Mobil 1 5w-40 in different formulations

Glend · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:11 pm

Some of those Mobil oils listed at the tip are enviro oils and formulated to protect DPFs, thus the zinc content has been reduced substantially compared to CH and CH API grades. CH and CI are specifically formulated to hold soot in suspension and allow longer drain intervals. API CJ has been identified as a possible cause of premature cam follower wear in diesel engines (and perhaps plays a role in the rocker and lifter problems some people are reporting lately).

My personal oil of choice is a good quality synthetic of 5W-40 weight or above (like 10W-40), and spec'd as per my owners handbook at CF. The reason I go with the older formulation is:

I run a GDE tune and thus my EGR levels are way lower than a stock setup and therefore there is very little soot to worry about keeping in suspension. I also have an EGR block installed to completely cut off the gases and soot coming into the engine. Soot is an abrasive (look at it under a microscope). In my opinion soot and lower viscosity oils are a contributing factor for lifter, rocker bearing failure.

The CF API grade has a high zinc content compared to CJ and thus a better anti-wear formula.
CF synthetics tend to be lower cost than CH, CI and CJ oils.

I also run a short drain interval of 5000kms, so my oil never gets dirty enough to worry about and the lower cost of the CF means that it doesn't cost me anymore to change more frequently.

Just my personal management plan to prevent damage to the engine, and so far it's all working very well.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:37 pm

Mike is correct. The only Mobil 1 0W-40 oil sold in the US is the European Car Formula.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Racer, the file with zinc and phosphorus content is good info. Thanks.

Yes, the discussion continues. Our engines are falling like flies across the US. Keith, Glend, and others (INCLUDING ME) know that isn't happening anywhere else. . . anywhere close to the level it is here. AFAIK, the export engines (excepting EGR) are essentially identical to what we have.

The zinc/phosphorus content in oils has been cut to protect DPF's. Apparently, an EGR isn't clogged as easily. Rotella T had a CI-4 rating with about 1200/1300 ppm phosphorus/zinc before 2006. That level was considered safe for EGR's. It was being run in motorcycles.

Motor oil changed in 2006. Low zinc means API ratings are no longer 'backward compatible.' CJ-4 oil isn't necessarily superior, or even equal to CI, CI-4, CI-4 PLUS, CH or CF.

The Amsoil stuff looks good. The Mobil motorcycle oil looks good. Glend (and all Aussies) has seen a lot more VM engines than we have, and his board isn't full of guys reporting failures.

Oil companies say whatever they want. Getting good info like Racer posted is difficult to find. No, oil isn't what it used to be. . . and that's not good news for these engines.

PS You haven't lived until you spend some time on[url]bobistheoilguy.com/[/url] Those guys are like us, everybody has an opinion. ACEA E7 = CI. ACEA E9 = CJ

Vayan con Dios

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:41 am

I'm glad I still have a stash of CI-4+ rated Rotella 5W-40, which I bought when I heard they would be neutering diesel oils to protect DPFs and such like.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:23 am

Since moving to the US, I have been using Mobile 1 5W-40 ESP. Napa has it and sometimes has it on sale for about $5.42 a liter. I normally buy 2 cases at a time. This was recommended by my dealer in Germany since I could not get the BP oil they used there. I do my best to change it every 6000 miles +/-.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:57 am

is it possible to get a zinc additive for the lube oil?

RJM · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:03 am

Yes, there are products available. You need to check the levels of zinc in the oil you are using. To the best of my knowledge most oils on the USA side are running about 800ppm which is very low. I choose oils that have no less than 1200ppm. With zinc additives, more is NOT better, it can become corrosive and lead to engine failure. 1100ppm to 1600ppm will give the oil the lubricating boost it needs.. R

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:00 pm

Here's the ZDDP (zinc) I use.
http://www.barsproducts.com/catalog/vie ... QgodUEcAYw

Technical data sheet
http://www.barsproducts.com/system/pdfs ... 1323886893

FAQ sheet
http://www.barsproducts.com/support/faq/23

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:51 pm

So...with Mobil 1 5w-40TDT oil that has 1200 ppm of zinc in it already would it still be advisable to use the zinc treatment or would that be too much zinc?

Jim

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:36 pm

Here's a interesting read on the history of motor oil chemistry :jester:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... y_how.aspx

Dennis MacGyver · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:03 pm

kissfan79 wrote:

So...with Mobil 1 5w-40TDT oil that has 1200 ppm of zinc in it already would it still be advisable to use the zinc treatment or would that be too much zinc?

Jim

Looking through the technical data sheets referenced above, ZDDP levels for diesel engines produced before model year 2007.
The one sheet recommends 20% additive.
In another place in the sheets, they recommend 1 bottle per 5 qts of oil.
Read through the tech sheets and decide whats right for you.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

jinstall wrote:

Since moving to the US, I have been using Mobile 1 5W-40 ESP. Napa has it and sometimes has it on sale for about $5.42 a liter. I normally buy 2 cases at a time. This was recommended by my dealer in Germany since I could not get the BP oil they used there. I do my best to change it every 6000 miles +/-.

Not a great oil in my opinion because it has been "neutered" with alternative additives to protect diesel particulate filters. It has a lower TBN then regular 5w40 and doesn't last as long between oil changes.

I'm forced to use ESP in my wife's Grand Cherokee CRD and I've recently started using it in my 1991 Mazda RX7 Convertible which is oil injected with oil from the crankcase and ESP burns cleaner (has lower ash and less additives then conventional oils).

5.42/liter is a great price, I've been paying almost 10/liter which is expensive since my wife's GC CRD takes 10 bottles of this stuff.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 pm

Just to amuse yourselves, you can google VOA (virgin oil analysis) for your favorite brand at bobistheoilguy.com to see if a lab has found the same add/pack numbers listed on the company spec sheet. I see voa's with 600/800 ppm phosphorus/zinc. But. . . would an oil company lie???

jinstall · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:18 am

Drewd wrote:

jinstall wrote:

Since moving to the US, I have been using Mobile 1 5W-40 ESP. Napa has it and sometimes has it on sale for about $5.42 a liter. I normally buy 2 cases at a time. This was recommended by my dealer in Germany since I could not get the BP oil they used there. I do my best to change it every 6000 miles +/-.

Not a great oil in my opinion because it has been "neutered" with alternative additives to protect diesel particulate filters. It has a lower TBN then regular 5w40 and doesn't last as long between oil changes.

I'm forced to use ESP in my wife's Grand Cherokee CRD and I've recently started using it in my 1991 Mazda RX7 Convertible which is oil injected with oil from the crankcase and ESP burns cleaner (has lower ash and less additives then conventional oils).

5.42/liter is a great price, I've been paying almost 10/liter which is expensive since my wife's GC CRD takes 10 bottles of this stuff.

I just bought another 12 from the local NAPA and it was $8 and change.

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:42 am

For curiosity's sake....I pulled up my last used oil analysis from Blackstone labs to look at the zinc levels. the first sample I sent in was from about a year ago and was 0w-40. It had about 6,600 miles on the oil and the zinc levels were 1076 ppm. The second sample I sent in had about 3,600 miles on it and was 5w-40TDT. The zinc levels in that sample were 1129 ppm. So....the 5w-40 did have a bit more zinc but the 0w-40 had more miles on it. I don't know if the zinc levels would come down on the the 5w-40 if the miles were at 6,600. I'm possibly interested in trying a zinc additive but I have always been cautious of adding/using oil supplements.

Jim

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:51 am

The other thing of note that Blackstone pointed out was both oil samples had a high viscosity rating. The viscosity rating should have fallen between 66-76 SUS. The 0w-40 had an SUS rating of 108.3 and the 5w-40TDT had an SUS rating 83.6. So....in both oils there was definitely some thinning of the oil.

Jim

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:51 am

kissfan79 wrote:

The other thing of note that Blackstone pointed out was both oil samples had a high viscosity rating. The viscosity rating should have fallen between 66-76 SUS. The 0w-40 had an SUS rating of 108.3 and the 5w-40TDT had an SUS rating 83.6. So....in both oils there was definitely some thinning of the oil.

Jim

What causes viscocity to break down?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:59 am

racertracer wrote:

kissfan79 wrote:

The other thing of note that Blackstone pointed out was both oil samples had a high viscosity rating. The viscosity rating should have fallen between 66-76 SUS. The 0w-40 had an SUS rating of 108.3 and the 5w-40TDT had an SUS rating 83.6. So....in both oils there was definitely some thinning of the oil.

Jim

What causes viscocity to break down?

HEAT

Read about it here.
http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop10 ... ange-2.htm

kissfan79 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:52 am

Heat would certainly make the most sense as I do tow quite a bit my my CRD. In the first UOA I had done with the 0w-40, they did make the comment that the oil was "sooty indicating heat damage". The viscosity was better on the 5w-40TDT but the oil had less miles on it. I currently have 5w-40TDT in it now and will be changing it soon. I will be curious if the viscosity is the same or worse than the first time I sent in the 5w-40TDT sample. I have about 4500 miles on the oil in my CRD now so it will be more than the first sample.

Jim

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:49 pm

If heat breaks oil down and our turbo charged engines run hot, wouldn't it make sense to run with a heavier oil from the start?

Like 10w40 synthetic?

Mobil 1 5w-40 in different formulations

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