Have you checked out this fueling station map yet?
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiese ... fault.shtm
There are others as well. You might also want to do a simple yellow pages search for fueling stations in your area that carry it. Although Seattle is chock full of BD stations (even some with large green islands and multiple pumps!) I buy 600 gallons at a time so I can buy when prices are low. If I did not have ready access to BD in my area this bulk buying would be a requirement.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

If everyone Would just ignore the gorilla beating his chest and throwing feces, he will soon become bored and move to the back of the cage.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Hey Commando, have you seen this cool drag car? It is turning in some good times, runs on biodiesel and the owner cares about introducing alternative energy to the racing circuit. He wants to tinker in potential alternative energy solutions. When I was part of the Vehicle Research Institute at WWU in Washington I found out just how much racers tinkering with their cars serve as a form of real world R&D that many car companies watch carefully. Perhaps you can put some of the knowledge you have gained from racing to good use in alternative energy? I would bet money you have some good ideas. I promise you don't have to be "green" to be helpful.

Also, I fully understand if you are afraid to talk about alternative energy in front of your friends. Many people are frightened of being chastised by their buddies. Believe me, I understand this! When I show up at the snowmobiling parking lot with my biodiesel truck and during lunch I start talking about all the various new technologies that are being toyed with in our sport for alternate ways of powering our machines, I get many angry stares. But only when there is a group of us. Offline, they ask questions and show a real interest in solutions. But in the group setting, alternative energy just isn't cool.

Question: How do you see yourself in the larger scheme of things? Global warming is no longer controversial - but even if you refuse to acknowledge that fact you still have to contend with a serious energy problem that is detrimental to our country. So, as a good patriot, how do you see yourself contributing to helping dislodge our mouths from the Mid-east oil tit? Do you ignore the problem? Do you hope the government will step in and fix everything? Do you think market forces will put it all together automatically and do it right?
Or, are you like many, many people and feel the situation is hopeless so we might as well live it up while the ship goes down? I have several friends who feel this way - but at least they acknowledge their fears and insecurities.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

See, there you go. Nursie doesn't understand Nursie's own advice.

Gorilla? Possibly apt. Much more apt than KeighJeighs assupmtions at first. If you are referrring to someone with enough testorene to not be mistaken for Ms. Daisy, then you are dead on. In other words, a Jeeper.

KeighJeigh is cool to the good Nurse, even though he openly uses ethnic/cultural slurs? You are fine,with that but had I slurred him based on what I may believe his sexual preference might be, you would scream to high heaven. Heaven forbid he assumed I was black. The slur he would obviously use then is no less unacceptable than the one he did use, but I doubt the pair of you would allow that to go unchallenged.

Are we done here? Guess not

Geordi wondered about the damage I was doing to diesel owners' images. I now know what is hurting the image of Jeep owners, and why KJ's are considered to be so wimpy.

KeighJeigh, your ignorance is showing. That car competes in nothing. It is a demonstration vehcile. And the fact the he is burning CORRECTION: Hydrocarbons while sending mounds of barely burnt rubber into the air, and doing so for no reason other the show, it is somehow acceptable to your increasingly warped view?

EDIT: Where I am standing now was under a huge glacier a few thousand years ago. But it receded and we now get to around 100* each summer. What car contributed to that? Was it the -10,000 Jeep Uuuugh? Did man cause this? How about the lush jungles of Arizona. Do you still enjoy those? No? Hmmm. Must have been green house gasses. You see, the Earth is cyclical. We have been on a warming trened for centuries. And we are not going to stop it, start it, or do anything but go for the ride.

25 years ago the chicken littles who are screaming now were promising us we were entering a new ice age. Yep, they sure were dead on there! And the last two years we were promised more huge hurricanes hitting the U.S. I must have missed the news that night.

_________________
LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

Too true. Sorry, I lost my head there and made the mistake of making faces at the monkey.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussions

Geordi still can't comprehend. Go to bed Geordi. Although equally mistaken, you are not on Reflex or KeighJeighs level.

Done now?

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LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

http://www.cumminsracing.com/

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

What ARE you smoking? Whatever it is, can I have some? Seriously.

"Cultural slurs"? "Cool to the good nurse"? You think I'm a black man attracted to other men? Huh? My own grammar goes to hell in forums but I cannot make heads or tales of much of your commentary.

Yes, the car pictured above is demonstration car....and by golly what do you think it is demonstrating? Hint: Biodiesel.
If you want to argue about global warming then might I suggest some study in this area? Perhaps you argue with thousands scientists who have dedicated their lives to study of the subject? You have no training, no education and no experience in that area of study. Recognize that during your debate with researchers on this topic, you will come across to them in the same way a school boy would come across to you as he argued that race cars really do go faster if they are painted red with flames on them.

Just as I thought you were beginning to make sense, this last diatribe is beyond me.

So, in what way do you plan to contribute to our collective alternative energy future?
Did you really stop by this thread for more information about biodiesel or to participate in what has become a lively debate on alternative energy? Or were you simply looking for a place to direct your misplaced anger at Prius divers?

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

That is one serious tractor!

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Everyone needs to stop feeding the troll. I have no idea why he felt the need to crap on a productive discussion, but apparantly he did. I'm done responding, I invite you guys to do likewise.

Keigh - Where were we anyways?

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

InCommando, I don't think your a Beavis because of your politics, race, or sexual orientation. I think you are a Beavis because you are behaving like tool with diarrhea of the mouth.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

I have been watching this thread cause i am into the Biodiesel wave..... but that is not why i am posting... yes there might be some powerful Drag racers out there that are diesel powered but i don't think that is the area that people are looking to for advancements... i think they are looking more toward formula racing... and more specifically the Audi R10 and i think either BMW or Pugeot now has a diesel powered Formula car.

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Trevor

'05 Limited CRD Inferno Red Pearl Coat
Home made provent installed @ 35443, SEGR installed @ 35466, Fumoto valve @ 37500, trans and transfer case skid, In tank pump installed @ 43500, Suncoast TC & Transgo Shift Kit @ 44730, EGT, Boost, Trans temp gauges, Samco hoses, Rebuilt Trans w/ HD454RFE kit @ 56K, Inmotion Stage 2 @ 56K

Hi Inferrno,
The drag car stuff was part of a response to a series of odd commentary by another member. You can probably ignore the last few pages without much loss. I know I'm going to
To address your comment: I think you are correct. In general, racers are most interested in.....racing. However, there are a few intrepid individuals who are helping to create more acceptance of alternative fuels by introducing them into the racing circuits. In some cases this can lead to innovative technological advances for stock cars (more HP/better performance) and in other cases - such as the green biodiesel drag car I posted - it may serve to help Joe Sixpack come to terms with the fact that his world is on the brink of changing radically...and that it might not be such a scary, foreign thing to be involved in after all.....that perhaps good ole boys can still have fun even with differently powered toys.
Electric drag car:


Of course, if you REALLY want a fast car - something that will blow a Ferrari and Porsche completely out of the water for less money and go 125 miles per charge, you need an electric car like the X1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqqtJpfZElQ

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

I'm out of doggy biscuits.

We were discussing various strategies for the implementation of alternative energy sources. I believe using biodiesel in my CRD right now is a net benefit but not an answer to our energy crisis. I think you agree to some aspects of this. From what I understand, you are fully on the nuclear bandwagon. I on the other hand do not dismiss it but strongly believe we need to get our priorities straight and put most of our money into researching and perfecting the most sustainable, least dangerous, least polluting solutions. (ALL harvesting and using of energy is destructive to some degree)
Could you imagine what 1 trillion dollars and an open call for the brightest minds and inventors on the planet to come work in the U.S.A. could potentially net us in return? We could be the undeniable world leaders in this area exporting energy, energy production equipment, services and energy efficient, low polluting products. We could export all of this just like the royal families in the Middle East export oil to us.

BTW: I am using the 1 trillion dollar figure because that is the estimated amount of money we will spend on a certain controversial adventure we are now engaged in.....so I know we can afford it. It is just a matter of priority.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

That is exactly what is being proposed by Jay Inslee: http://www.house.gov/inslee/issues/ener ... o_new.html

Jay's a nice guy too, a friend of mine is one of his staffers and has been for years. One thing he is very big on with New Apollo is trying not to let it embed *specific* types of energy production, but instead creating a framework through which the best types of alternatives will thrive. That way proposals like ethanol go away as they are demonstrated to be useless, while other potential technologies become very apparant as solutions.

Here is the path I see in the short and long term -

In the short term we should do the following:

- Scale up Fischer-Tropsch diesel production(coal based diesel). This does nothing for the environment, and is a short term energy shortage solution, but the advantages it has are that a) it could get us off foreign oil thus removing the politics and war from the discussion by making us energy independent very quickly, and b) its a proven technology that has been used around the world since the 30's, we know it works and it requires no research investment, plus we have lots and lots of coal to fuel it

- Begin funding and construction of nuclear power. The plants take a long time to go into full operation, we should begin now. If an alternative breakthrough happens we'd simply scale back future plants, after all US energy demand only rises. Any eventual electric transportation solution is going to require a massive upgrade to our system. Mixed with this would be upgrading our distribution infrastructure(better shielded lines to reduce transmission losses) and a more regional focus on power production.

- Enact more enticements for people to conserve. Carrot and stick models would be best, buy a Hummer and get hit with a higher price per gallon perhaps. Rather than trying to force change on the car manufacturers(they only produce what people want to buy after all) simply make certain that when people buy gas they are paying its TOTAL cost, that includes environmental, war costs, etc. People would switch on their own, and manufacturers would see higher sales of more efficient vehicles without the ridiculousness that is CAFE. Same thing goes for appliances and other home energy usage, with HUD standards *finally* getting updated past the 70's to reflect newer home efficiency standards(ie: Why does HUD require every home to have a water heater specifically, which makes it illegal to sell a home with only a tankless water heating system despite how much more efficient they are?).

- The rebates and tax breaks for hybrid vehicles should apply to all vehicles, and go both directions. Buying a vehicle that gets exactly average fuel economy for its class/weight/size should have no penalty or bonus, but the more efficient a vehicle is in its class, the more of a tax break it should give the buyer, while the less fuel efficient it is vs. its class, the more of a tax penalty they should pay to buy it(either reflected in gas guzzler taxes or perhaps license/registeration fees). Once again, make the economics make sense and people will make the right decisions for themselves.

Long term goals should include the following:

- Enactment of the New Apollo Energy Project with full funding for a multitude of projects that show promise, much as DARPA does for technology with potential military purposes.

- Development of a incentive program to get rural areas to adopt personal wind and solar power, and for city dwellers to use solar where appropriate with net metering to reduce power drains. Also buisnesses should be using solar where it makes sense, such as roof tops and parking garages.

- Eventual replacement of fossil fuels via either advanced biofuels(algae/bacterial) or eventually electric cars based on advances in battery storage and power generation. This is likely a 50 year project due to existing vehicle infrastructure.

- Fully regenerative energy infrastructure with zero or near zero emissions impact. This is likely a 100 year project. Ideally it would include technologies to reverse human effects over the industrial era.

- Spreading such technology globally. 200 year time frame most likely.


Anyone care to fill in the blanks? Obviously I missed some steps...

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

You did miss the biggest and hardest step:

Removal of human stupidity from the process, via elimination of the "invisible hand" of the fossil fuel industries.
Eliminating political graft will be the hardest step, but once it is accomplished (and removing all the tax breaks and subsidies on oil will be a HUGE challenge) then the rest of the process should be almost easy.

The Apollo program worked because we had both a charismatic leader presenting the entire USA with a challenge, and a national sense of patriotism and pride in the USA and it's ability to kick arse wherever arse needed kicking.

Right after Sept 11, we had the patriotism, and buckets of it. Sadly, we didn't have the charismatic leader who would respond both to the attack AND the underlying causes. After going out and blowing up the Taliban, it would have been a GREAT time to show some leadership and starting a REAL push for energy independence for this country. It might have worked too. *sigh*

I recently read a book about "Peak Oil", the principal set forth by Hubbert in the 1950's, that once the majority of oil reserves were discovered and tapped into, there would come a time of peak production (in the US this was in 1980) that would never again be surpassed. The same principal applies to the depletion of other non-renewable resources, such as uranium. There are already 11 countries, including France, which require uranium to fuel nuclear power plants, but have totally depleted their own uranium reserves. The US is the worlds' largest user of uranium, and we import about 84% (mostly from Russia) of the uranium that we use. This link is pretty informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_urani ... F.3F.3F.3F

Note that we are more dependent on foreign nations for uranium (84%) than we are for oil (65%).

I believe that nuclear power as we know it (fission reactor powered Rankine cycle) has all of the financial, geopolitical, and environmental problems as petroleum, and more (terrorists getting access to spent fuel rods, etc). Many analysts predict that world reserves of uranium will be depleted around 2035. There will be an exponential rise in the cost of uranium as world reserves near depletion. Other sources of uranium, such as extraction from seawater, have not been found to be feasible on a commercial scale.


I believe that decentralized production of renewable energy (utilizing solar, landfill gas, wind, hydro, geothermal, and ocean power) is the best course for the future.

I found that petroleum diesel has an energy ratio of -0.8 (there is only 0.8 gallon of petro diesel produced for every one gallon used to power drilling equipment, pumps, and transportation- ships, trucks, etc). Biodiesel has an energy ratio of +3.2-3.5 (this includes all energy inputs for farming, production, and transport). The net gain is possible because solar energy is converted and stored by soybean (or other) plants producing the oil.

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD

Minister Lindsey Williams shared suppressed knowledge regarding oil companies and their supplies that he said he learned of as a chaplain to Alaskan oil pipeline workers in the 1970s. During this time, he was invited to join a meeting of the top oil company officials, where it was announced they had just discovered the largest oil pool in North America (and possibly the world). The location, under Gull Island, in the waters of Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, would provide more than enough oil and natural gas for the next 200 years, Williams was reportedly told.

Yet, the day after the meeting, he was informed that the discovery was "classified," and he later learned that oil companies weren't going to announce the new supply until the price of oil had reached $150 a barrel.

Williams said he also found out that crude oil was chosen in the early 1960s as a "method of control," and by having it sold in US currency it helped pay off America's national debt. The fact that oil is not currently being sold in dollars by many countries has contributed to the decline in value of the dollar, he noted, and may pave the way for the 'Amero,' the supposed currency of a North American Union.

http://www.lwoil.com/

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Very entertaining thread. I get a chuckle out of it every time I read it.

I tend to be a moderate when it comes to energy use. I don't believe the so called "tree huggers" are right, nor do I believe the people who ignore the issue are right. There is a happy medium somewhere.

While some might disagree, Commando is 100% right when he talks about global warming being cyclical. There is scientific evidence of this. There have been ice ages followed by warming trends for millions of years. Long before anyone was making plastic, burning fossil fuels, or creating nuclear waste. That's just a FACT. I've seen the reports of temperature increase, and I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I just don't believe it's all man made. Some of it is natural. Are we contributing? Quite possibly. Al Gore lives about 6 miles from me, maybe I'll go ask him. LOL!

I don't drive a diesel because I am trying to save the planet one gallon at a time. I drive one because it meets my needs. If a soot spewing huge truck met my needs, I'd be driving one of them. Now, I'm not going to go by a big rig to tow my 2000lb trailer. That's wasteful. I like diesel because of the torque. I like biodiesel because my research indicates is a superior fuel. Cleaner burning, better lubricity, non-toxic, and a renewable resource. Sure wish more of it was available. No question my tailpipe smells much better burning bio than it does petro.

I also use compact florescent bulbs. Yes, they save energy, but they also last a LOT longer than standard bulbs and they don't get as hot so I'm not wiping sweat off my face when I'm standing in front of the mirror. So while I am being "green", I'm not doing it to save the planet, I'm doing it because it meets my needs.

Most people are like me. They will save energy if it fits comfortably in their lives. If there is going to be a viable energy solution, it is going to have to be a better deal for the consumer. Not more expensive. Not hard to use. Not a pain in the butt. It has to give consumers more for less. That's how people work. Everyone wants a good deal. Some will embrace "green" technologies because it's the right thing to do, but most will keep on using what works for them until something better and cheaper comes along or they are forced to buy the cleaner alternative.

Of course, "forcing" people opens up another can of worms that is WAY off this topic.

As long as we are talking about racing....this car has won LOTS of races.

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Chad Hargis
Nashville, TN
2008 Grand Cherokee CRD
2005 Liberty CRD *SOLD*

Chad - No one disputes that there have been cooling and warming cycles caused by nature. However just because nature can cause them naturally does not mean man cannot as well. If we recreate the conditions that have happened naturally in the past, why would we not expect the same result? The even larger issue is the speed at which it is occurring, which is far far faster than it ever happened in past cycles, resulting in a large portion of species not having the time to adapt generationally as they did to past climate shifts. BTW, I'm an Al Gore hater, but just because he and many of his supporters have a poor understanding of the science, does not mean that there is not solid science supporting this, only that their fanatacism causes them to come to ridiculous conclusions to support their cause.

schlosserj - Peak Oil is not a credible theory. For one, the oil shale and tar sands alone have far more oil in them than the entire middle east. It simply has not been economically viable to harvest them. As prices rise it becomes more economically viable, and production will increase, which in turn increases supply. There are other sources besides those as well, plus the fact that coal can be fairly easily converted. We are in no real danger of running out, we are simply going to have to learn to live with higher prices.

dieselenthusiast - The minister you refer to is considered by most to be a crackpot, and the North American Union garbage is conspiracy theory bunk. People can always come up with a plausible sounding conspiracy when they begin with the conclusions they want and then seek the evidence to 'confirm' it. Its called confirmation bias and its a well understand psychological phenomenon.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD