LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Well, here I go... pulling the motor.

If you still have the rear main bits out, could you please measure the RMS. The OD, the ID & the thickness. If it has any numbers on it, knowing what they are would be useful. I want to see if its the same size seal as the the 425 as I have a spare.
Thanks

Thanks for that - all three of those components are accounted for!

The fitment of the slingers is nifty... the one thing I notice is that one of them can rotate about 5 degrees or so... I cannot tell if the carrier is designed that way or it's worn. It doesn't appear to be a problem, just an interesting detail.

They seem generally inclined to stay put - I'm sure a dab of assembly lube or even hylomar would be sufficient for assembly purposes.
The only thing I have left to do on this motor before I get to putting it back together is measure end play... I seriously doubt there's an issue, but it's the one thing left I can think of that could explain the massive leaks... crank walk killing the RMS. It's a stretch, but that's where I've gotten to.

LOL.... Yeah, it certainly isn't going to rust with all that grease all over it!

Meanwhile... While you have the engine out and in pieces, can you take a couple pics for me? There's a discussion I'm having on the FB group with someone about the oil pump and pickup system - can you look at the front of the oil pan area and see if you can identify the oil pressure relief valve, and send me a couple pics of that area? I'm trying to figure out if there's a way that the valve can be replaced from the front or not, or even just bypassed entirely so that the oil flow can be increased. There's a member who has been having issues and MIGHT be related to this - but I don't know what it looks like b/c I've never messed around in that area.

Hey guys - Nick especially - Is there any way you can think of that this would be buggered? There's a member that has lost multiple turbos, and in testing the oil pressure tonight a scantool came back with a report of 8psi on moderately cold oil.

To me, this is catastrophically bad, and it MIGHT just explain what happened with the second engine on my first CRD, which suddenly had a rod bearing failure in the middle of summer on a full charge of fresh oil. That one didn't munch the turbo, but suddenly started tapping after an Italian tuneup, and ended by stuffing the #4 rod through the side where the EGR had been. The rod cap had fallen off after the bolts backed out from the tapping after the bearing disappeared.

Thoughts? Any way you can think of to upgrade this, maybe a stronger spring? As it is, I already know that the warm oil pressure is only like 15psi at idle, I'd be much happier if it was about twice as much, but this seems like a really lousy pain to get at. Definitely not something for a drive-by upgrade.

Author:	thesameguy [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
layback40 wrote: If you still have the rear main bits out, could you please measure the RMS. The OD, the ID & the thickness. If it has any numbers on it, knowing what they are would be useful. I want to see if its the same size seal as the the 425 as I have a spare. Thanks I do, and I can!

Author:	thesameguy [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Per this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90623 I've got the next order coming... Head Gasket and Head Bolt Kit $129.95 Exhaust Manifold Gasket $10.95 Turbocharger Gasket $21.20 Thermostat Gasket Seal $1.60 Oil Return Line Seal Kit $8.95 Copper Pinch Nut (M8) $11.40 Exhaust Manifold Stud (M8x46) $17.01 Exhaust Manifold to Turbo Stud $18.00 so another week before I can make any progress. I miss the days before wife and mortgage and aging parents & in-laws when I could dedicate entire paychecks to nonsense. Those were great days. Although, the food and booze is better now, so maybe it's a trade worth making? Anywho, I skipped the pre-packaged "kit" because it turns out not to save money, and going from a $300 order to a $200 order means more food and drinks this weekend. I'll save the remainder of the top-end parts for next time Valve Cover Gasket $38.25 Intake Elbow Gasket & Seal Kit $9.99 Intake Manifold Square Gasket $6.50 Injector Seal & O-Ring Kit $35.80 to go with the RMS & related bits.

Author:	Mountainman [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
thesameguy wrote: Thanks for that - all three of those components are accounted for! The fitment of the slingers is nifty... the one thing I notice is that one of them can rotate about 5 degrees or so... I cannot tell if the carrier is designed that way or it's worn. It doesn't appear to be a problem, just an interesting detail. Anytime. There's a punch imprint that's supposed to keep them where they are, but I don't worry about it personally. I just measure end-play

Author:	thesameguy [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
They seem generally inclined to stay put - I'm sure a dab of assembly lube or even hylomar would be sufficient for assembly purposes. The only thing I have left to do on this motor before I get to putting it back together is measure end play... I seriously doubt there's an issue, but it's the one thing left I can think of that could explain the massive leaks... crank walk killing the RMS. It's a stretch, but that's where I've gotten to.

Author:	WWDiesel [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
thesameguy wrote: They seem generally inclined to stay put - I'm sure a dab of assembly lube or even hylomar would be sufficient for assembly purposes. The only thing I have left to do on this motor before I get to putting it back together is measure end play... I seriously doubt there's an issue, but it's the one thing left I can think of that could explain the massive leaks... crank walk killing the RMS. It's a stretch, but that's where I've gotten to. It would have to be massive, so I agree not likely.

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Well, here I go... pulling the motor. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90463	Page 6 of 17

Author:	thesameguy [ Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
layback40 wrote: If you still have the rear main bits out, could you please measure the RMS. The OD, the ID & the thickness. If it has any numbers on it, knowing what they are would be useful. I want to see if its the same size seal as the the 425 as I have a spare. Thanks

Author:	layback40 [ Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Thanks for that. It looks larger. I will have to dig the spare one of mine out now. Thanks for the motivation!

Author:	thesameguy [ Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
It's a good size, that's for sure! Per this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90622 I wanted to give an indication about exactly how filthy this motor is. Pretty much everything looks like this: Oil everywhere, and the PO pretty much kept it in the dirt... he was a tow truck driver / nut rancher (???) and when he wasn't using it to jump start stranded vehicles, he was using it in the orchard... so all the oil attracted a lot of dirt and muck. It's pretty gross everywhere. Since I'm waiting for parts, I figured I might as well make my future life easier: Still more to do, but at least I'll be able to see the leaks clearly next time.

Author:	layback40 [ Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Its nice to work on a clean engine!

Author:	thesameguy [ Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
It really is... a true gift! The engine BAY is also disgusting, but I don't think there is much I can do about it. There is so much sound deadening in there that using brushes and cleaners is a non-starter... I am probably just going to have to live with it. Maybe over time it will dry out and fall away.

Author:	GordnadoCRD [ Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
LOL At the very least, the metal beneath the gunk hasn't corroded through About the only thing that can reliably keep the diesel black oil out from under my fingernails is good thick Nitrile gloves.

Author:	thesameguy [ Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Seriously! If anyone ever asks about the mess, I'll just tell them I paid the extra for rust proofing.

Author:	geordi [ Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
LOL.... Yeah, it certainly isn't going to rust with all that grease all over it! Meanwhile... While you have the engine out and in pieces, can you take a couple pics for me? There's a discussion I'm having on the FB group with someone about the oil pump and pickup system - can you look at the front of the oil pan area and see if you can identify the oil pressure relief valve, and send me a couple pics of that area? I'm trying to figure out if there's a way that the valve can be replaced from the front or not, or even just bypassed entirely so that the oil flow can be increased. There's a member who has been having issues and MIGHT be related to this - but I don't know what it looks like b/c I've never messed around in that area.

Author:	Mountainman [ Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
geordi wrote: LOL.... Yeah, it certainly isn't going to rust with all that grease all over it! Meanwhile... While you have the engine out and in pieces, can you take a couple pics for me? There's a discussion I'm having on the FB group with someone about the oil pump and pickup system - can you look at the front of the oil pan area and see if you can identify the oil pressure relief valve, and send me a couple pics of that area? I'm trying to figure out if there's a way that the valve can be replaced from the front or not, or even just bypassed entirely so that the oil flow can be increased. There's a member who has been having issues and MIGHT be related to this - but I don't know what it looks like b/c I've never messed around in that area. That valve is hidden under the pan, and no external access. Uses the same slide hammer for removal as the carrier pins. Edit: oil pan that is

Author:	rankom [ Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
i have a mechanical oil pressure gauge on my 2006 crd. T-fitting installed at oil pressure sending unit. never seen less than 18psi on a very hot engine. if you see less than 18 at idle then you may have a problem.

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Author:	thesameguy [ Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Yeah, I can totally throw some photos up but Mountainman is exactly right. The pickup system is all "internal" - the pan would have to come off completely.

Author:	geordi [ Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Hey guys - Nick especially - Is there any way you can think of that this would be buggered? There's a member that has lost multiple turbos, and in testing the oil pressure tonight a scantool came back with a report of 8psi on moderately cold oil. To me, this is catastrophically bad, and it MIGHT just explain what happened with the second engine on my first CRD, which suddenly had a rod bearing failure in the middle of summer on a full charge of fresh oil. That one didn't munch the turbo, but suddenly started tapping after an Italian tuneup, and ended by stuffing the #4 rod through the side where the EGR had been. The rod cap had fallen off after the bolts backed out from the tapping after the bearing disappeared. Thoughts? Any way you can think of to upgrade this, maybe a stronger spring? As it is, I already know that the warm oil pressure is only like 15psi at idle, I'd be much happier if it was about twice as much, but this seems like a really lousy pain to get at. Definitely not something for a drive-by upgrade.

Author:	Mountainman [ Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
geordi wrote: Hey guys - Nick especially - Is there any way you can think of that this would be buggered? There's a member that has lost multiple turbos, and in testing the oil pressure tonight a scantool came back with a report of 8psi on moderately cold oil. To me, this is catastrophically bad, and it MIGHT just explain what happened with the second engine on my first CRD, which suddenly had a rod bearing failure in the middle of summer on a full charge of fresh oil. That one didn't munch the turbo, but suddenly started tapping after an Italian tuneup, and ended by stuffing the #4 rod through the side where the EGR had been. The rod cap had fallen off after the bolts backed out from the tapping after the bearing disappeared. Thoughts? Any way you can think of to upgrade this, maybe a stronger spring? As it is, I already know that the warm oil pressure is only like 15psi at idle, I'd be much happier if it was about twice as much, but this seems like a really lousy pain to get at. Definitely not something for a drive-by upgrade. It has a beefy spring, not unlike a valve spring. But, the wear on our oil pumps is often alarming. The design is really good at ingesting little bits of metal, especially from ground up rocker clips. I've also seen these bits get injected into the rear main bearing and wipe it out. I dont think it's the problem, but possible. At least you can replace the oil pump from the front!

Author:	WWDiesel [ Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
See this thread on LOST for a previous discussion on oil pressure and the oil pressure relief valve:> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90208 8 psig is too low. The engine oil pan has to be removed to access the pressure relief valve. From the FSM: Minimum Oil Pressure (Warm) 0.7 Bar (10 psi.) at Idle 2 Bar (29 psi) at 3800 rpm

Author:	thesameguy [ Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, here I go... pulling the motor.
Where is the oil pressure sensor that OBDII reports? Is that the sensor on the back of the oil filter housing? If so, I wonder if there would be value in using a mechanical gauge somewhere else - maybe one of the oil galleries along the block? 15psi warm seems like perfectly fine oil pressure, but 8psi cold is alarming. That, to me, sounds like an oil pump issue, although I had a similar problem on a Volvo which turned out to be a failed o-ring between the pump and pickup... I think cold thick oil enticed the pump to suck air through the o-ring but once things warmed up the pump was happier about taking in oil as it should. Here's the valve: You can see it's inline with the oil pan flange so the pan would have to come off.