NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:14 pm

oldnavy wrote:

AndySRT wrote:

well i ended up with a courtsey car. they flashed the update in and the computer in the libby shut down. no CRD till tommorw hopefully :evil:

Improper flash done by tech, he had an interuption of power, improper down load, or failed to follow step by step procedure, to name a few mistakes often done. A near by dealer has a tech that has screwed the flash's of more cars & trucks then they can count, but he's stil there turning a wrench for some reason.

Check out the latest TSB's on Alldata. Issued @ the same time as 18-023-06 was another TSB concerning this problem. Looks like it covers all DC products. I can see where the reflashes can be a PITA for the dealer.

AndySRT · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:05 pm

oldnavy wrote:

AndySRT wrote:

well i ended up with a courtsey car. they flashed the update in and the computer in the libby shut down. no CRD till tommorw hopefully :evil:

Improper flash done by tech, he had an interuption of power, improper down load, or failed to follow step by step procedure, to name a few mistakes often done. A near by dealer has a tech that has screwed the flash's of more cars & trucks then they can count, but he's stil there turning a wrench for some reason.

this sounds like it might of been part of the problem. the service writer was freaking out and said i was the first person to ask to have the flash done. all i have to say was atleast he wasnt giving me excuses and they are contacting STAR in the morning to get this fixed.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:58 pm

I just read some interesting stuff on another site.

Chrysler is redesigning the pump to handle the lower end torque. What I have pieced together from Chrysler customer service and the dealership service manager is that since this transmission came from the gasoline engine line, there is not enough fluid being passed through the CRD transmission because of are power band is on the lower RPM's instead of the higher RPM's. This is causing the shuddering and the torque converter lockup. My Jeep has been down for 2 weeks now due to this part. Jeep has just re-designed the pump and will be sending the new pump out starting next week. So there may be a fix after all.

The site is http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@@.ef1454f/6897 Poke aroud and rad the interesting posts.
So the problem is at 1800 RPM there's not enough fluid pressure to hold the torque put on the clutches. Gassers have their torque at highter RPM's when more fluid pressure and volume is being pumped.

MoLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:52 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

:shock: I just read some interesting stuff on another site.

Chrysler is redesigning the pump to handle the lower end torque. What I have pieced together from Chrysler customer service and the dealership service manager is that since this transmission came from the gasoline engine line, there is not enough fluid being passed through the CRD transmission because of are power band is on the lower RPM's instead of the higher RPM's. This is causing the shuddering and the torque converter lockup. My Jeep has been down for 2 weeks now due to this part. Jeep has just re-designed the pump and will be sending the new pump out starting next week. So there may be a fix after all.

This is kind of interesting, but I have what may be a silly question. Some of the people here who have had flashes say that it takes a few days for the transmission to "learn" your driving habits. It is after that occurs that the shuddering starts back up. This would lead me to think this might be something that could be corrected via a tranny update that allows the transmission to "learn" better.

Of course, playing the devils advocate, the educated transmission could have learned where the shift points should be and as it moves the shift point lower in the band, the mechanical problem starts occurring.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here...

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:07 am

Joe Romas wrote:

:shock: I just read some interesting stuff on another site.

Chrysler is redesigning the pump to handle the lower end torque. What I have pieced together from Chrysler customer service and the dealership service manager is that since this transmission came from the gasoline engine line, there is not enough fluid being passed through the CRD transmission because of are power band is on the lower RPM's instead of the higher RPM's. This is causing the shuddering and the torque converter lockup. My Jeep has been down for 2 weeks now due to this part. Jeep has just re-designed the pump and will be sending the new pump out starting next week. So there may be a fix after all.

The site is http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@@.ef1454f/6897 Poke aroud and rad the interesting posts.
So the problem is at 1800 RPM there's not enough fluid pressure to hold the torque put on the clutches. Gassers have their torque at highter RPM's when more fluid pressure and volume is being pumped.

Take some care at what you have been reading on this site. Worked around too much machinery to believe most of what I read there and this is a good example. Start by stopping the myth that this transmission "came off the gasoline engine line" story. The transmission doesn't know (or care) if it's a gas or diesel hooked to the other end. The only difference would be software programming to control the package. True there are issues with this transmission hardware, issues that I believe DC doesn't fully understand. I don't completly doubt the pump story. My service manager told me my transmission problems may be partially due to a weak pump which is causing issues on this transmission in gasser applications. The weak pump is not a CRD specific issue and I'm confident that DC won't build a pump specifically for the CRD application.

The torque considerations of a diesel vs a gasser happen far below the 1800 RPM level. In addition, this little diesel turns higher RPM's while cruising than many gassers V-8's that would use this same tranny. Most torque converter clutches I have seen are spring loaded, not much diffterent than a pressure plate on a manual tranny. If there is a problem with the TC clutch failing/shuddering it is likely because the the spring rating is too weak. The shrapnel effect is likely from the slipping/grinding clutch, causing abrasive failure of the pump and other components. Unlike older style transmissions, the TC lock-up can happen before high gear and can remain in lock-up through the remaining upshifts. To have an early lock-up and upshift while in lock-up, one must have a strong clutch. One thing you may feel on yours is a rough/irratic/sloppy lock-up if you don't firmly accelerate past @ 35 mph. This is a 3rd gear lock-up (done for fuel economy). I was promised this roughness would be corrected in 18-023-06 reflash.

AndySRT · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:58 am

got mine back today. defintly smoother shifts ect. I'll have to wait and see how it does in the long run.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:18 pm

AndySRT wrote:

got mine back today. defintly smoother shifts ect. I'll have to wait and see how it does in the long run.

I had them do mine since it was in for egr control valve. I had to argue with them to get it done. They started with you don't have the symptoms bs. When it clearly states it improves a host of things and mentions no specific symptom. They claim if they do a TSB and you come back for have same problem then they don't get paid for it. So basically the consumer is the monkey in the middle of DCX and the dealer. So maybe a lot of "bad service issues doesn't fall on the shoulders of the dealer. None the less the consumer should first,

TSB's like this won't get done unless you ask.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

kjfishman wrote:

AndySRT wrote:

got mine back today. defintly smoother shifts ect. I'll have to wait and see how it does in the long run.

I had them do mine since it was in for egr control valve. I had to argue with them to get it done. They started with you don't have the symptoms bs. When it clearly states it improves a host of things and mentions no specific symptom. They claim if they do a TSB and you come back for have same problem then they don't get paid for it. So basically the consumer is the monkey in the middle of DCX and the dealer. So maybe a lot of "bad service issues doesn't fall on the shoulders of the dealer. None the less the consumer should first,

TSB's like this won't get done unless you ask.

Yup, I agree, my dealer has improved a lot only because I hounded them for so long to get them done. Now they don't argue as much. The best way to get them done is to complain that your car has one of the symptoms that the TSB outlines. If the TSB doesn't list specific symptoms, then harass them until you wear them down and they give in. It's much less stress than being broken down in the middle of nowhere from a bad transmission and losing your car for however long it takes them to get the new parts in and do the actual work.

AndySRT · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:52 pm

wow all i had to do was ask when i brought mine in for warentee on my 4x4 shift cable no questions asked. apparently i have a good dealer.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:12 pm

kjfishman wrote:

AndySRT wrote:

got mine back today. defintly smoother shifts ect. I'll have to wait and see how it does in the long run.

I had them do mine since it was in for egr control valve. I had to argue with them to get it done. They started with you don't have the symptoms bs. When it clearly states it improves a host of things and mentions no specific symptom. They claim if they do a TSB and you come back for have same problem then they don't get paid for it. So basically the consumer is the monkey in the middle of DCX and the dealer. So maybe a lot of "bad service issues doesn't fall on the shoulders of the dealer. None the less the consumer should first,

TSB's like this won't get done unless you ask.

What is really insulting is the EGR/FCV repairs throw codes and they need to plug you in to read and clear them. Most of the repair TSB floating around on the CRD start by updating the operating software, then replacing parts. That reflash should be automatic if you are in for EGR issues.

Ripster · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:55 pm

Having had the reflash, there are times this tranny shifts great, like smooth beyond any transmission. Shut it off and
drive it awhile later, does not care how long and rough shifts from 2-3 around 20. That is the only shift I have that
has trouble, for sure you have to move out smartly or it will jerk the heck out of you on the shift.

kingofl337 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:14 am

I just had this TSB preformed from the stock 05 programming. WOW, the diffrence is
great! Jeep shifts alot better and it seems alot more responsive. I'll be intereseted if
it has any effect on MPG.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

What's your build date? If yours is an early 05, the first 2 or 3 flash updates really improved engine performance,smoothness and quietness. The last update on mine took back some of the performance the xx-009-06 provided. After a battery disconnect/reconnect, it's almost back to what it was. The shift pattern seems to hold gears longer now, but the tranny shudder is now worse than it was before the last flash. Always after acceleration to 60-65 then settling back to cruise. I went out this morning and it was pretty rough - jerking and bucking is a better description than shudder now. You have to drive around it speedwise to eliminate the jerking.

alljeep · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:36 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

What's your build date? If yours is an early 05, the first 2 or 3 flash updates really improved engine performance,smoothness and quietness. The last update on mine took back some of the performance the xx-009-06 provided. After a battery disconnect/reconnect, it's almost back to what it was. The shift pattern seems to hold gears longer now, but the tranny shudder is now worse than it was before the last flash. Always after acceleration to 60-65 then settling back to cruise. I went out this morning and it was pretty rough - jerking and bucking is a better description than shudder now. You have to drive around it speedwise to eliminate the jerking.

Makes you wonder what they found wrong with the last TSB to get rid of it after only 3 months. My shudder is always at 52-53mph.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:20 pm

alljeep wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

What's your build date? If yours is an early 05, the first 2 or 3 flash updates really improved engine performance,smoothness and quietness. The last update on mine took back some of the performance the xx-009-06 provided. After a battery disconnect/reconnect, it's almost back to what it was. The shift pattern seems to hold gears longer now, but the tranny shudder is now worse than it was before the last flash. Always after acceleration to 60-65 then settling back to cruise. I went out this morning and it was pretty rough - jerking and bucking is a better description than shudder now. You have to drive around it speedwise to eliminate the jerking.

Makes you wonder what they found wrong with the last TSB to get rid of it after only 3 months. My shudder is always at 52-53mph.

DC wasn't showing their cards when I talked to them. When I mentioned the 35mph rough lock-up, they cut me off in mid-sentence with "we know about that, have a fix for it in the next TSB reflash." I do know someone with an '05 Dodge Ram 3.7 V-6/Auto going through the same suddering, filter TSB, and reflashes. He is arguing with his dealer about the TSB too so it not just a Jeep thing.

kingofl337 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:58 pm

My build date is June 05 and this was the reflash on the computer. I had no previous shuddering
problems and don't have any afterward. Hopefully I won't either

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:59 pm

kingofl337 wrote:

My build date is June 05 and this was the reflash on the computer. I had no previous shuddering
problems and don't have any afterward. Hopefully I won't either

Mine is also a June 05 build date and this is what started my arguments with DC. Started having tranny problems so I took it in for TSB 18-009-06 and got it back with 18-018-05 (outdated). Took it back and raised hell so they found and did 18-009-06 but took a week because they had to replace the TCM to get it to upload. This was a strange argument as they told me they don't actually reference this as a TSB # but what the DC computer chooses to download when they plug-in. You may want to check the TSB sticker that should be on the underside of the hood. Make sure they did the correct reflash.

gd5092 · **Joined:** Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:11 pm **Posts:** 62

Brought it in for a few things, also requested latest TSB for Tranny.
Initially the tech claimed it was in there already, but after handing him the TSB number and
issue date printed of this website he checked again.

He then tried to program it in, but the programmer stopped halfway and errored out, TCM totally dead now.

So bummer to say the least, But a new TCM is on order, hopefully here shortly, with latest software installed!.

-G

Aaaaarhg, TCM will take one week to get here.....

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:48 pm

CONTINUATION FROM WATER SEPARATOR WARNING LIGHT POST

Wow, we came a long way from the water separator light intermittently coming on and off to where we are in a matter of two days.

The littany of items the diesel tech wanted to do that I listed above were put aside no fault of his own.
The diesel tech had all good intentions but when it came down to doing the work, DCX had to be consulted for warranty approval and consultation.

So items like changing the intercooler and the EGR flow control value that were suggested in my previous post as being problems were not even mentioned.

After a 45 minute call involving DCX and the diesel tech from 4:00 to 4:45pm this afternoon. DCX instructed the tech to replace the torque converter and the front pump in the transmission.
At this point it's going to be at least another 2 days before I can get the "Libby" back.

Stay tuned.....................

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:15 pm

You guys should check out this link to TDI Club Forum, you might find it interesting reading.

NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

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