4wd modes when to use full time

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 182

Anyone who thinks FT 4WD is a useless mode, has not driven regularly in a Canadian winter, or equivalent. I have owned quite a few 4 wheel drive vehicles over the years and the Jeep KJ CRD has been the most cherished. Probably why we have to of them.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:28 am

OMG

All this discussion about 4WD modes and traction, and nobody has mentioned lockers, types of lockers, and the merits of lockers in a 05 Liberty vs TCS in a 06 Liberty.

I thought this was a JEEP forum???

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:02 pm

flash7210 wrote:

OMG
All this discussion about 4WD modes and traction, and nobody has mentioned lockers, types of lockers, and the merits of lockers in a 05 Liberty vs TCS in a 06 Liberty. I thought this was a JEEP forum???

So very glad I have an 05 with simple Dana Trac-Loc rear differential. Read to many horror stories about issues with the 06 traction control.
Although my Trac-Loc is not a true locker, it serves my purpose and has good road manners.
:SOMBRERO:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 pm

[/quote]
So very glad I have an 05 with simple Dana Trac-Loc rear differential. Read to many horror stories about issues with the 06 traction control.
Although my Trac-Loc is not a true locker, it serves my purpose and has good road manners.
:SOMBRERO:

[/quote]

I'd like to hear about these 06 locker problems. I've been wishing I could swap ecu's so i could delete the gateway, but maybe it's good that I have an 05 since I have lockers?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:12 pm

Mountainman wrote:

wwdiesel wrote:

So very glad I have an 05 with simple Dana Trac-Loc rear differential. Read to many horror stories about issues with the 06 traction control.
Although my Trac-Loc is not a true locker, it serves my purpose and has good road manners.
:SOMBRERO:

I'd like to hear about these 06 locker problems. I've been wishing I could swap ecu's so i could delete the gateway, but maybe it's good that I have an 05 since I have lockers?

This is but one of the discussions on LOST concerning the 06 TC system, there are many more if you search. :wink:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21407

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

flash7210 wrote:

OMG

All this discussion about 4WD modes and traction, and nobody has mentioned lockers, types of lockers, and the merits of lockers in a 05 Liberty vs TCS in a 06 Liberty.

I thought this was a JEEP forum???

This tread is oriented mainly about the 4FT......

So not really a off-road tread !

iakj11 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:59 pm

My CRD runs in 4FT almost exclusively when on road in the midwest winters. Love how sure footed it is. It's also my go to mode year round when needed off road on farm trails and slippery grass covered pasture hills. Never have to worry about binding up.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:35 pm

Quote:

I'd like to hear about these 06 locker problems. I've been wishing I could swap ecu's so i could delete the gateway, but maybe it's good that I have an 05 since I have lockers?

IDK of any specific problems.
I imagine the TCS works flawlessly for 98% of average driving.
But the TCS is for novice drivers who don’t understand two-footed driving.

You can put lockers in an 06 with TCS.
Probably best to also disable the ABS.
But, you know, some people don’t know how to drive without ABS.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

flash7210 wrote:

Quote:

I'd like to hear about these 06 locker problems. I've been wishing I could swap ecu's so i could delete the gateway, but maybe it's good that I have an 05 since I have lockers?

IDK of any specific problems.
I imagine the TCS works flawlessly for 98% of average driving.
But the TCS is for novice drivers who don’t understand two-footed driving.

You can put lockers in an 06 with TCS.
Probably best to also disable the ABS.
But, you know, some people don’t know how to drive without ABS.

Just hope you don't use two-footed driving for 98% of your average driving :SOMBRERO:

Rrusse11 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:15 pm

Thanks gents for the information on the the settings, and usage thereof.
Have yet to need any of the 4wd settings, but good to hear that I've managed to understand the manual
correctly. Part time if stuck or really bad slippery conditions, full time as an on the road awd. Last resort
is lo. Looking forward to the winter months, my General AT Grabbers should be good!

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

Rrusse11 wrote:

Thanks gents for the information on the the settings, and usage thereof.
Have yet to need any of the 4wd settings, but good to hear that I've managed to understand the manual
correctly. Part time if stuck or really bad slippery conditions, full time as an on the road awd. Last resort
is lo. Looking forward to the winter months, my General AT Grabbers should be good!

Well, sort of. I’d say I’ve arrived at the notion that FT is for the MOST slippery conditions, at speed, or for general use where we don’t really need 4wd but we don’t really not need 4wd per se lol. Okay it’s not a useless mode, just pretty minute compared to 4wd part time, otherwise known as 4hi.
Also, I’d like to throw out that the dangers of “binding” he driveline are greatly over stated by all corners of the internet. It’s not a big deal.

Also, yes, this wasn’t an all inclusive thread about traction and wasn’t intended to dive into lockers and (gulp) tires, but I will say that my plans are to put true trac LSD’s on both ends someday. I LOVE true tracs

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

Also, I’d like to throw out that the dangers of “binding” he driveline are greatly over stated by all corners of the internet. It’s not a big deal.

Perhaps not for minor binding, but it can break driveline components. Been there, done that, cracked the casing of the NP207 to prove it. I wouldn't call advising against doing it overstatement.

Quote:

Also, yes, this wasn’t an all inclusive thread about traction and wasn’t intended to dive into lockers and (gulp) tires, but I will say that my plans are to put true trac LSD’s on both ends someday. I LOVE true tracs

The best traction aids I ever had were a pair of ECTEDs in one of my XJs. They worked as LSDs when unlocked, and did extremely well in 4FT. Only downside was that the front would occasionally grab when making tight turns (2WD in parking lots), but it was otherwise a very liveable combination. Bummer they're not available for the C8.25; I'd go with another one in a heartbeat.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

Also, I’d like to throw out that the dangers of “binding” he driveline are greatly over stated by all corners of the internet. It’s not a big deal.

Perhaps not for minor binding, but it can break driveline components. Been there, done that, cracked the casing of the NP207 to prove it. I wouldn't call advising against doing it overstatement.

Quote:

Also, yes, this wasn’t an all inclusive thread about traction and wasn’t intended to dive into lockers and (gulp) tires, but I will say that my plans are to put true trac LSD’s on both ends someday. I LOVE true tracs

The best traction aids I ever had were a pair of ECTEDs in one of my XJs. They worked as LSDs when unlocked, and did extremely well in 4FT. Only downside was that the front would occasionally grab when making tight turns (2WD in parking lots), but it was otherwise a very liveable combination. Bummer they're not available for the C8.25; I'd go with another one in a heartbeat.

I’m of the opinion that any 4wd that can grenade from that scenario has either maintenance or inherent design flaws. How would you ever do Moab with such a delicate system? And who hasn’t forgotten their gear and turned onto dry pavement. I’ve done it many times. Heck, I had a Tacoma who’s 4wd switch was the exact same shape and size as the hvac controls and right next to it. That truck got shifted into 4wd on the street a few times.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:13 am

Quote:

of the opinion that any 4wd that can grenade from that scenario has either maintenance or inherent design flaws.

Have you happened to notice the aluminum front diff on your Liberty? :oops:

Seriously though, once you get used to shifting this transfer case it becomes second nature.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Jett wrote:

I’m of the opinion that any 4wd that can grenade from that scenario has either maintenance or inherent design flaws.

Or that it's been pushed too hard in situations it was never designed to endure.

Quote:

How would you ever do Moab with such a delicate system?

Define what you mean by 'do Moab' and 'delicate'. I've been there in stock Jeeps, modified Jeeps, and a lifted (but otherwise stock) Subaru Forester. Didn't have any breakage in any of the aforementioned vehicles, but I was also aware of their limitations and pushed their capabilities accordingly. Conversely, there were people there running rigs with D60s at each end and Atlas transfer cases in-between, and they were getting into much heavier stuff and pushing their vehicles way harder than I was; they were also seeing breakage.

The point I'm getting at is that there are things in the drivetrain with operating specs that, if exceeded or neglected, will cause the item in question to grenade. Drivetrain bind is a known way to accelerate and/or cause those failures. 4FT is a known way to circumvent them.

Quote:

And who hasn’t forgotten their gear and turned onto dry pavement. I’ve done it many times. Heck, I had a Tacoma who’s 4wd switch was the exact same shape and size as the hvac controls and right next to it. That truck got shifted into 4wd on the street a few times.

Absolutely. I once had to drive 175 miles from Casper, Wyoming to Cheyenne, Wyoming in falling snow with an NP231-equipped XJ. Didn't really have much choice: it was 4PT the whole way. However, that was a less-than-ideal scenario for that transfer case. 4FT would have been far preferable when I hit clearer patches of roadway, spots that had been worn down to the pavement, or turned off into, say, a truck stop - or just overall, really.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

casm wrote:

Jett wrote:

I’m of the opinion that any 4wd that can grenade from that scenario has either maintenance or inherent design flaws.

Or that it's been pushed too hard in situations it was never designed to endure.

Quote:

How would you ever do Moab with such a delicate system?

Define what you mean by 'do Moab' and 'delicate'. I've been there in stock Jeeps, modified Jeeps, and a lifted (but otherwise stock) Subaru Forester. Didn't have any breakage in any of the aforementioned vehicles, but I was also aware of their limitations and pushed their capabilities accordingly. Conversely, there were people there running rigs with D60s at each end and Atlas transfer cases in-between, and they were getting into much heavier stuff and pushing their vehicles way harder than I was; they were also seeing breakage.

The point I'm getting at is that there are things in the drivetrain with operating specs that, if exceeded or neglected, will cause the item in question to grenade. Drivetrain bind is a known way to accelerate and/or cause those failures. 4FT is a known way to circumvent them.

Quote:

And who hasn’t forgotten their gear and turned onto dry pavement. I’ve done it many times. Heck, I had a Tacoma who’s 4wd switch was the exact same shape and size as the hvac controls and right next to it. That truck got shifted into 4wd on the street a few times.

Absolutely. I once had to drive 175 miles from Casper, Wyoming to Cheyenne, Wyoming in falling snow with an NP231-equipped XJ. Didn't really have much choice: it was 4PT the whole way. However, that was a less-than-ideal scenario for that transfer case. 4FT would have been far preferable when I hit clearer patches of roadway, spots that had been worn down to the pavement, or turned off into, say, a truck stop - or just overall, really.

i define it as wheeling on smooth dry rock, not unlike dry pavement. I’ve never done it but from what I’ve seen of it being done, that is how they do it. Okay I’m wrong y’all are right the Jeep will grenade unless you use 4FT, which is clearly why they have included it and that was the true answer I sought in my initial question of what is 4FT for.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:59 am

Just saw this on FB, thought of you (Jett)
transfer case exploded.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/liberty ... &ref=notif

layback40 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:17 am

I currently have the part time 4wd light on when in 2wd. When it first happened I was changing out of Low4 to high2 & for some reason the PT4 light stayed on. As soon as I got back to the house (all dirt tracks) I jacked the front up & established that it was actually in high2. Checked all other settings & everything is just out by one on the lights on the dash.
Looks like the switch has slipped a notch.
Where is the switch? Near the leaver or in the t/f case?
Hoping its an easy job to correct.

Jett · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:07 am **Posts:** 250

WWDiesel wrote:

Just saw this on FB, thought of you (Jett)
transfer case exploded.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/liberty ... &ref=notif

Well that’s about as relevant as a picture of a challenger explosion. Better leave it in 2wd forever to be safe.

Rrusse11 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:35 am

layback,
It's on top of the transfer case. You might get away with a bit of grease on the plunger. Otherwise the easy way to replace it is to drop the case. I've been told that some have figgered out how to get it out with the case in place. With my recent tranny rebuild, it was a piece of cake with the case out of the car.
Good luck!

4wd modes when to use full time

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