CRD manual tranmission

beelatch · **Posted:** Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:24 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

You will have to start looking at swapping in a NV4500,but by then you will need all the power the 2.8 can produce just to spin that trans.

I was already considering the NV3500 before posting this thread as it should be a good fit. It works well in the Dakotas with the 4.7 which makes similar torque output to the 2.8.

yatzee · **Joined:** Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:23 pm **Posts:** 4

I've been driving tdi's in various states of tune for many years now. Over 3 different cars, I've lowered, gotten chiped, custom turboed - you name it, I've probably tried it on 1 of my cars (except for a rice rocket spoiler - I'm an OEM plus kinda guy)

Fact: On a standard, when you shift, you lose boost. Black and white. You avoid this with an auto shift.

Fact: On vehicles where both an auto shift and a standard transmission are available, the standard transmissioned model ALWAYS gets better fuel economy. Simply, the auto trans adds a lot of drag and weight to the whole process.

Fact: If the same 2 vehicles are put beside each other, 1 with an auto, 1 with a stick, the stick will be quicker (assuming the driver knows how to shift)

The only transmission that is changing the rules is the DSG box (direct shift transmission) that VW, BMW, MB and maybe a few others have. That seems to be best of both worlds.

Regardless of the model, the ECM controls the amount of fuel and boost that is put down. This is true for all vehicles these days - there usually aren't way to manually fool them.

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

Some interesting numbers I've been finding...

the NSG370 trans is rated to take 272 ft-lb of torque at the input shaft as maximum. Mind you this was the number listed for the NSG370 variant they stuff into the sprinters over in europe, and they do have a different gear ratio package. I can't believe the one stuffed behind the v6 gasser is much different in terms of power capacity.

from what I've also found the 2.5L diesel is rated to 280 ft-lb and the 2.8L at 295 ft-lb. those aren't significant differences over what the NSG370 appears to be able to take. add in some engineering "leeway" into the trans and I don't see the manual having much of a problem. even if you had to reprogram the ECU to pul the diesel's power down to 272 or lower you're still heads and shoulders above the gasser v6's 235 ft-lb, and at a much lower and more useful RPM.

Now if you start hopping up the diesel and are making 400 ft-lb like I've heard rumors about then yea I could possibly see the trans having a problem. But then i'm reminded of another transmisson, which most would suspect is far more fragile given that it's a FWD trans, that has been proven to take alot more power than was ever tossed at it from the factory... the T850.

it would be an interesting experiment to see what it would take to kill an NSG370 with a diesel feeding it some serious twisting forces.

oh and if anyone in the states manages to magically come across an NSG370 with the 5.01 1st gear, let me know.

yatzee · **Joined:** Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:23 pm **Posts:** 4

TKB4 wrote:

Now that sounds desireable

even if someone started playing with an nsg370, the ratios that were listed on wiki didn't look all that desirable - the thing would spin too quick on the highway with the 3.73 set. Even with a set from a 05/06 V6 (which is 3.55) I don't think it would make enough of a difference.

Pardon the n00b-FWD-driver-question, but how hard is it to change the R&P in the front and rear diffs? I've found a vendor or 2 that'll sell a 2.92 kit for around $300

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 pm

yatzee wrote:

Pardon the n00b-FWD-driver-question, but how hard is it to change the R&P in the front and rear diffs? I've found a vendor or 2 that'll sell a 2.92 kit for around $300

No gears that high for the front D30A in the front of your KJ.It's not the same as a regular D30 or HP30.The lowest gears offered for the D30A is 3.55,and no the KK's D30M's gear sets will not work in the KJ's D30A's case.

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

which "thing" are you talking about ... the transmission or the engine?

keep in mind a 2200rpm (ok, technically it's 2194.752rpm) input shaft rotation rate in 6th gear (0.84) with a 3.55 final drive is 60mph. the 2.8L diesel's torque peak is at what... 1800rpm? it red lines where? 4500rpm? 5000rpm? that's more than enough to get you into a heap of trouble.

and without seeing the torque curve on the diesel I'd say you'd gotta be pretty close to being in the sweet spot while doing highway speeds.

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:26 am

Another thing your all not realizing is the vibrational stresses a diesel produces on trannys of which autos will help absorb. Just because a trans is rated for X torque on a gas motor doesn't mean it's designed to operate reliably behind a diesel

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

except it IS designed to operate behind a diesel. they put it in the Sprinter.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:14 am

sota wrote:

except it IS designed to operate behind a diesel. they put it in the Sprinter.

But the CRD is a 2.8L 4 cylinder and gives 2 very big torque producing "thumps" per revolution and I believe the Sprinter your talking about is a 2.5L 5 cylinder giving 2.5 lesser thumps per revolution :jester:

Those "thumps" are what kill torque converters and clutch disks and eventually transmissions :5SHOTS:

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

the sprinter had I5 diesels available for the T1N 1st gen variant... 2.9L TDI and 2.7L CDI. there was no 6spd manual at that time.
the 6spd shows up for the NCV3 2nd gen variant of the vehicle. for that there are also 2 diesels... 2.2L I4 and 3.0L V6.

also, your "thumps" are backwards. more cylinders mean more "thumps" per revolution. it's kind of the whole point of having more cylinders after all. :jester:

I5 gives 25% more "thumps" per revolution compared to I4.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The KK CRD manual in the export market has the option of 3.55 and 3.21 axle ratios coupled with the NSG370 6-speed. The manual is certified to EuroV with better fuel consumption than the auto version. The torque limitation in the manual version serves two purposes: protecting the dual mass flywheel and gears 4, 5 and 6 inside the box. You can keep the boost constant during shifting on the MTX if power shifting (not letting off the throttle during the shift). In a conversion on the KJ to an MTX, it would be stronger without the dual mass flywheel, but the gear rattle is more noticeable at low rpm. The DMF in production overseas tends to have a fairly high failure rate due to torsionals of the 4-banger. More cylinders generally means the torsionals are lower for a given torque output. All things being equal the MTX KJ CRD is more fun to drive than the 545RFE and easier to tow with in that you can dial in the engine rpm based on the situation as well as improved engine braking during downhill runs.

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

Well since you chimed in... here's a question for you...
Can YOU reflash the ECU in an auto to work properly with a stick behind it? Or does an ECU out of a diesel/manual need to be sourced.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The ECM from an auto CRD can be reflashed to function with a manual. However, some features will be lost if you do not wire in the clutch switch.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:05 pm

Dual Mass Flywheel = Grenade :2cents:

Over power a Dual Mass Flywheel, they explode as designed.
Surprised the BATFE does not investigate :ROTFL:

I know the EPA would if it was in their jurisdiction :ROTFL:

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

mmm....
if I had to guess... proper cruise control and starter interlock (clutch up-stop and down-stop switches). question is... are those pins even in the harness at the ECU?

warp2: but that's par for the course for alot of chryslers. so why should that surprise you?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:43 pm

he didn't say it surprised him - it just gave him the opportunity to use more :ROTFL:

's

this

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

The ECM from an auto CRD can be reflashed to function with a manual.

is a good thing

beelatch · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:25 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

The KK CRD manual in the export market has the option of 3.55 and 3.21 axle ratios coupled with the NSG370 6-speed. The manual is certified to EuroV with better fuel consumption than the auto version. The torque limitation in the manual version serves two purposes: protecting the dual mass flywheel and gears 4, 5 and 6 inside the box. You can keep the boost constant during shifting on the MTX if power shifting (not letting off the throttle during the shift). In a conversion on the KJ to an MTX, it would be stronger without the dual mass flywheel, but the gear rattle is more noticeable at low rpm. The DMF in production overseas tends to have a fairly high failure rate due to torsionals of the 4-banger. More cylinders generally means the torsionals are lower for a given torque output. All things being equal the MTX KJ CRD is more fun to drive than the 545RFE and easier to tow with in that you can dial in the engine rpm based on the situation as well as improved engine braking during downhill runs.

You hit the nail SQUARELY on the head. These are the reasons I started the thread.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:58 pm

sota wrote:

mmm....
if I had to guess... proper cruise control and starter interlock (clutch up-stop and down-stop switches). question is... are those pins even in the harness at the ECU?

warp2: but that's par for the course for alot of chryslers. so why should that surprise you?

Tong in Cheek whit.
Enhanced TDIs have had the Dual Mass Flywheel Grenade problem as have the Tuned Diesel pickups with manual transmissions. Dual Mass Flywheels are lousy Bean Counter Engineering, nothing more.

butcher_block · **Posted:** Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:52 pm

i have a 02 dakota
the 3500hd and nv231hd should be fine and with the little baby tires i have on her now i run 2k RPM at right about 70mph
but my most used rpm/speed is 1500 inch and 50mph ( i dont hit thte highway much )

i have 3.55 gears and avg 17 MPG and 21 on all highway (22 and 30 woudl be the stuff of dreams )

i drive liek an old man tho and rarely make the tack see over 3k and most the time its shifting jsut over 2k rpm

beelatch · **Posted:** Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:40 pm

I also have an 02 Dakota (QC 4X4) destined to burn oil but I'm planning a TDI swap with an NV3500 5 speed. Gonna be lots of mods and fabricating.

CRD manual tranmission

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