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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:50 pm 
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On your welder... You didn't buy a MIG welder, did you? Either that, or you didn't go and get the gas bottle that goes with it, and have it turned up high enough.

I can tell, those welds look like mine did when I first started, and was working with a stick welder and then a wire feed welder without a gas feed. Now I have a MIG welder, and it is literally hot glue for metal it's so easy.

The spatter and brown scorching you have is indicative of air (oxygen) at the point of arc, and that causes several problems. The plasma arc burns the air, splitting the oxygen and hydrogen apart, and the oxygen high-speed oxidizes what you are welding, ruining the welds from the inside out. I'm sorry to say, but those connections will never hold for long. Mine had twice as much slag on them, looking just as spattered... And only lasted about 6 months under the car.

Also the oxygen expands as it is burning, causing holes and pores to develop in the liquid metal, further weakening it. That connection will leak exhaust through those holes, and the humidity of a cold-start will get in there and rust it out from the inside too.

If you haven't gotten the gas kit yet, go get it. Look in the Yellow Pages for your local Welding Supply or Praxxair distributor. They sell all sorts of supplies, and Praxxair is one of the largest gas suppliers. You can get the hoses and regulator from them, and buy various sizes of tanks too. Don't rent the tank, its stupid. Buying it outright is better, you can refill it whenever you need to, and refills are cheap. Get an 80/20 Co2/Argon mix, its the easiest to weld with next to pure argon, but a lot cheaper. I bought an 80 cubic foot tank (size of a dive cylinder) and that will probably last me darn near forever. Its about $30 to refill that, but I've burned through a LOT of welding wire so far, and haven't put a dent in the regulator's meter reading.

If you aren't going to be welding a lot, I would suggest something in the 20-40 cubic foot range.

Get some scrap junk to practice on, you will eventually learn that the voltage setting is your "heat" setting, and you want it hot enough to start to melt what you are working on, so that if you stay moving it's fine, but sit in one spot... And make holes. Start with lower voltages until you get your speed up, lower voltage = lower bead progression. The feed speed is just that, but you want it fast enough to keep a continuous arc struck. Your weld shows nowhere near a continuous arc, which is why you have spatter everywhere. Also, constantly breaking the arc doesn't allow the subject to heat properly, so the welding wire can't bond properly by "soaking in" to the subject. The gas will help a lot with this. You want to start the gas flow off as low as possible (to preserve the gas) but IIRC, I have my rig set on about 5-7 or so for the output. I can't remember what the scale is on the regulator, I just remember those numbers. For learning, you will probably want to use more gas initially to make it easier. I've been welding for a couple years now. Once you get a nice fat arc going, listen to the sound it makes, compared with the spatter-fest you have now. That sound is your best indication of a good weld.

Good luck!

Beware the welding monster... Eventually you will figure this out, then all of a sudden you will have the desire to start sticking metal together everywhere for everything... Its a curse! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:29 pm 
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geordi wrote:
On your welder... You didn't buy a MIG welder, did you? Either that, or you didn't go and get the gas bottle that goes with it, and have it turned up high enough.

I can tell, those welds look like mine did when I first started, and was working with a stick welder and then a wire feed welder without a gas feed. Now I have a MIG welder, and it is literally hot glue for metal it's so easy.

The spatter and brown scorching you have is indicative of air (oxygen) at the point of arc, and that causes several problems. The plasma arc burns the air, splitting the oxygen and hydrogen apart, and the oxygen high-speed oxidizes what you are welding, ruining the welds from the inside out. I'm sorry to say, but those connections will never hold for long. Mine had twice as much slag on them, looking just as spattered... And only lasted about 6 months under the car.

Also the oxygen expands as it is burning, causing holes and pores to develop in the liquid metal, further weakening it. That connection will leak exhaust through those holes, and the humidity of a cold-start will get in there and rust it out from the inside too.

If you haven't gotten the gas kit yet, go get it. Look in the Yellow Pages for your local Welding Supply or Praxxair distributor. They sell all sorts of supplies, and Praxxair is one of the largest gas suppliers. You can get the hoses and regulator from them, and buy various sizes of tanks too. Don't rent the tank, its stupid. Buying it outright is better, you can refill it whenever you need to, and refills are cheap. Get an 80/20 Co2/Argon mix, its the easiest to weld with next to pure argon, but a lot cheaper. I bought an 80 cubic foot tank (size of a dive cylinder) and that will probably last me darn near forever. Its about $30 to refill that, but I've burned through a LOT of welding wire so far, and haven't put a dent in the regulator's meter reading.

If you aren't going to be welding a lot, I would suggest something in the 20-40 cubic foot range.

Get some scrap junk to practice on, you will eventually learn that the voltage setting is your "heat" setting, and you want it hot enough to start to melt what you are working on, so that if you stay moving it's fine, but sit in one spot... And make holes. Start with lower voltages until you get your speed up, lower voltage = lower bead progression. The feed speed is just that, but you want it fast enough to keep a continuous arc struck. Your weld shows nowhere near a continuous arc, which is why you have spatter everywhere. Also, constantly breaking the arc doesn't allow the subject to heat properly, so the welding wire can't bond properly by "soaking in" to the subject. The gas will help a lot with this. You want to start the gas flow off as low as possible (to preserve the gas) but IIRC, I have my rig set on about 5-7 or so for the output. I can't remember what the scale is on the regulator, I just remember those numbers. For learning, you will probably want to use more gas initially to make it easier. I've been welding for a couple years now. Once you get a nice fat arc going, listen to the sound it makes, compared with the spatter-fest you have now. That sound is your best indication of a good weld.

Good luck!

Beware the welding monster... Eventually you will figure this out, then all of a sudden you will have the desire to start sticking metal together everywhere for everything... Its a curse! :lol:



Thanks for the advice !
i bought a flux welder from harbour freight for 90 bucks or so. It works beautifully with thick metal. I was playing with the stock muffler and it was so easy and welds came really nice. (for my level at least).

As soon as i touched this advanceauto pipes, it wasnt hard to put a hole thru them. so i screw them up a bit, but ! is no problem becouse if they go bad or develop a leak... i ll just have to have more fun n learning fixing them. (and since are slip on, they are very easy to remove)

Eventually if i really catch up with this welder thing and learn to make some decent welds, i ll consider buying a nicer one.

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50K miles
ORM / EHM /facet lift pump
Suncoast TC and still shudders...
straight pipe.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Threeweight wrote:
Drone solved (I hope) today with the installation of a Flowmaster 50 series deltaflow muffler. Thank's for the suggestion _UnLiMiTeD_.

So far, sound is about the same as stock, a little deeper. Still get the nice woooosh of turbo when stomping on the gas. Fuel economy looks to be unchanged from the glasspack.


It's been a few days. Is the drone still gone?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:01 pm 
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007husky wrote:
Thanks for the advice !
i bought a flux welder from harbour freight for 90 bucks or so. It works beautifully with thick metal. I was playing with the stock muffler and it was so easy and welds came really nice. (for my level at least).

As soon as i touched this advanceauto pipes, it wasnt hard to put a hole thru them. so i screw them up a bit, but ! is no problem becouse if they go bad or develop a leak... i ll just have to have more fun n learning fixing them. (and since are slip on, they are very easy to remove)

Eventually if i really catch up with this welder thing and learn to make some decent welds, i ll consider buying a nicer one.



Ah, I see. The flux welders are kinda a joke, they really only work on extremely heavy things, but then you still have the same problem of pitting and incinerating the air. Thats why they work on thick material, you are basically pouring heat into the surface while the arc is jittering all over everywhere.

On the pipes - move the arc around more, use a zig-zag motion across your target seam, about a 1/4" wide. Lower the heat (voltage), if you can too. Keeping moving will prevent plasma cutting of the surface by the arc, and might actually lay down a semi-decent bead too. You might need to up the wire speed to the point where you are almost being pushed off the material by it in order to get decent arc stability.

Also, the Advance Auto pipes are extremely soft "mild steel" and that is why they hole so easily. The muffler is a thicker gauge and harder steel for durability, so it puts up with the heat a little better.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:27 pm 
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Be careful welding with auto parts exhausts. If you are using galvanized steel (very probably) the smoke that is created from burning of the chemicals is toxic.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:35 pm 
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While I agree that you shouldn't breathe any welding smoke ever... I do not believe the Advance Auto pipes are galvanized. Those should be straight mild steel, and will rust quite readily if they aren't cooked every once in a while.

You have to remember, those pipes aren't the quality stuff from Blowmaster or anybody else, they are the cheapest weekend-mechanic parts available. Functional, yes. But no frills.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:48 am 
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Joe Romas wrote:
Threeweight wrote:
Drone solved (I hope) today with the installation of a Flowmaster 50 series deltaflow muffler. Thank's for the suggestion _UnLiMiTeD_.

So far, sound is about the same as stock, a little deeper. Still get the nice woooosh of turbo when stomping on the gas. Fuel economy looks to be unchanged from the glasspack.


It's been a few days. Is the drone still gone?


Not a lot of highway driving in the last few days, but yah, the tone of the exhaust note is a lot less annoying now. Kind of hard to describe, but with the pack it was kind of a "chug chug chug chug" with a very deep, hard on the ear note (not loud, just concussive.) The Flowmaster is more of a "rumble rumble rumble", similar loudness, but the note doesn't have the same thump to it.

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Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:55 pm 
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After a full tank of diesel, i noticed 1-2 mpg diference and feels absolutely more responsive. I`m not saying more hp feeling, just faster to deliver and spool up the rpms.

Der Hund.

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Liberty CRD 2005
50K miles
ORM / EHM /facet lift pump
Suncoast TC and still shudders...
straight pipe.


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