for in a Lift Pump?? I thought i read somewhere where that it should be between 4-5 PSI. Thoughts?

APC9199 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:32 pm

taroo wrote:

Was running like a top. Maintenance by the book by me!!! (TB, WP, ARP, Weeks (EGR/FCV removal, recent fuel filter change), etc).

Guess I will start with fuel (Injectors, fuel flow)

Could it be a lift pump?

My oil was low unfortunately. Could low oil have caused something?

Not sure where to head next.

Thoughts?

Does it crank? Any strange noises? anything out of the ordinary like outside temperature, etc? The pro's will chime in soon, but they are going to need a lot more info to get you set in the right direction. Air in fuel is a good place to start, but your description is a little vague to point you in the right direction.

joe_ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:18 pm

Are there any codes? Were there any unusual noises when it died? Does it sound normal when you try to start it, or does it sound like one or more cylinders aren't building up pressure?

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

joe_ wrote:

Are there any codes? Were there any unusual noises when it died? Does it sound normal when you try to start it, or does it sound like one or more cylinders aren't building up pressure?

Just ran AutoEnginuity (which I use to diagnose/graph, etc) and have NO trouble codes.

It cranks fine, no grinding, no knocking, etc.

I had just started it to drive to work and it just died half way out the garage. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Thoughts?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:00 pm

My first thought would be air in fuel.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

flash7210 wrote:

My first thought would be air in fuel.

I did have my wife crank the engine as I cracked the input line to the fuel rail.

It did not spew diesel as I thought it may/should (?) and I did see bubbles. I never got/saw diesel flowing rapidly as I would expect. However, I am not sure what I should see if I crack the input line to the fuel rail. Do you know if I should see lots of fuel flowing or just a dribble?

Hmmm...my gut tells me it is a fuel problem and I know that could range from the fuel pump (tear down to TB) to sensors, etc.

Need my DD back by Monday!

pjigar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:31 pm

Don't forget the crank shaft sensor which does not generate any code lot of times.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

pjigar wrote:

Don't forget the crank shaft sensor which does not generate any code lot of times.

Could this be it?? I saw fuel on the fuel heater wires (see pic) and then pulled the fuel heater plug (on fuel head) and it is burned (see pic). I assume this is sucking air into the system.

Thoughts?

pjigar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:01 pm

Looks like you have gen 1 fuel head. Burned gen 1 fuel heads are known for ingesting air. I would upgrade with gen 2 fuel head to rule out this possibility and to have peace of mind in future.

pjigar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:04 pm

IF you are going to replace the fuel head then temporary solution would be to epoxy/jb weld the heater connector on the fuel head. You may get CEL if you don't have heater connector attached.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

pjigar wrote:

IF you are going to replace the fuel head then temporary solution would be to epoxy/jb weld the heater connector on the fuel head. You may get CEL if you don't have heater connector attached.

Yep...gen 1. I will order a new one now. Read that many use Racor but I will research.
Great idea to epoxy with JBweld. Let's see!
I am in the eye of the Washington DC area snow storm...aaarrgghh.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:50 pm

taroo wrote:

pjigar wrote:

IF you are going to replace the fuel head then temporary solution would be to epoxy/jb weld the heater connector on the fuel head. You may get CEL if you don't have heater connector attached.

Yep...gen 1. I will order a new one now. Read that many use Racor but I will research.
Great idea to epoxy with JBweld. Let's see!
I am in the eye of the Washington DC area snow storm...aaarrgghh.

I would go Racor or the Dodge. I would definitely go with a top loader. They may be easier to access than an OEM anyway.

A lift pump Might also cure your ills until you can get the fuel head squared away.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:20 pm

A Lift pump would be a great addition, but in the meantime, clean the affected area with some carb or brake spray cleaner and then fill the area full with some RTV silicone and let it cure for at least 4 hours. Both items available at any auto parts store! This will stop any air ingestion at that location till you can get a new fuel head and possibly install a lift pump and get you back going.... :wink:

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:16 am

WWDiesel wrote:

A Lift pump would be a great addition, but in the meantime, clean the affected area with some carb or brake spray cleaner and then fill the area full with some RTV silicone and let it cure for at least 4 hours. Both items available at any auto parts store! This will stop any air ingestion at that location till you can get a new fuel head and possibly install a lift pump and get you back going.... :wink:

It might be close to the same time to install an AC Delco or GM lift pump from a 1993 GM 6.5 diesel. They sell Dorman and other hose barbs to screw into each end of the lift pump - same as the GM fuel filters that are about the same size,

If you go the 6.5 diesel lift pump route use a GM or AC Delco lift pump for a 1993 6.5 diesel. If they ask which vehicle. Just say 1993 C2500 6.5 diesel

I never had good performance or longevity out of the few aftermarket lift pumps of this style that I tried over the years.

This is a flow through on fail lift pump.

If you install a lift pump, make sure it is flow through on fail or you will definitely be stuck where you are if you have an issue with it.

Dorman has hose adapters for the lift pump.

Dorman 800-170 3/8" x 4" Steel Fuel Line Repair

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIXQ6C

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9 ... detailpage

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:49 pm

CARTER P76148M in tank fuel pump module is the part number if you decide to go the in tank lift pump route....
Google, the part number, there are many places to purchase this pump.... :google:

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

WWDiesel wrote:

A Lift pump would be a great addition, but in the meantime, clean the affected area with some carb or brake spray cleaner and then fill the area full with some RTV silicone and let it cure for at least 4 hours. Both items available at any auto parts store! This will stop any air ingestion at that location till you can get a new fuel head and possibly install a lift pump and get you back going.... :wink:

Thanks much! It was the heating element in the OEM original fuel head. I took your advice filled the jack with 2-part JBWeld epoxy. I then bled the air out by priming and bleeding and it started right up. I have a CEL but that is to be expected. I have ordered a updated OEM fuel head and will take the advice and buy/install a lift pump.

What pressure range should I look for in a Lift Pump?? I thought i read somewhere where that it should be between 4-5 PSI. Thoughts?

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

WWDiesel wrote:

CARTER P76148M in tank fuel pump module is the part number if you decide to go the in tank lift pump route....
Google, the part number, there are many places to purchase this pump.... :google:

Looks like that is a OE replacement with same specs. how is that an improvement over my working original?

ebbnflow · **Posted:** Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:06 am

The CRD does not come from the factory with a lift pump. So add one inline or drop the tank and put in OEM or Carter. The intank pump is made for the Dodge Cummins but fits our tank.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

jrsavoie wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

A Lift pump would be a great addition, but in the meantime, clean the affected area with some carb or brake spray cleaner and then fill the area full with some RTV silicone and let it cure for at least 4 hours. Both items available at any auto parts store! This will stop any air ingestion at that location till you can get a new fuel head and possibly install a lift pump and get you back going.... :wink:

It might be close to the same time to install an AC Delco or GM lift pump from a 1993 GM 6.5 diesel. They sell Dorman and other hose barbs to screw into each end of the lift pump - same as the GM fuel filters that are about the same size,

If you go the 6.5 diesel lift pump route use a GM or AC Delco lift pump for a 1993 6.5 diesel. If they ask which vehicle. Just say 1993 C2500 6.5 diesel

I never had good performance or longevity out of the few aftermarket lift pumps of this style that I tried over the years.

This is a flow through on fail lift pump.

If you install a lift pump, make sure it is flow through on fail or you will definitely be stuck where you are if you have an issue with it.

Dorman has hose adapters for the lift pump.

Dorman 800-170 3/8" x 4" Steel Fuel Line Repair

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIXQ6C

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9 ... detailpage

_____

Okay...I like it...Only one question. It has a PSI rating of 10 - 14 PSI. It is unclear to me what the max (if it matters) pressure rated lift pump we should use in the CRD. I read somewhere that 4-5 is the right pressure. Does 14 PSI matter? Will too much pressure matter or do any damage to the CP3 pump?

Thoughts on best pressure of thoughts on whether 14 PSI is too much???

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

ebbnflow wrote:

The CRD does not come from the factory with a lift pump. So add one inline or drop the tank and put in OEM or Carter. The intank pump is made for the Dodge Cummins but fits our tank.

HMmm..okay...your statement seems non sequitur to me. CRD does not come with a lift pump but you say to put in OEM (OEM being what?). By your statement I will assume the Carter intank has a built in lift pump even though it says OEM. Are you saying our CRD has nothing in the tank that pumps????

Fixed - CRD just died...will not start....

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