Intercooler DOA

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:35 pm

No problem Danno.

Experience is the best teacher. Fortunately, I didn't do anything that would cause a major FUBAR/SNAFU.

I'm really getting aggrevated with my Liberty "eating" EGR valves. :evil:

The part is on the restricted list & sometimes it takes a week or more to get. That's what happened this past January when they ordered the one that's on now. It had to come all the way from Detroit.

I'll get in touch with the service advisor at the dealership to make an appointment for a confirmation diagnostic so they can order the new part. I may mention about cleaning out the lines too. I'm sure they can do a better job than me.

BTW, the "Ye Olde Owners Manual" states that 0W-40 is preferred, but if it isn't available, 5W-40 is exceptable.

Danno · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:07 am

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

bagger · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:42 am

Danno-What is the name of the dealer you go to? It's always good to know of other good dealers in the area just in case. I bought mine at Naperville Jeep and they have been good so far. Thanks

GreggD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:59 am

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Well, that's what they tell me anyway. There's a warehouse in the Atlanta area, & they have a lot of the parts in stock. The dealership usually has them the next day.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:15 am

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Actually Danno, you nailed it again. Only dissagree on one thing. I too paid a lot of good dough for this beast and just not going to tolerate this game with DC. Not the oil consumption, not the oil fouled CAC, not the chronic downtime failures. At least your dealer is willing to wrench on it and is able to get STAR to authorize repairs, mine won't or can't. In the end, this is way too much to pay for a maintenance pig.

GreggD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:41 am

RFCRD wrote:

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Actually Danno, you nailed it again. Only dissagree on one thing. I too paid a lot of good dough for this beast and just not going to tolerate this game with DC. Not the oil consumption, not the oil fouled CAC, not the chronic downtime failures. At least your dealer is willing to wrench on it and is able to get STAR to authorize repairs, mine won't or can't. In the end, this is way too much to pay for a maintenance pig.

I have a thought on something RFCRD: Maybe with all the maintenence headaches that DC is getting, maybe that's why they dropped the availability of the diesel engine after 2006. This was only the ramblings of a half awake guy whose body has not yet reached it's "caffeine saturation point" yet.

Sorry to hear that your dealer has attitude and or competency problems when it comes to customer problem resolution. After buying 10 vehicles in the past 5 years from the same dealer, mine treats me fairly well.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:58 pm

GreggD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Actually Danno, you nailed it again. Only dissagree on one thing. I too paid a lot of good dough for this beast and just not going to tolerate this game with DC. Not the oil consumption, not the oil fouled CAC, not the chronic downtime failures. At least your dealer is willing to wrench on it and is able to get STAR to authorize repairs, mine won't or can't. In the end, this is way too much to pay for a maintenance pig.

I have a thought on something RFCRD: Maybe with all the maintenence headaches that DC is getting, maybe that's why they dropped the availability of the diesel engine after 2006. This was only the ramblings of a half awake guy whose body has not yet reached it's "caffeine saturation point" yet.

Sorry to hear that your dealer has attitude and or competency problems when it comes to customer problem resolution. After buying 10 vehicles in the past 5 years from the same dealer, mine treats me fairly well.

I think we are on the same page. Just a do a little math. What does it cost to replace a couple of EGR's, a throttle body assy, stop the oil flow, possible turbo, replace or clean an intercooler and CAC hoses in the 36 month warranty period? Haven't even got to the $$$ tranny issues. This has got to be ugly on paper. All for mechanical performance DC is calling "normal" for the CRD. This has gone beyond a little minor tinkering to become a nuisance.

At one time I was as loyal a Chrysler customer as you could find for both personal and commercial fleet use. Had a few friends and family members burned over Caravan and Intrepid tranny issues in the mid '90's. Their situation and for myself 1 Toyota and 2 Chevys later, I have an entirely different attitude toward auto manufacturers and what I see with the CRD. Just thankful I didn't trade one of the Chevys to get the CRD.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:21 pm

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Actually Danno, you nailed it again. Only dissagree on one thing. I too paid a lot of good dough for this beast and just not going to tolerate this game with DC. Not the oil consumption, not the oil fouled CAC, not the chronic downtime failures. At least your dealer is willing to wrench on it and is able to get STAR to authorize repairs, mine won't or can't. In the end, this is way too much to pay for a maintenance pig.

I have a thought on something RFCRD: Maybe with all the maintenence headaches that DC is getting, maybe that's why they dropped the availability of the diesel engine after 2006. This was only the ramblings of a half awake guy whose body has not yet reached it's "caffeine saturation point" yet.

Sorry to hear that your dealer has attitude and or competency problems when it comes to customer problem resolution. After buying 10 vehicles in the past 5 years from the same dealer, mine treats me fairly well.

I think we are on the same page. Just a do a little math. What does it cost to replace a couple of EGR's, a throttle body assy, stop the oil flow, possible turbo, replace or clean an intercooler and CAC hoses in the 36 month warranty period? Haven't even got to the $$$ tranny issues. This has got to be ugly on paper. All for mechanical performance DC is calling "normal" for the CRD. This has gone beyond a little minor tinkering to become a nuisance.

At one time I was as loyal a Chrysler customer as you could find for both personal and commercial fleet use. Had a few friends and family members burned over Caravan and Intrepid tranny issues in the mid '90's. Their situation and for myself 1 Toyota and 2 Chevys later, I have an entirely different attitude toward auto manufacturers and what I see with the CRD. Just thankful I didn't trade one of the Chevys to get the CRD.

They did not end the '06 CRDs early because of lack of engine availabliity, that's for sure. That excuse was washed out when they stated late last year they could get as many engines as the public wanted. They could have produced until the end of the calendar year, but they rolled the last one off the line on May 20, 2006 and just killed it...

GreggD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:36 pm

alljeep wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Danno wrote:

Restricted list??? Thats a joke. This dealer seems to be really good with parts, EGRs are next day here. Could be because the parts warehouse is right in Chicago. Heck, they didnt even seem to question the intercooler replacement. It seems like the minute I call the dealer and tell them I pulled the 401 code there allready ordering the EGR. If 0w40 wasnt available I would have used 5w40 but on my way home from work theres like 5 wal marts so one of them is bound to have it. Yea let the dealer deal with it, you paid some good dough for this beast dont waste to much of your time on it.

Actually Danno, you nailed it again. Only dissagree on one thing. I too paid a lot of good dough for this beast and just not going to tolerate this game with DC. Not the oil consumption, not the oil fouled CAC, not the chronic downtime failures. At least your dealer is willing to wrench on it and is able to get STAR to authorize repairs, mine won't or can't. In the end, this is way too much to pay for a maintenance pig.

I have a thought on something RFCRD: Maybe with all the maintenence headaches that DC is getting, maybe that's why they dropped the availability of the diesel engine after 2006. This was only the ramblings of a half awake guy whose body has not yet reached it's "caffeine saturation point" yet.

Sorry to hear that your dealer has attitude and or competency problems when it comes to customer problem resolution. After buying 10 vehicles in the past 5 years from the same dealer, mine treats me fairly well.

I think we are on the same page. Just a do a little math. What does it cost to replace a couple of EGR's, a throttle body assy, stop the oil flow, possible turbo, replace or clean an intercooler and CAC hoses in the 36 month warranty period? Haven't even got to the $$$ tranny issues. This has got to be ugly on paper. All for mechanical performance DC is calling "normal" for the CRD. This has gone beyond a little minor tinkering to become a nuisance.

At one time I was as loyal a Chrysler customer as you could find for both personal and commercial fleet use. Had a few friends and family members burned over Caravan and Intrepid tranny issues in the mid '90's. Their situation and for myself 1 Toyota and 2 Chevys later, I have an entirely different attitude toward auto manufacturers and what I see with the CRD. Just thankful I didn't trade one of the Chevys to get the CRD.

They did not end the '06 CRDs early because of lack of engine availabliity, that's for sure. That excuse was washed out when they stated late last year they could get as many engines as the public wanted. They could have produced until the end of the calendar year, but they rolled the last one off the line on May 20, 2006 and just killed it...

I read somewhere on the forum that VM Mortori has an improved CCV valve on their commercial engines so there would be no oil spewing throughout the system causing all this trouble. One would think that the engine mfr would care a heck of a lot more about auto engines than the ones they're putting in generators, pumps, etc. It's a pity that Cummins didn't make the engine, but I think that they've been bought out by Ford, & couldn't because of the contract terms. The buy out is a rumor that I heard & I have no concrete evidence that this has actually happened.

I'm open for instruction on the removal of the intercooler for inspection and/or cleaning if anyone has that information they'd like to share.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:52 pm

GreggD wrote:

I'm open for instruction on the removal of the intercooler for inspection and/or cleaning if anyone has that information they'd like to share.

Was just looking at that yesterday. Looks like the upper core support unbolts and can be removed to gain access. Most likely have to drain the cooling system, remove the belt driven fan assy, remove the upper fan shroud, and remove the radiator to get the intercooler out. If you go at it from the front it gets messy unless you have the equipment to evacuate and refill the A/C.

valkraider · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:25 pm

GreggD wrote:

BTW, the "Ye Olde Owners Manual" states that 0W-40 is preferred, but if it isn't available, 5W-40 is exceptable.

Yes. The manual specs a minimum of CF rated oil. However, you want a CI-4 PLUS rated oil.

Here's why:

The API Service Ratings
info here:http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/API_MotorOilGuide_2004.pdf
info here: http://api-ec.api.org/printerformat.cfm?ContentID=99EAFC66-2882-41BB-84BCFB52B25D4CA3

specifically say:

API CI-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API CH-4, CG-4 and CF-4 and may be used in engines calling for those API Service Categories.

That clearly states that CI-4 rated oil meets and exceeds the specs for CF oil.

Now, the CRD is a HIGH PRESSURE turbocharged DIRECT INJECTION diesel engine with an EGR system.

The CF rating is for:
off-road, indirect- injected and other diesel engines including
those using fuel with over 0.5% weight sulfur.

The CRD is direct injected, and does not use high sulfur diesel.

The CI rating is:
For high-speed, four-stroke
engines designed to meet 2004 exhaust
emission standards implemented in 2002. CI-4
oils are formulated to sustain engine durability
where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used
and are intended for use with diesel fuels
ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight.

Additionally the service rating for CI states:

Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4,
and CH-4 oils. Some CI-4 oils may also qualify
for the CI-4 PLUS designation.

The CI-4 PLUS designation is "extra" to the CI-4 rating:
the “CI-4 PLUS” designation identi-
fies oils formulated to provide a higher level of protection against soot-related
viscosity increase and viscosity loss due to shear in diesel engines.category to maintain performance.

Shell Rotella T Synthetic, Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (or whatever it is called now), and Mobil Delvac 1 all are CI-4 PLUS rated, and not only may be used in place of the required CH rating as stated in the manual, they exceed the performance of the CH rated oils - and are specifically designed for the type of motor that the CRD is.

GreggD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:44 pm

Hi Valkraider,

I had planned to go to the heavier 5W-40 oil when my service contract is up. I use the Mobil 1 0W-40 Full Syn Truck/SUV oil not only to top off the CRD when needed, but also in my lawnmowers. It seems that they blow 10W-30 or straight 30W out too fast.

I had asked the dealer about the 5W-40 because of Georgia's climate. I could understand using 0W-40 if I were in a colder climate, but not here. I was told that they keep the 0W-40 on hand for the Chrysler Crossfires, & didn't want to keep but only the more frequently used oils on hand (5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc) Oh well, I asked.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:54 pm

GreggD wrote:

I read somewhere on the forum that VM Mortori has an improved CCV valve on their commercial engines so there would be no oil spewing throughout the system causing all this trouble. One would think that the engine mfr would care a heck of a lot more about auto engines than the ones they're putting in generators, pumps, etc.

Yep, take a close look at the photos on the VM Motori website. That's a Provent hanging on the side of one of those engines. There is some marketing psychology issues with a factory installed Provent. It's just way too messy to show the average consumer. Commercial equipment buyers are a different mindset, expect this kind of equipment. But hey, can't be any worse than then impression made by the oil spray when you blow-off a hose. :-)r

GreggD · **Posted:** Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:14 pm

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

I read somewhere on the forum that VM Mortori has an improved CCV valve on their commercial engines so there would be no oil spewing throughout the system causing all this trouble. One would think that the engine mfr would care a heck of a lot more about auto engines than the ones they're putting in generators, pumps, etc.

Yep, take a close look at the photos on the VM Motori website. That's a Provent hanging on the side of one of those engines. There is some marketing psychology issues with a factory installed Provent. It's just way too messy to show the average consumer. Commercial equipment buyers are a different mindset, expect this kind of equipment. But hey, can't be any worse than then impression made by the oil spray when you blow-off a hose. :-)r

Which one of the engines were you talking about? I went to the web site & actually found the exact engine that is in our Jeep Liberty, the R428 DOHC 4 cyl. 2.8 litre. Check out the RA630, 6 cyl. 3.0 litre.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:41 am

GreggD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

I read somewhere on the forum that VM Mortori has an improved CCV valve on their commercial engines so there would be no oil spewing throughout the system causing all this trouble. One would think that the engine mfr would care a heck of a lot more about auto engines than the ones they're putting in generators, pumps, etc.

Yep, take a close look at the photos on the VM Motori website. That's a Provent hanging on the side of one of those engines. There is some marketing psychology issues with a factory installed Provent. It's just way too messy to show the average consumer. Commercial equipment buyers are a different mindset, expect this kind of equipment. But hey, can't be any worse than then impression made by the oil spray when you blow-off a hose. :-)r

Which one of the engines were you talking about? I went to the web site & actually found the exact engine that is in our Jeep Liberty, the R428 DOHC 4 cyl. 2.8 litre. Check out the RA630, 6 cyl. 3.0 litre.

It's on the automotive engines. Need to download their automotive brochure PDF. Almost all show a Provent style device near the flywheel housing mounted just above the starter. Can even see the drain line plumbed into the pan on some. Never noticed this before, on our model (R428) appears to have a different "puck" style separator. Appears to be taller and looks like it has 2 chambers, maybe just the angle of the photo.

GreggD · **Posted:** Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:33 pm

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

GreggD wrote:

I read somewhere on the forum that VM Mortori has an improved CCV valve on their commercial engines so there would be no oil spewing throughout the system causing all this trouble. One would think that the engine mfr would care a heck of a lot more about auto engines than the ones they're putting in generators, pumps, etc.

Yep, take a close look at the photos on the VM Motori website. That's a Provent hanging on the side of one of those engines. There is some marketing psychology issues with a factory installed Provent. It's just way too messy to show the average consumer. Commercial equipment buyers are a different mindset, expect this kind of equipment. But hey, can't be any worse than then impression made by the oil spray when you blow-off a hose. :-)r

Which one of the engines were you talking about? I went to the web site & actually found the exact engine that is in our Jeep Liberty, the R428 DOHC 4 cyl. 2.8 litre. Check out the RA630, 6 cyl. 3.0 litre.

It's on the automotive engines. Need to download their automotive brochure PDF. Almost all show a Provent style device near the flywheel housing mounted just above the starter. Can even see the drain line plumbed into the pan on some. Never noticed this before, on our model (R428) appears to have a different "puck" style separator. Appears to be taller and looks like it has 2 chambers, maybe just the angle of the photo.

I downloaded that attachment showing the R428 DOHC. There are 8 pages in English & Italian. I can print them out to show the Service Manager & Advisor the lines I'm referring to that need to be checked for "gum-up-age". I made an appointment today to let them check things out tomorrow after I get off work. I promised that this was only going to be an exchange of information about what I've learned here on this forum. Everyone seems to be in agreement that this is definately got out of hand & a permanent resolution to the ongoing problems needs to occur ASAP. At least I know it's not the fuel causing the problem. I can't wait to check the crummy mileage all of us CRD owners are about to get with the new ULSD coming. I'd rather use 100% biodiesel. It's got zilch, zip, zero, nada in the way of sulfur.

skywarn · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:45 pm

Danno wrote:

Well CRD is in the shop again. EGR went right after I pulled out of the shop to get the EGR Mix Valve replaced.

So far, work done:
2 egr's(inlcuding now)
1 egr mix valve
1 intercooler
2 glow plugs
1 glow plug sensor
1 body control computer

I might be a little lost here... we have glow plugs?? I was told that the CRD has the new "Heating Grid" and no longer uses glow plugs is thst right? when i take my plastic cover off of the motor it says "warning! heated ceramic element. 5 volts" if so, how could you be charged for 2 glow plugs?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:52 pm

We have glow plugs. Ceramic ones. The salesman that told you about an intake grid thought he was selling a Cummins pickup. :lol:

skywarn · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:58 pm

ha ha!

well see i learned something today...

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:04 pm

Welcome to the group. I wasn't taking a shot at you. I went to three dealers before I bought my CRD. 2 out of the three told me stuff that was correct for the Dodge Pickups with Cummins, but wrong for the CRD.

Intercooler DOA

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