Need Divine Intervention!

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:52 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

If you decide to do it yourself, we can provide procedures, torque specs and techical assistance to help you along the way. Sorry about the situation you are in.

Keith,this is my only option.I will do my best.
And thanks for the condolences.

Guys,there is no sign of leakage around the injectors.The #1 injector has a thin coat of oil around the base(from spilling a bit during last oil change),that shows no sign of being disrupted by air/fuel/soot.All others were dry and clean before I blead them.
Keith believes that the #1 may be the good one in this case,since it is the only one to want to stop the engine,therefore it is doing the most work.

How hard is it to take out the injectors without fudgeing them up?
Is there an actual gasket seal between the injector and the manifold,or do you guys just mean the seal between the two?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Injectors can be pulled relatively easy. Disconnect the wiring for each injector, then remove the steel clips (slide out) on the top of each injector that hold the fuel return line. Remove the fuel return line off each injector by twisting back and forth while pulling up...make sure to pull straight up. Use the 17mm open end wrench to disconnect the fuel lines at each injector and then loosen the rail side a couple turns so the fuel lines have play in them or just take them off completely, but make sure to label them to reinstall in the same position. A 10mm socket with 6 inch extension will allow you to loosen the bolt that keeps pressure on the injector clamps. The #4 injector may need a shorter extension and some creativity. Now you can remove the crow's foot clamp and bolt. Remove each injector by rotating the injector left and right a few degrees to work it loose, it may take some force here and you can use some pliers to assist if careful. After the injectors rotate somewhat freely you can twist back and forth while pulling up to remove. There will be a lot of debris and junk on the side of the injectors and some soot deposits are normal.

After the injectors are out check for any witness marks on the nozzle, then crank the engine like Tony suggested...if the noise is still there it will be time for a deep dive into the engine.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:39 pm

Once the top of the engine is open (injector holes) be very careful that you don't drop anything in there... That would be a really suckful thing to have happen at this point. Spinning the engine should be extremely easy tho, as it won't be developing ANY compression. I would think it should be extremely quiet... Unless there is something physical getting in the way, which would indicate it is time to pull the head. Hope not.

The injectors are somewhat sequenced in the computer, so number them with a little tag or something before they come all the way out so you can get them back in the right holes. If there is anything unusual about the bottoms (one not like the others, etc) obviously let us know. I'm waiting with bated breath to hear the results after you can extract these things.

I have a set of 4 from my old engine if you need the replacements. 60k on them, they look to be in great shape. I can take pics if you need to see some good ones for comparison.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:47 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Injectors can be pulled relatively easy. Disconnect the wiring for each injector, then remove the steel clips (slide out) on the top of each injector that hold the fuel return line. Remove the fuel return line off each injector by twisting back and forth while pulling up...make sure to pull straight up. Use the 17mm open end wrench to disconnect the fuel lines at each injector and then loosen the rail side a couple turns so the fuel lines have play in them or just take them off completely, but make sure to label them to reinstall in the same position. A 10mm socket with 6 inch extension will allow you to loosen the bolt that keeps pressure on the injector clamps. The #4 injector may need a shorter extension and some creativity. Now you can remove the crow's foot clamp and bolt. Remove each injector by rotating the injector left and right a few degrees to work it loose, it may take some force here and you can use some pliers to assist if careful. After the injectors rotate somewhat freely you can twist back and forth while pulling up to remove. There will be a lot of debris and junk on the side of the injectors and some soot deposits are normal.

After the injectors are out check for any witness marks on the nozzle, then crank the engine like Tony suggested...if the noise is still there it will be time for a deep dive into the engine.

Hey guys,I just talked to a friend of a friend who is the head mechanic for a local Susuki dealer,and he is going to figure out what tool I need to do a compression check.
Should I wait and do the injector test after this?Also,what can you tell me about getting to the glow plugs and performing this check.He also has a scan tool that should be up to todays standards.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:50 pm

geordi wrote:

Once the top of the engine is open (injector holes) be very careful that you don't drop anything in there... That would be a really suckful thing to have happen at this point. Spinning the engine should be extremely easy tho, as it won't be developing ANY compression. I would think it should be extremely quiet... Unless there is something physical getting in the way, which would indicate it is time to pull the head. Hope not.

The injectors are somewhat sequenced in the computer, so number them with a little tag or something before they come all the way out so you can get them back in the right holes. If there is anything unusual about the bottoms (one not like the others, etc) obviously let us know. I'm waiting with bated breath to hear the results after you can extract these things.

I have a set of 4 from my old engine if you need the replacements. 60k on them, they look to be in great shape. I can take pics if you need to see some good ones for comparison.

Jim,you know you'll be sending something down yonder before this is over.
I got first dibs on whatever's broken. :BANANA:

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:55 pm

A compression test will tell you which cylinder has the problem... IF it is just a compression problem. Getting to the glow plugs will require removal of the alternator (and belt) and possibly some gyrations to get to the #4... And a few people have had bad things discovered (or happen) with plugs breaking off into the engine. If that happens or you find one that is mushroomed...

DO NOT TURN THE ENGINE OVER AT ALL until you remove the head and get the parts out!

My thought would still be with the injectors, and stay away from the glow plugs. This happened with a warm engine in motion, and it starts currently... So I'm not convinced that the plugs have anything to do with it. They can however cause more problems if you mess with them.

hahahahaha - I'm not trying to push parts at ya yet Bub, just letting ya know what I have from my parts bin. :mrgreen:

I just want to see your CRD back on the road before your wife makes you sleep in the garage with it.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Removing the glow plugs is much more labor intensive than the injectors. The dealer tools (which I have a full set) use a drilled out injector to test compression. If you need to borrow it just let me know. By the time this is all over you may earn your wings as a certified diesel mechanic!

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:02 am

Bub, at this point the most important for me (or us) is to know if it still makes noises when cranking it with the injectors out.

If it does..we'll take it from there.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:53 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Bub, at this point the most important for me (or us) is to know if it still makes noises when cranking it with the injectors out.

If it does..we'll take it from there.

10-4 Tony.It may take a day or two till I can get to it with the weather here lately.
I will definitely keep everyone posted.

Thanks Guys.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:45 pm

Allright guys,I went out earlier to start on the injector pull,and saw all the junk on the intake,so I tryed to clean it with household degreaser,and it didn't cut it.Gunk and sand everywhere.
Went to the Zone and got a can of engine degreaser and sprayed it down.Rinsed it off and shot it with compressed air and sand was flying everywhere.Glad I decided to clean it.

Have a fan drying the intake right now.Soon as it's dry I'm going at it.

Oh,and sorry for the stall guys.

I was slacking.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:55 pm

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:42 pm

Squeezoint...It appears we have clogged injector.

The injectors are out and it looks like the #3 injector is sooty and dry.The #1,2,4 injectors are wet and gunked up.
All appear to be unharmed.

Thoughts?

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

The #4 injector may need a shorter extension and some creativity. .

And the "Understatement of The Year" Award goes to.........Keith with GreendieselEngineering.
:ROTFL:

Serious,this was fun to say the least and it was a darn scorcher out today.

Put a fork in me. :dead:

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Did you crank the engine over with the injectors out? Is the noise still present?

I did not want to scare you from taking on the task...Good Job!

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:44 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Did you crank the engine over with the injectors out? Is the noise still present?

I did not want to scare you from taking on the task...Good Job!

Keith,I rolled some paper towels up and put it across the manifold and turned it over three or four times,and didn't hear the noise.Now the sound of the turning over was much different due to lack of compression,but not noise.

After,I took a paper towel and twisted the tip and crammed one in each injector hole for now,since there was still a bit of gunk and grime around the injector holes.
I put a piece of foil arouns the fuel lines and return lines to keep out foreign debris.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:30 am

Sounds like some good planning for protecting the motor, and GREAT news on finding the solution!

Depending on what the others say, you have a couple options for getting the injectors cleaned and operating again.

I don't know that I would pull the bodies apart (try to keep them in order, there are 6-digit numbers on them that you probably will want to write down and connect with the associated cylinder) But for cleaning, my first thought would be brake cleaner. The #3 injector however might be the one that is working, rather than the one that is stuck. Gunk isn't good for any of them however, and tells me that you have bad fuel and bad filtration. Probably mostly bad fuel... Its the curse of the USA - Rotgut diesel.

Check in your local area, see if you can locate a Bosch diesel shop. They should have the proper gear to bench-operate the injectors, and to clean them out and test them to spec. Then it is a simple matter of stuffing them back into the holes with fresh washers (which they would have) and you are back in business.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:11 pm

X2 on what Geordi said.

Glad you found your problem.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:30 pm

Man I'm so glad that it's not something internal to the engine. Did you find a place that can clean/ replace the injector? Or is it time to upgrade? :twisted:

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:02 pm

Hey guys I can't thank you enough for the help and guidence.I truely couldn't have done it without you.
I'm not holding my breath here,but I must remain positive and hope this is gonna get ole girl back on the road.Crossing my fingers.

linewarbr wrote:

Did you find a place that can clean/ replace the injector? Or is it time to upgrade? :twisted:

There are two places in the phone book that advertised servicing Bosch injectors.
One place was close by in Kenner but didn't mention working on diesels.
The other place was across the river in Harvey that's a big diesel outfit and services Bosch injectors.

I think I'll be going out to Harvey.You know...It's not so bad traveling these days since somebody hooked me up with a cool new Garmin. :wink:

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Don't forget to get new bolts for the injectors. I learned the hard way, broke one off before I even got close to the recommended torque. The FSM says they should be replaced.

A shop vac can come in handy making sure that nothing gets in the injector holes.

Good Luck.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:33 pm

bugnout wrote:

Don't forget to get new bolts for the injectors. I learned the hard way, broke one off before I even got close to the recommended torque. The FSM says they should be replaced.

A shop vac can come in handy making sure that nothing gets in the injector holes.

Good Luck.

Where would be the best place to pick up the bolts?I've learned enough the hard way. :roll:

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