My 250+HP CRD build

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:54 pm

Thank you!

After putting on 5k miles with a gt28 and getting used to how it behaves, I think a gt25 is going to be a touch too small. But time and miles will tell. I could always clip the turbine wheel to open it up some IF I have too. I want to install a back pressure gauge before I do the swap so I can compare. If back pressure is more than the boost, turbo is too small.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:13 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I looked up the specs for the sensor I got from GDE and it stated it was 2.5 bar. Got the new sensor and tune in, but I don't think the tune is quite right cuz it throws a code.

The low pressure turbo will be done and back next week, also have parts coming to rebuild the gt2560r to try. The 2560 is smaller than the 2860, so should have more boost sooner for better driveability. Also going to machine the exhaust housing to accept the turbo directly. The adapter works, but I want to make things more compact and flow better.

I just bought a farm and we are in the process of getting ready to move. The property needs some work and I won't have good garage space until december, so this project is going to slow down until I have access to my heated garage. Once in ill be all-out on this project again, its gonna take me some time anyways to get all the pieces collected, cams, piping, sensors, gauges etc. Next spring/ summer should be interesting, and hoping to get on a dyno to show everyone what these motors are (or aren't!) capable of.

Are you moving to Illinois?

What part?

Other than for farming, I'm not sure why anybody would want to do that.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:45 am

Nope, staying here in Ohio. Don't think I could afford the ground out that way lol.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:37 am

Question: Can you explain to me the advantages, aside from being simpler/more reliable, of going with a non-VNT turbo like you did. Im curious why OEMs would choose to go with a VNT over a regular wastegated turbo or even non-wastegated turbo when it seems like MPG's, power, etc dont seem to be as good as what you are able to achieve. Meanwhile, the people on the TDI forums seem to think the VNT's are the only way to go except for maybe a race engine which only uses the top part of its powerband.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:28 pm

OEM's use them because of emissions. The cooler you keep the combustion, the less NOx is produced. You do that in a diesel by pumping lots of air and creating a cool, lean fuel/air mix. They do create a very wide powerband, and is the perfect solution to the common compromise, small turbo for good bottom end torque, or big for good hp? The vnt turbo is both.
I could of easily slapped in a bigger vnt turbo, but I was after simplicity. By going this route I was able to reap the benefits of using a ball bearing charger over the standard bushed one. BB spool up to 25%-30% sooner and take FAR less oil. I'm actually working on a tricked out bearing cartridge right now that should blow everybody else's bearings away. Not sure on the longevity yet. I'll post pics once it's completed.
I think once my next turbo is swapped in, it'll be very close to how the stock turbo feels, without the complexity of it.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:08 pm

Well I now have put on 20k+ miles on the current setup. I've also had 4 guys message me about doing this swap. Most of there questions is what turbo do you recommend, and do I need bigger injectors?

You don't need bigger injectors, I did it to lessen the strain on the fuel system when pumping that much fuel. The next question I can't really answer because I haven't fully tested everything.

Although it's only 4 guys, it shows that there's some interest out there. So I've decided to build and install a Garrett gt2560r turbo. Then I'll take it to kieth to get a good, finalized tune. Then I'll know what turbo I can for sure recommend, as well as a good tune available to those who swap over. This way it'll be more of a "kit" than a piece-together-i-dont-know-what-im-doing kinda thing.

On another note, I've been collecting things to do my next stage of building. I got a junk head that I'm going to send out to get "practice ported" to see what can be opened up and where. The inside row of intake valves are incredibly restricted and look like they offer the most improvement. I'm looking to increase efficiency some while maintaining durability. Next will be a "performance grind" on the cams to increase efficiency there also. Depending what can be done there I may machine valve reliefs in the pistons, but hopefully I won't have to go that deep.

wfd1350 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:09 am

I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge with the mods.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:50 am

diesel_guy86 wrote:

Well I now have put on 20k+ miles on the current setup. I've also had 4 guys message me about doing this swap. Most of there questions is what turbo do you recommend, and do I need bigger injectors?

You don't need bigger injectors, I did it to lessen the strain on the fuel system when pumping that much fuel. The next question I can't really answer because I haven't fully tested everything.

Although it's only 4 guys, it shows that there's some interest out there. So I've decided to build and install a Garrett gt2560r turbo. Then I'll take it to kieth to get a good, finalized tune. Then I'll know what turbo I can for sure recommend, as well as a good tune available to those who swap over. This way it'll be more of a "kit" than a piece-together-i-dont-know-what-im-doing kinda thing.

On another note, I've been collecting things to do my next stage of building. I got a junk head that I'm going to send out to get "practice ported" to see what can be opened up and where. The inside row of intake valves are incredibly restricted and look like they offer the most improvement. I'm looking to increase efficiency some while maintaining durability. Next will be a "performance grind" on the cams to increase efficiency there also. Depending what can be done there I may machine valve reliefs in the pistons, but hopefully I won't have to go that deep.

Yes, this is awesome. I am interested in doing this but am in the process of moving from MA to UT so its not in the cards quite yet. It also puts me farther from GDE, so tuning will be a pain. Oh and then there's the fact that I only have 2 cars, so I cant really afford down time.

Out of curiousity, how much overhead is there in a completely stock fuel system. From what I have seen, the pump is not at peak pressure even tuned, but what about the injectors?

On a side note: I know you were looking for simplicity, but when i was researching in the fall I came across a new VNT turbo that is coming in the BMW and audi diesels which is a watercooled ball-bearing setup straight from Garret. A guy over on tdi club is putting billet wheels in them and machining the housing/doing custom flanges. I believe its based on the 2260 and is electronic waste gate. It appears to be the same actuator as on GDE's turbo kit so I am thinking their wiring and control system will work with this turbo. It could be a very easy swap.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:46 pm

Not sure how much hp the fuel system can support. The cp3's can be built though to supply more than this engine will ever handle. I don't think anyone makes bigger nozzles for the fuel injectors, which is why I had mine enlarged. I had zero starting problems in below zero weather, with no block heater on and 1 plug out. Not sure why, but I think it starts way better than it did stock.

That 2260 turbo sounds like an amazing upgrade! Do you have a link??

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:25 am

I'd also appreciate a link for the turbo if possible. I hear that some newer engines don't have exhaust manifold anymore, this being incorporated as part of the head, so cooling the gasses that come out of the head is more efficient. The new 1.8T from Vw comes with such an engine and when you stop it, you can hear a buzz that I believe it's an electric motor moving water through the head. So the turbo is not per se cooled, but the exhaust gasses are. Not sure how the newer diesels from bmw/Audi are, but definitely curious.

devilkin4 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:40 pm

id be interested in doing something like this to mine.

Boomenstein · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:59 am **Posts:** 31

Great post!
I am in the process of getting the original turbo rebuilt and would definetly consider this kit in the future, $1000 to replace this junk oem turbo sucks...

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:23 am

I did some searching and found the turbo mass-hole was referring to, it's a Garrett gb2260vklr. It seems there used mostly overseas on mercedes diesels. Price for one that appeared new on ebay.co.uk was right around $1,000. Plus you have to buy a kit so you can plumb the oil and water lines to the all-in-one center housing. You can however get them with the vacuum actuator like what the crd uses, which is nice.

I think there will be an equal amount of modding to get either turbo to work. My version requires adapting the downpipe and bolting on the manifold adapter. If one was to machine there housing to bolt the turbo direct the oil lines would even bolt right up. The intake hose and boost hoses bolt on too.
The gb2260 turbo will of course need adapting to bolt to the manifold, and downpipe, the compressor has a curved neck so your boost hose will probably have to be cut. Intake hose should slip on, and the oil plumbing needs completely customized because all the ports are located on one side of the center housing.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:46 am

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I did some searching and found the turbo mass-hole was referring to, it's a Garrett gb2260vklr. It seems there used mostly overseas on mercedes diesels. Price for one that appeared new on ebay.co.uk was right around $1,000. Plus you have to buy a kit so you can plumb the oil and water lines to the all-in-one center housing. You can however get them with the vacuum actuator like what the crd uses, which is nice.

I think there will be an equal amount of modding to get either turbo to work. My version requires adapting the downpipe and bolting on the manifold adapter. If one was to machine there housing to bolt the turbo direct the oil lines would even bolt right up. The intake hose and boost hoses bolt on too.
The gb2260 turbo will of course need adapting to bolt to the manifold, and downpipe, the compressor has a curved neck so your boost hose will probably have to be cut. Intake hose should slip on, and the oil plumbing needs completely customized because all the ports are located on one side of the center housing.

Thats it, I remember it had 47 letters in the name for vnt, water cooling, ball bearing and something else.

Did you find the guy that does the custom ones? He's out of germany i think and has a facebook page showing off his work in all its glory.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:11 am

here is the dude's facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/JTT/360509204058264?ref=stream

The guys a solid resource from what I saw and I believe he is saying that most GTB generation housings are cross compatible with the 2260vlkr so fitment shouldnt be too much of an issue.

Quote:

newest development, I am now able to convert every GTB (17) / 20 / 22 exhaust housing to fit the VKLR CHRA.

This was the direction i was thinking about going. The only issue I am not sure of was if the electronic actuator would utilize the same tuning from GDE's stage 2 tune. IE would the same PWM tables from GDE's 1756 turbo tune control the 2260VLKR properly. Wiring shouldn't be a problem, we know that works.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:21 pm

The PWM actuator is a HELLA unit, I think they all run at the same frequency. A few years ago I was researching them heavily trying to design my own boost controller and if I remember right I think there all on 170hz. Probably wrong on the frequency, it's been awhile.

Anyways I added that guy on fb, I'm gonna message him and see if we could perhaps get them machined to fit the crd's factory turbine housing. That way it will bolt up like factory, just have to do a little plumbing to get the oil and water lines hooked up.

I also called colt cams today, gonna send a pair of cams to them to see what can be done. If they can do anything they'll make a profile and a performance (possibly a tow too) cam grind will be available for us.

Things might get interesting this year...

65Corvair · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:16 pm

I would definitely be interested in a "bolt on" turbo option for our CRDs. I would be glad to help with the development in whatever way I can, but I am not well versed in the world of performance diesels.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:43 am

Killer thread, thanks! You've got me thinking. I'm calling the machine shop tomorrow to see if they think that they can port the intake enough to matter without making the head weak

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:54 am

It's the INSIDE ROW of intake valves that need the most attention. There's a large bulge inside that looks like it can be safely removed/blended.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:45 pm

Many thanks for the pics! I'll bring them to the machinist. I used to dremel on things like this, but not on this head, so I'll leave it to a professional.

My 250+HP CRD build

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