CAM gears totally loose ... are all the valves broken??

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:13 pm

The links I have for US suppliers don't even show rocker arms - and with the limited numbers of CRD's sold here - I'd expect them to be special order even if they could get them.

Try a post in the European, Australian sections - they've had more diesels than the US - might have some reasonable suppliers.

crdjon · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Sounds like some good news might be on the way:) Rocker fuse function worked, nice.

Let me get home from work and Ill find a place for you that should be able to get the valves direct from Italy, might take a couple of weeks though.

From Memory the www.mtudda.com or something close to that was the internet site and I think they are world wide and they can supply parts. We just got issues with part numbers because somebody decided to have multiple part numbering schemes for the same engines. Hmmmmm I wonder why.

We went looking for sites like this recently because of what looked like impending doom for DCJ.

Ill update this post evening.

UPDATE: the site is http://www.mtudda.com.au/ for me and they have an office just down the road, can get any VM_motori part for you once you identify what it is. Thats in Australia, check out the site its got other links as well.

crdjon · **Posted:** Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:19 am

From memory, there are large oil galley openings from the top of the head, I think its possible to drop stuff in them like bits of rockers and stuff, might pay to check that they are clear. The oilways are visible in the deep recesses in the top of the head and I dont know how far they go.

How is the parts hunting going?

Sonix · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:20 am

So far it looks like I woun't save much on the rockers, by importing them ...I can just as well get them locally ...
At the moment we are AGAIN in a bit of a "mind game", in deciding whether we should take the top totally off or not ... if the valves keep the compression inside, and they are all leavel when measuring them, we still have some people that say there's still a chance that something could be damaged, and that it could drop a valve later and cause havoc .... then there are other people (including 2 technicians from Chrysler), that says that it's a waste of time to open the head, and that the valves are fine ...
Problem is, once the engine is done, I'm gonna go on holiday (driving around 4000km/2500Miles) of loooooong, deserted roads ....and I really don't wanna have any trouble then ... man this is driving me insane!!

Another thing I wanna know ... as far as I could see, none of the injectors came out with the O-ring, so I guess the O-ring must still be inside somewhere? ... the number 4 injector came out with ALOT of a glossy, black substance on it ...almost like plastic that melted ....could it be that it could be the O-ring that burnt like that? ... and IF the O-rings are still inside, don't I have to take off the engine head ANYWAY, to sort out the O-rings?.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:12 pm

it says in the service manual the o-ring on the tip will come loose in the bore and has to be picked out, be sure to use new o-rings when going back together.

tigafila · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:09 pm

Just my $.02 but if valves hit pistons hard enough to break rockers I can't imagine them not being bent. A cylinder leakage test will tell the whole story though. I hope you're ok, but I fear not. Tigafila

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:20 pm

tigafila wrote:

Just my $.02 but if valves hit pistons hard enough to break rockers I can't imagine them not being bent. A cylinder leakage test will tell the whole story though. I hope you're ok, but I fear not. Tigafila

rockers are design to break before valve damage, still expensive though

Sonix · **Posted:** Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:25 am

OK... head is coming off today ... I still think there's 99.9% chance that the valves are 100% ok, but I'm not taking chances ... :wink:

Now for the O-ring story ... on the tip of the injector, is a little thing that looks like a copper washer ...is THAT the O-ring??? ... I thought it's suppose to be rubber?. ....

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:26 pm

Looks like there is a copper seal at the tip and a o-ring up higher on the body. This is from the service manual.

FUEL INJECTOR
CAUTION: There is a small seal at the bottom of
the injector that seals the injector to the cylinder
head. This seal MUST be replaced every time the
injector is serviced.

INSTALLATION
WARNING: High - pressure lines deliver diesel fuel
under extreme pressure from the injection pump
to the fuel injectors. This may be as high as 1600
bar (23,200 psi.). Use extreme caution when
inspecting for high - pressure fuel leaks. Fuel
under this amount of pressure can penetrate skin
causing personal injury or death. Inspect for high -
pressure fuel leaks with a sheet of cardboard.
Wear safety goggles and adequate protective
clothing when servicing fuel system.
NOTE: DO NOT use a brush to clean around the
injector nozzle. DO NOT lubricate area around
injector nozzle. The injector may become
restricted with debris.

NOTE: Be sure a new copper washer/seal is
installed on end of injector and the old seal is
removed, before installing in cylinder head.
NOTE: Apply anti seize compound to injector
body.

1. Install fuel injector in cylinder head with new seal and O-ring.
2. Install fuel injector retainer and bolt. Torque bolt to 32.4 N·m (24 ft. lbs.)..
3. Install fuel injector high pressure line.
4. Install fuel return line to injector.
5. Connect fuel injector electrical connector.
6. Install engine cover and bracket assembly (Refer to 9 - ENGINE COVER - INSTALLATION).
7. Connect negative battery cable.
8. Perform the injector classification procedure with the scan tool (Refer to 14 - FUEL SYSTEM/FUEL INJECTION/FUEL INJECTOR - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
9. Start the engine, allow to warm, Turn Off the Ignition, Inspect for leaks.

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:20 pm

Sometimes not all of them have the o-rings on them, or if they were removed at some point previous in its life then they might have been discarded then. If they're not there, it's not a big detriment.

The goopy mess that you saw on the #4 injector is normal. When they're installed there is usually some lubricant/greese (like a moly-based product) that is coated on them. If the o-rings aren't there and some water gets down around there, it can make for a goopy mess.

In my experiences in rebuilding these engines, I've always had the most quarrelsome experiences with the copper washer at the tip of the injector. If there is even the slightest amount of dirt, grime, or traces of carbon left over then it won't seal and you'll have a compression leak that sounds horrendous. I've found that the copper washers are less than $1.00US around here, you might consider to replace them when reassembling the top-end so as to alleviate any issues that might arise.

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:45 am

Heres a pic of an injector, note goop and Orange Oring.

[/img]

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:04 pm

Yep, looks normal to me

crdjon · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:23 am

Sonix wrote:

So far it looks like I woun't save much on the rockers, by importing them ...I can just as well get them locally ...
At the moment we are AGAIN in a bit of a "mind game", in deciding whether we should take the top totally off or not ... if the valves keep the compression inside, and they are all leavel when measuring them, we still have some people that say there's still a chance that something could be damaged, and that it could drop a valve later and cause havoc .... then there are other people (including 2 technicians from Chrysler), that says that it's a waste of time to open the head, and that the valves are fine ...
Problem is, once the engine is done, I'm gonna go on holiday (driving around 4000km/2500Miles) of loooooong, deserted roads ....and I really don't wanna have any trouble then ... man this is driving me insane!!

Another thing I wanna know ... as far as I could see, none of the injectors came out with the O-ring, so I guess the O-ring must still be inside somewhere? ... the number 4 injector came out with ALOT of a glossy, black substance on it ...almost like plastic that melted ....could it be that it could be the O-ring that burnt like that? ... and IF the O-rings are still inside, don't I have to take off the engine head ANYWAY, to sort out the O-rings?.

Probably stuck to the wall where the injector goes, thats where my number 4 one was. I put a bit of lube in there, white lithium grease and gently fiddled with it until it freed up. Got it out, cleaned it and then fitted back onto the injector. I only noticed it because it was missing from the injector and had a little swear to myself as where the hek to get one of these, answer was easy in the end

Sonix · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:23 pm

Sorry ... didn't see the replies until today .. :roll:

News so far .... head and valves went to engineering ... valves are 100% ok ... (luckely)

Had a bit of a "shock" regarding that @#$@# number 4 injector and injector hole in the top ... when the injector came out, there was still ALOT of that hard glossy black @#$ left inside the injector hole ... the black stuff was packed ontop of the edges of the copper washer ....so it took QUITE some time to get all the black stuff out, so that the washer can come loose (little bit of acitone in the hole, helped ALOT

Then the washer came out, and THAT's where the shock came ... you know the small hole at the end, where the tip of the injector fits through? ... on the top, side of the hole, there's a piece that's chipped out! :evil:

... so no WONDER it was leaking from underneath the washer! ...and that's probably why there was so much of that black glossy stuff! All I can think, is that someone hit the injector on the side, to let it come loose, but then caused the side of the hole to chip out ... we then cut our own copper washer ... a bit wider than the original one, and we also sprayed it with copper gasket spray ... hopefully it will seal enough ... :wink:

SOOoo ....the head is back on, the new rockers installed, and the top cover is back on..
Only thing left now, is the water pipes and electric connectors, then timing, then the cambelt, then the fan belt, and HOPEFULLY it will start then ...
We are planning to use a fuel pump, to "prime" the fuel lines and that will hopefully help to get rid of any air in the fuel system ... quick question ... can I just prime the fuel until the diesel filter is filled up, or must the pipe from the diesel filter, to the high pressure pump also be primed??

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

must have worked on your Jeep the last time it was "serviced." Man you've really been through the wringer on this one, between the wrong idlers and the rough treatment on the injectors. You probably have already done this, don't recall if you mentioned it, but in view of how they treated #4 injector, it probably would be a good idea to check the others out as well.

This is a classic poster child case for doing your own work, if at all possible.

Good luck.

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:54 pm

When I got my CRD to run, or rather prior to starting it, I went through the normal filter priming/bleeding routine, very easy with the cummins in tank lift pump fitted. Did that twice then cranked her over, between 5 and 10 seconds VROOM away she went.

Got to say over the next 500 ks or so I was a little nervous. Funny thing happened. With the power down from the computers for a week and a half or so I ended up with the best mpg I have ever had on the CRD. 8.72 litres per hundred measured that included city and country driving, seems to me there is something quite naf in the computing on the KJ. But thats going to be a whole other story.

Keep up the good work, I can hardly wait to see how our CRD goes after this work.

Sonix · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:56 pm

ALLLllllllrighty then! ...Jeep is done! :lol:

Everything looks ok so far ....no engine error lights, no injector blow-by, no water or oil leaks ... and the engine runs smoooooth! :lol:

Thanx for all the info and input ....much appreciated!
Interesting thing ... I've read on other threads, how people had problems priming the fuel system?

... mine was EASY ... 10 pumps, and the fuel filter started to fill up ...another 20 pumps, and the fuel filter was full ....then connected the hose to the high pressure diesel pump, another 5 or so hand pumps, and it was perfect! ....a few turns of the engine and WRHOoooom! ...engine started without any problem!
Will keep an eye on everything for a while, but so far it looks good! ...

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:47 pm

Let us know if your MPG goes up also after having the ECU unplugged for a while.

crdjon · **Posted:** Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:03 pm

Its good to hear the KJ is up and running again.

Dont forget to monitor the MPG after having the ECU down for a while, will be interesting to see if you get the same result I did.

Sonix · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:29 am

Gonna drive 700 miles tomorrow ....so trust me ...I'll QUICKLY see if there's a difference in fuel consumption .. :wink:

CAM gears totally loose ... are all the valves broken??

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