meh......4bt isn't all that great. HEAVY, old tech. Manual injection. MEH.

guy on my other jeep forum has one in a durango, hasn't hooked up the 4x4 yet. lame

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How much will the crate engines cost? Will the crate engines be the same as the VM Motori 2.8 that came factory in the KJ's?

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I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

I cant stand the 4bt so I'm glad to see others agree...

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The 4bt is a way better engine then the 2.8 CRD will ever be.You want raw torque the 4bt is the way,but due to the heavy weight is not always the best choice though.Less to go wrong is better in the 4x4 world and owning a 4x4 you shouldn't be worried about mpg's either.

tjkj2002 have you ever driven a 4BT? By better do you mean more efficient? Powerful? Smoother? quieter? Lighter?

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Longer lasting(more HD),cheaper,less complicated,and more available(parts wise also).And yes more low end torque then a 2.8 can produce,not HP but torque(what really counts anyway).

And yes I have driven/worked on many vehicles with the 4bt and 6bt,many up to 10 times the weight of the CRD KJ,most contruction equipment and a few F-350's with the 4bt and 6bt coversions.Not as refined but not a picky either.

Having worked on them, what can you tell me about them performance-wise? Its going into a (currently) 4300-lb Jeep, that on a GOOD day, downhill in a 200mph tailwind, hitched to a Semi... It MIGHT see 18mpg.

Yea, I'm looking for higher MPG, and I fully plan to run the engine torque higher than the current V8 throws out, so that the Jeep will move a bit lighter on it's tires. I'm not expecting the moon, but I'd like better than I'm getting now with it, and for a LOT less than a VM swap would be. And yes, I've considered the VM, and all that technology that goes with it equals $$$$$

There are advantages to older technology in a repowering swap. Less to break is one biggie. Easier to work on is nice too.

One big question I have: How (and what) accessories bolt up to the 4bt? Can the current Mopar / Jeep accessories like the power steering and a/c compressor bolt up? Those are the big ones, I figure the engine might come with an alternator, but can mine bolt up instead if it doesn't? A friend (who told me about these to begin with) said that the Mopar stuff should bolt right on... But I'm not sure and I've never seen one myself.

From what I've seen, the more you fuel them (for performance) the less efficient they become. I purchased a complete CRD engine for $2000 shipped with computer. Now dont get me wrong, I love the 6bt's. The 4BT-s will rattle the fillings out of your mouth. I have seen swaps from pretty much everyone professionally doing them and that's the #1 complaint. Since these engines were designed for use in large HD vehicles, they produce serious vibration in smaller chassis. I professionally remove 4BT's from customer's vehicles as they are VERY unimpressed with them and put Toyota diesels in their place. I do, however, love the 3.3's but they are $$$$

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Ok, vibration bad. I was wondering if I should be thinking about a 6bt, but now that you know what I'm looking to accomplish, what would you recommend? I want to keep the 4x4, as this Jeep gets towed and also does some towing, but I don't want to replace the engine with another v8. If I have to lose the tranny in the deal, I guess thats OK, but as long as the cost doesn't get too stupid.

This is a 97 GC, so I don't believe it has all the body computer crap that ours do, about the only special features it has (and that I want to retain) is keyless entry and cruise control. I think all the rest is still direct-electric control like for the locks, windows, and power seats.

Thats partly why I was thinking about the 4bt, as a mechanical engine, the only connection to the car would be the throttle cable and the ignition circuit to turn it on. The old ECU could stay in place for all I cared. I'm leery of trying to mesh a computer system to the old one unless I have to, b/c I KNOW it will piss something off somewhere.

You can get a half cut from the UK with the factory turbo diesel for the 97 GC and everything will work. Plus it'll all be factory.

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"half cut"... What's that? I know the GC in the same body style was sold across the pond, I saw one with a diesel in it the last time I was over there. The big questions: How much, and can I get the full crate motor so it's ready to just drop in and start?

Well, I know you can purchase them from wreckers over there. I dont personally sell them so I have no idea of the $$. I would suggest doing your homework on it and see if it's financially do-able. Give me a call Monday and we can chat. -Todd
210-683-9663



Also as a side note, the 4BT's are pretty pricey or at least the ones I am finding. If you dont believe me about them being poorly suited for passenger vehicles, check out this auction I found today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-L ... enameZWDVW

That guy has some serious coin into this swap and he's selling a few months after driving it. One has to wonder why. In my opinion, the only people who like the 4BT's are younger guys who like the novelty of it. Once you drive one, they're not all they're cracked up to be. Very heavy, loud engines. Sure you can get some power out of them but at the expense of black smoke, poor economy, and shorter engine life.

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Thats the biggest load of crap and you know it.

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Show me a a 4wd vehicle(with low range t-case,SUV or pickup) that is worth a darn that get's better then 35mpg's,there ain't one yet.Anyway if used like intended you won't see anywhere near 20mpg's,less is more likely.By the time you mod it your getting less mpg's,even with lower gears and mpg gaining mods,it's just the nature of the beast.If you want mpg's a 4wd is not for you,and no a FWD car based SUV with "rear wheel assist" is not a 4wd in my book,either is anything without a low range in the option.I personally don't know one person that uses there 4wd SUV or pickup for what is intended for complain about mpg's it gets since they know it's part of the deal,"you gotta pay to play".

Since I let you coin the phrase "like intended" I will define it for you.

A Jeep that I can put 4 people in comfortably. - Check
A Jeep that I can put 4 people and their gear in comfortably. - Check
A Jeep that doesn't sway and have weird squirrely behavior at 75mph. - Check
A Jeep that will get 22+ MPG loaded with 4 people and gear on the drive to moab. -Check
A Jeep that will get me where I want or need to go at my destination and to do what I want at my destination.

Fact of the matter my paradigm for a Jeep is a vehicle that you can drive to moab, not have it murder you on fuel price, and not have it murder you in ride quality, and still be able to take offroad. A stock or lightly modded KJ or stock XJ fits that bill quite nicely.

"Like intended" in your book may not be a vehicle thats worth anything unless going 5mph over a rock. But in my mind that is far from "like intended."

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If it works for you that's great,but I expect more from my vehicle so my "intended use" is more demanding and mpg's is not part of that because no vehicle would ever fit what I want.Ride and comfort are at the bottom of the list also,but I grew up driving tractors and old grain trucks so ride and comfort is of no importance.Getting to were I want to go is most important.

I also think lifting a pickup is pointless,makes them worthless if it's a diesel.If I still lived in SD I wouldn't drive a Jeep,at least not as a DD.It would be a F-350/450 regular cab,long box,deisel,auto tranny,and duals(with "E" rated MT's),that's all I need to pull those 18,000lbs loaded horse trailers or haul aroud that 45' flat bed goosneck with 20,000lbs of feed(or what ever else) on it.Ain't getting over 10mpg's with those kind of loads,no matter what type of truck you use.But as I do not have any need for a pickup I drive my KJ that will meet my needs after I mod it enough,I really only bought a KJ cause I got a smoking good deal and now it's kinda grown on me.

And if that works for you thats great. I am just trying to make a point that you sound like a HUGE douche-bag right now telling me that my Jeep and what I do and what I use my Jeep for is somehow less worthwhile than yours.

Simple fact of the matter is that you expressed your opinion and made it sound like no other way was an acceptable way, and in doing so you stepped on some very offense toes.

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[/quote]Show me a a 4wd vehicle(with low range t-case,SUV or pickup) that is worth a darn that get's better then 35mpg's,there ain't one yet.Anyway if used like intended you won't see anywhere near 20mpg's,less is more likely.By the time you mod it your getting less mpg's,even with lower gears and mpg gaining mods,it's just the nature of the beast.If you want mpg's a 4wd is not for you,and no a FWD car based SUV with "rear wheel assist" is not a 4wd in my book,either is anything without a low range in the option.I personally don't know one person that uses there 4wd SUV or pickup for what is intended for complain about mpg's it gets since they know it's part of the deal,"you gotta pay to play".[/quote]


http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/hilux/specs.aspx


Is 35mpg an arbitrary figure or are you somehow implying that a 4BT powered vehicle achieves those consumption figures?

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I never said anything about you or your Jeep in anyway so a mute point.


I never phrased anything like that,"shouldn't" is just a referance since most mods commonly done to a Jeep always reduce mpg's.And opinions were wanted in this thread and I gave mine.Not everone is after mpg's but rather bettering there Jeeps(and not always better mpg's) and opinions are calculated from prior experiances which everyone will have different ones.


*******BACK ON TOPIC**********

Putting a non-EGR 2.8 in a gasser KJ would be a easy swap due to all the parts needed for the swap are already made and can be bought and rather zero fabbing would be needed.Plus the non-EGR 2.8 would be less complicated and would respond to aftermarket mods better,and of course be less prone to the problems the EGR 2.8 has been prone to.Of course a built tranny would be in order anyway,maybe that manual some of you wnat would be a good way to go.As far a the electronics go that can be dealt with from poeple like Dan at Burnsville offroad since he has vast knowledge of doing engine swaps of all kinds,most good hot rod shops can also get the electronics figured out also.

Show me a a 4wd vehicle(with low range t-case,SUV or pickup) that is worth a darn that get's better then 35mpg's,there ain't one yet.Anyway if used like intended you won't see anywhere near 20mpg's,less is more likely.By the time you mod it your getting less mpg's,even with lower gears and mpg gaining mods,it's just the nature of the beast.If you want mpg's a 4wd is not for you,and no a FWD car based SUV with "rear wheel assist" is not a 4wd in my book,either is anything without a low range in the option.I personally don't know one person that uses there 4wd SUV or pickup for what is intended for complain about mpg's it gets since they know it's part of the deal,"you gotta pay to play".[/quote]


http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/hilux/specs.aspx


Is 35mpg an arbitrary figure or are you somehow implying that a 4BT powered vehicle achieves those consumption figures?[/quote]


Id you don't consider it proprietary information I would be very interested to know what you did in ditching the auto trans TCM and having the ECU run without it.

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"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic