ARP head studs

DocB · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:43 am

"bubbles and all kinda air pushing out"?

Hell, the cap almost took my hand off 3 days ago. On a stone cold (20*F) morning before start up.

I am presently working with my dealership on this as I have had disappearing coolant.
I am still under extended warranty and would like this fixed before it ends, which is soon.

Twice I have asked to check the head gasket, but both times was told it was something else.

I kind of don't like where this is headed, and would like to curtail an unpleasant future situation.

Any suggestions?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:36 am

Have you asked the dealer to diagnose which compass point the sun will rise in tomorrow? They should get it right 1 out of 4 attempts....

Obviously I wouldn't trust the stealerships to properly deliver on a ham sandwich request. Asking them to 'check' the head gasket is comical, they will replace everything else on the vehicle (including blaming things like the paint color - true story) before admitting that the customer might know more about a vehicle than they do.

If you truly want them to do the work, you will have to keep after them. You are a braver man than I am however - There are MANY MANY things that have to be disconnected to replace the head gasket, and you are trusting the dealer monkeys to get all of those things put back in their proper places after the job is over.

There shouldn't be any pressure under a cold cap however. The max pressure normally on a HOT engine and a HOT day should never exceed 16 lbs anyway, but on this design and this cool-running engine, it shouldn't ever have even half that much pressure. You have a serious problem with the head gasket if you are losing coolant and have combustion gasses forcing their way into the coolant.

Maybe you can obtain a simple 'combustion gas tester' for the coolant (I think they might be paper test strips?) and use that on the dealer to force the issue. They should have done a test on the coolant already, it is a simple enough test - dip / sample the fluid, if combustion properties (exhaust) is present... Head gasket is most likely suspect.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:42 am

Read this page on the Ford Diesel page:

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-mo ... -test.html

People are talking about exactly the same types of symptoms. Apparently, there is a coolant test kit available at your parts places that involves some special fluid and a small vacuum bulb. You draw air from the coolant bottle into the tester, and the fluid changes color if it detects combustion gas.

Good luck.

DocB · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:51 am

Thank you for the validation of a quick test using the combustion tester strips on the coolant.
I knew there was something like this available, so I will look for and pick some up tomorrow.
If positive, this would be some good ammo to have in my favor to force the issue, if necessary.

I will continue to work this out and keep you posted.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:37 am

DocB wrote:

Question:ow much pressure should there be under the overflow coolant cap from dead cold?

Especially on a very cold (20*F) engine?

No pressure, zero, Doc you need to call Chrysler customer care and let them deal with the dealer.

Open a case immediately..... the dealer doesn't want to deal with your headache because Chrysler will not pay them as much as they would like and is waiting for the warranty to expire.

Customer care will help you, but you need to be firm with them at the beginning and let them know that you are not happy with the way you are being treated.

If you can get the head gasket test kit yourself and perform the test yourself or have a garage do it for you, then bring the visible results to the dealer and also take pictures of the results and send them to customer care right away, you may be able to speed the process along

Tell the dealer and customer care that you have proof that combustion gases are entering the cooling system and want the issue fixed under the extended warranty program immediately.

Customer care will at first try to brush you off.......but that is when you will become a pest, asking for a manager and supervisors to take your case on instead, until they assign a customer care representative to your case that will become your advocate when dealing with the dealer.

I lived this same experience with Cus.Care when I had to deal with my transmission problems last year and the they helped me greatly.

DocB · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:08 am

Thanks for the in-depth, excellent advice.
Will do test strips today.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:09 pm

DocB wrote:

Thanks for the in-depth, excellent advice.
Will do test strips today.

I don't know how well the test strips will work. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the test strips you will be using are made to easily detect exhaust gases from a gasoline / petrol engine.

The amount of exhaust gases that our diesel creates is not easily detected using any HG leak detector. I had a shop search for the combustion gases using a machine with a steel wand and it didn't detect it. The little amount of exhaust gases don't register on the kit and for this reason it makes it difficult for a standard Gasoline engine head gasket leak detector to verify that the head gasket is leaking.

What I used was the "Lisle Combustion Leak Detector - model #75500" and it too was a little faint in confirming the HG leak but the color did change to a faint green confirming a leak.

Racer

flman · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:36 pm

racertracer wrote:

DocB wrote:

Thanks for the in-depth, excellent advice.
Will do test strips today.

I don't know how well the test strips will work. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the test strips you will be using are made to easily detect exhaust gases from a gasoline / petrol engine.

The amount of exhaust gases that our diesel creates is not easily detected using any HG leak detector. I had a shop search for the combustion gases using a machine with a steel wand and it didn't detect it. The little amount of exhaust gases don't register on the kit and for this reason it makes it difficult for a standard Gasoline engine head gasket leak detector to verify that the head gasket is leaking.

What I used was the "Lisle Combustion Leak Detector - model #75500" and it too was a little faint in confirming the HG leak but the color did change to a faint green confirming a leak.

Racer

I got the same kit, but I never bothered to use it, my HG leak was obvious.

Here is the diesel test fluid http://www.tooldesk.com/automotive/LIS7 ... Lisle.aspx

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:26 pm

Racer, I didn't think your leak was that obvious. Doc's leak seems to be developing such an amount of pressure, that it shouldn't be hard to detect the gasses - He might be able to smell them with just his nose if it is this big a leak.

I'd be concerned about the amount of pressure being developed, possibly causing damage / burst hoses. The cap is designed to withstand 16psi, but I don't think it can vent enough pressure quickly enough if presented with much more. The normal engine compression without combustion should be in the 400+ PSI range, so even a small leak could easily cause pressure releases from the cap / overflow tube.

Maybe Doc needs to just put a temp bypass tube onto the overflow outlet from the radiator bottle and listen for air escaping?

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:47 pm

geordi wrote:

Racer, I didn't think your leak was that obvious.

My leak was very obvious..... it almost blew my arm off from the pressure when I twist opened the coolant bottle cap.

The diesel gases are weak and almost undetectable, as many others members here have confirmed.

In order to make that blue fluid change color to green you need to hold the bottle top on the coolant bottle for 15 minutes straight without moving your hand so that enough of the gases are trapped in the vial and the fluid changes color to green.

DocB · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:59 am

Picked up a "Block Tester Kit" today at NAPA.
Directions say that the blue liquid will turn yellow with gasoline engines and yellowish-green with diesels.
It was a real nasty day today here in the NE with the snow and ice. Don't need to go to the gym tonight.
I will test it tomorrow and report back.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 am

DocB wrote:

Picked up a "Block Tester Kit" today at NAPA.
Directions say that the blue liquid will turn yellow with gasoline engines and yellowish-green with diesels.
It was a real nasty day today here in the NE with the snow and ice. Don't need to go to the gym tonight.
I will test it tomorrow and report back.

Hate to tell you this Doc, but it you open the rad cap and find pressure on a cold engine, you can bet the kit will be changing color. Only one place that can develop enough pressure to leak in one direction and not back out is compression.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:34 am

Regarding contacting customer care:

The sooner you get them involved using your extended warranty, the better off you will be.

The dealership will begin to treat you with respect once they know that customer care is on the case, and that is when the work to your vehicle will begin.

By just bringing proof of the head gasket leak without contacting customer care first will not motivate them, the proof and the use of the following words "I contacted customer care and I have an open case on this issue" will suddenly open doors.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:53 pm

flman wrote:

dthdcrd wrote:

Well, I am back at it. I did the ARP stud replacement only back in June and it did not hold up. My issue (pressure when I remove the cap and coolant in the overflow) has gotten worse. I now have fluctuating heat and the coolant pushes into the overflow much easier, not just while towing anymore. I regret not having done the entire job while do the studs considering I was so far into it. Water under the bridge now. It will only go faster this time around (in theory) Looking to start early Sat morning, I'll see if I can finish up in a day, if not I have sun open as well.

Wow, I am glad I went all the way, btw were the OE head bolts even loose when you removed them? I only had 1 bolt that was slightly loose and it was no where near the HG leak.

Has any one had success with HG leak symptoms and ARP studs?

Me, for one.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:03 pm

DocB wrote:

"bubbles and all kinda air pushing out"?

Hell, the cap almost took my hand off 3 days ago. On a stone cold (20*F) morning before start up. I am presently working with my dealership on this as I have had disappearing coolant. I am still under extended warranty and would like this fixed before it ends, which is soon. Twice I have asked to check the head gasket, but both times was told it was something else. I kind of don't like where this is headed, and would like to curtail an unpleasant future situation.
Any suggestions?

Doc, you either have a bad HG with or without warped head, or a cracked head, and I'd bet on the HG, as a cracked head usually bleeds off pressure. Geordi and RacerTracer have given excellent advice regarding dealing with the stealers. Keep in mind that you will end up with the same design that failed once already....... I would suggest replacing the bolts with studs once the stealer does whatever they do.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:36 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

flman wrote:

dthdcrd wrote:

Well, I am back at it. I did the ARP stud replacement only back in June and it did not hold up. My issue (pressure when I remove the cap and coolant in the overflow) has gotten worse. I now have fluctuating heat and the coolant pushes into the overflow much easier, not just while towing anymore. I regret not having done the entire job while do the studs considering I was so far into it. Water under the bridge now. It will only go faster this time around (in theory) Looking to start early Sat morning, I'll see if I can finish up in a day, if not I have sun open as well.

Wow, I am glad I went all the way, btw were the OE head bolts even loose when you removed them? I only had 1 bolt that was slightly loose and it was no where near the HG leak.

Has any one had success with HG leak symptoms and ARP studs?

Me, for one.

You are the only one I know of so far. I guess you caught it in time?

DocB · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:52 am

A picture is worth a thousand words. We'll see what they have to say tomorrow. Thank you all for your very timely help.
BTW-It was a very simple test to perform. I'm bringing that tester tube with me.

flman · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:59 am

DocB wrote:

A picture is worth a thousand words. We'll see what they have to say tomorrow. Thank you all for your very timely help.
BTW-It was a very simple test to perform. I'm bringing that tester tube with me.

Yup, you nailed it, good luck with the warranty.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 am

No arguing with those results. Good luck with the dealer fools.

bugnout · **Posted:** Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:07 pm

DocB wrote:

A picture is worth a thousand words. We'll see what they have to say tomorrow. Thank you all for your very timely help.
BTW-It was a very simple test to perform. I'm bringing that tester tube with me.

What exactly does this picture show? bubble in the coolant?

ARP head studs

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